If your not - start a thread on Paul. I'll meet you there.
But be prepared to be schooled!
Fair warning,
Paul may technically considered a Apostle to the Gentiles as in "messenger" But no way is he an Apostle in the same way the 12 are, Nor does he meet the qualifications the 12 Apostles defined as requirements of a Apostle.
Proceed at your own risk.
End quote
I know you are Messianic.. I know you keep the feast when we discussed it once when you was in here as Sadlup. (I prefer that username by the way , it suits your style and personality- love it!)
I am having a parallel discussion with another member on another thread simutaneously...so here is what I posted tonight.
The question presented to me was as follows:
"If Paul was teaching against the keeping of Torah why would he take part in any sacrifice, or take a vow that has it's roots in the Torah? "
Paul circumcised Timothy so that both of them would be received and be heard since Jews and Gentiles were not to co-mingle as the law forbid it and Timothy was a Greek. . It was necessary even though circumcision was not applicable at that time post cross. It was all about evangelizing the masses.
The Jerusalem brethren explained to Paul that thousands of Jews had “believed,” i.e., they had been converted to Christ.
Though these multitudes had become Christians, they had not arrived at the full realization that the introduction of Christianity made the law of Moses inoperative as a redemptive system. Accordingly, these new Christians still circumcised their children (as a covenant sign), and they observed many of the “customs” of the Mosaic regime.
Here was the problem: a report had been circulated widely that Paul went about constantly teaching that Jews, especially those who lived in Gentile lands, should “forsake,” (apostasia –. “apostasy”) Moses. “Moses” stands for the Old Testament economy. They apparently had concluded that Paul opposed any sort of connection with the Hebrew system, which was not true.
The Jewish antagonists were bound to hear that Paul was in Jerusalem, and there would be trouble. The following solution, therefore, was proposed. There were four Hebrew men who had placed themselves under a vow (likely a Nazarite vow). It was near the time for that ritual to be consummated by a purification ceremony in the temple. It was suggested, therefore, that Paul identify with them, paying their temple fees, and, “purifying” himself along with them. Such a procedure was allowed under the law. This would be done so that the Jews in general might see that Paul was “walking orderly, observing the law.” Gentiles, of course, were under no such constraints, as indeed the conference in Jerusalem had established
Not only were the four “purified,” but so was Paul—though likely not for the same reason. There is no evidence that the apostle was under a vow. However, since he recently had been in Gentile territory, he would be viewed as ceremonially “unclean,” hence would need to purify himself in order to partake with the others.
Paul’s teaching on the abolition of the law had been clear and definitive ( 2 Cor. 3; Rom. 7; Gal. 5).
I don't believe that the word "satanic" is found anywhere in the Holy Bible. What we do have are various descriptions of a defeated foe and various tactics he uses.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
He's an accuser. His tactic is to divide.
Mar 3:25-27 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
However he is a defeated foe:
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Deut 28:44 And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:
He is the tail and he strikes the heel.
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Our rejoicing is not dependent in what Satan is or isn't doing, but rather who we are in Christ.
Luke 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
You are exalted by God and it has nothing to do with Satan, his tactics, or believing something is "satanic."
Eph 2:4-6 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Satan has no place with believers.
Eph 4:26-27 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to the devil.
If something is of Satan or deserving or being called Satanic, then better to let those ideas exist in his realm where he can worry about them. We should live in victory instead.
Rom 8:37-39 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Personally, I believe people attribute too much to Satan. Sure, he can be dangerous, but in what circumstance? The Bible tells us, resist him and he will flee.
James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
In the Bible, one of the most well known appearances of Satan is when he went after Job. He was all big and bad in the beginning of the book. Job persevered and was blessed in multiples. Where was Satan at the end of the book of Job? Nowhere! As the Bible tells us, he will flee.
Prophetic, I'm going to do this for you to prove something to TOTH.
(see, not even being sneaky).
You write:
"Chuckles quote:
"According to Orthodox Judaism, **SACRIFICES NEVER FORGIVE SIN**"???."
Then you post a plethora of Scripture verses.
The problem is, it's true and I CAN PROVE IT.
Let's say there is a man who fancies his neighbors wife. He has sex with her once a week the day her husband leaves town. Because he is rich, he can afford to sacrifice a lamb or goat once a week on Friday before sundown. He figures the sex is worth the price of a sacrifice.
Prophetic, if as you say sacrifice forgives sin. Was this man forgiven by God?
"13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all>>> trespasses<<<; 14 blotting out the>>>> handwriting of ordinances<<<< that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 and having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."
----------------------------------------------
I'm assuming you have no idea what a can of worms this passage is?
Who is the audience?
It can't be gentile Gentiles. Really the only option is the lost sheep Israelites from the Northern tribes who have become Gentiles.
End quote
As we are united with Y'shua in death, we also are united with him in the resurrection . Y'shua said "I am the Resurrection and the life..."
Paul .. preached to the gentiles , so the fullness of the gentiles came in under him who was called to evangelize the masses. The gentiles were grafted in. Now there is neither Jew nor Greek but all one is Christ.
No the gentiles didn't have the jewish Mosaic law . As Paul states,
The Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves.
Paul is describing Gentiles who naturally keep the law. This, of course, could not be the Mosaic law, but would be the natural sense of right and wrong that God has embedded into the conscience of people generally
The handwriting in your question was the ceremonial law with the hand of Moshe.
"Paul's advice should stand or fall on its own, rather than being declared words from the lips of God and therefore "New Commandments."
"Paul's advice is not a New Commandment from God."
"Who made Paul's words into God's word for all churches for all time????"
"You have no Scriptural support to back your assertion that Paul can impose (new) Commandments as Moses and Jesus."
"Who gave Paul equal authority with Moses and Jesus to write new commandments?"
Neither Moses or Paul had the authority to make new commandments!!
2 Peter 1:20-21: Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit!
God the Father inspired the 32 writers of the OT to write what He wanted them to write. Just as God the Father gave Jesus all authority in the New and better Covenant of faith and love.
John 16:12-15: Jesus says, "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear . But when he, the Spirit of Truth comes he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own, he will speak only what he hears, an he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify Me because it is **FROM ME** THAT HE WILL RECEIVE WHAT HE WILL MAKE KNOWN TO YOU**! All that belongs to the Father is Mine. That is why I said the Spirit will **RECEIVE FROM ME** what he will make known to you.
Hebrews 12:2: Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the **AUTHOR** and **PERFECTOR** OF OUR FAITH**!!**!!
Matthew 28:18-20: ! Therefore Jesus says, "**ALL AUTHORITY** in heaven and earth has been given to **ME**! Therefore go and make disciples of all nations... Teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU**{The entire New Testament}. And surely I am with you always to the very end of the age.
And so Jesus told the Holy Spirit what he should inspire the 8 writers of the New and better Covenant to write which included about 400 New Covenant commandments all inspired by Jesus!!!
We know that Paul was martyred by orders of Nero Caesar in December of AD 66 and we know that Paul was inspired to write 2 Timothy the last of his 14 inspired books just before he ascended into heaven because of 2 Timothy 4:6-8: Paul said, "For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time for my departure is near. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race. I have kept the faith. Now there is in store for me the Crown of Righteousness1
All the other books of the New Testament except Revelation were written between AD 42 and AD 62 and had been distributed to most of the churches in the Roman Empire And so 2 Timothy 3:16: 4:1-3 included all the books of the Bible except Revelation:
2 Timothy 3:15; 4:1-3: All Scripture is **GOD-BREATHED** and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus {The Author of the NT}, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of His appearing and His Kingdom, I give you this charge: **PREACH THE WORD** {The **ENTIRE NEW TESTAMENT} Be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when people {Like Sadlup, ADAM7777 an Chuckles} will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires , they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear!
And in AD 96 Jesus added the book of Revelation to the New Testament:
Revelation 22:16,18,19: I, Jesus, have sent My angel to give you this testimony **FOR THE CHURCHES**!... I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone {Like Chuckles}**ADDS* anything to them, God will *ADD* to that person the plagues described in this book {Which will include eternal torment in hell as per Rev 14:9-11}. And if anyone**TAKES WORDS AWAY** { Like the Preterists and Chuckles} from this book of prophecy, God will **TAKE AWAY** from that person any share in the Tree of Life and in the Holy City {The ETERNAL **NEW JERUSALEM**} which are described in this book!!
Peter 1:23-25: You have been **BORN AGAIN THROUGH THE LIVING AND ENDURING **WORD OF GOD**!! All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field, the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the **WORD OF THE LORD STANDS FOREVER**. And this is the **WORD** that was preached to you.
Matthew 24:35: Jesus says, Heaven and earth will pass away, but **MY WORDS WILL NEVER PASS AWAY**!"
Colossians 3:16: Let the **WORD OF CHRIST** dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom!
What did Jesus and the Word of God say about the Apostle Paul in Acts and in 2 Peter 3:15-16??
Acts 22:24:15: Ananias said to Paul, "The God of our ancestors has **CHOSEN YOU** to **KNOW HIS WILL** and to see the Righteous One and **TO HEAR WORDS FROM HIS MOUTH**. **YOU WILL BE HIS WITNESS TO ALL PEOPLE** of what you have seen and heard.
Acts 26:16-18: The Lord Jesus said to Paul, "Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you and **APPOINTED YOU** AS A SERVANT AND AS A WITNESS OF WHAT YOU HAVE SEEN AND WILL SEE OF ME**! I am sending you to the Gentiles to open their eyes and turn then from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they my receive **FORGIVENESS OF SINS** and a place among those who **SANCTIFIED BY FAITH IN ME**!"
Acts 9:15: The Lord Jesus said to Ananias, "This man {PAUL} is **MY CHOSEN INSTRUMENT**to proclaim My name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel!"
Acts 20:27: Paul said, "For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the **WHOLE WILL OF GOD**!"
chuckles like Satan claims the above 4 Scriptures that God inspired Luke to write are lies, thus making God a liar. These are definitely unpardonable sins which will earn chuckles eternal torment in hell.
2 Peter 3:15,16: Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our **DEAR BROTHER PAUL ALSO WROTE WITH THE WISDOM THAT GOD GAVE HIM**! He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand {For the Lost}. which IGNORANT AND UNSTABLE PEOPLE DISTORT, {Like Chuckles} as they do other Scriptures to **THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION**!{Which would be eternal torment in hell}
John 12:48: Jesus says, "There is a Judge for the one {Like Chuckles} who does not accept My words, the very words I have spoken {In Acts 9:15 & Acts 26:16-18 above} will condemn them at the Last Day!"
Galatians 6:2: **FULFILL THE LAW OF CHRIST**!!
Hebrews 12:2: Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the **AUTHOR** AND **PERFECTER** OF OUR FAITH**!
**SALVATION IS 100% FREE WHILE ETERNAL HEAVENLY REWARDS ARE 100% EARNED**!!
Chuckles and Satan teach that we are saved by our **GOOD WORKS** and keeping OT Laws??
**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??
**SALVATION IS 100% FREE**
Titus 3:3,4: At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. But when the kindness and **LOVE** of God our Savior appeared , He saved us, **NOT BECAUSE OF RIGHTEOUS THINGS WE HAD DONE**, but because of **HIS MERCY**!!
John 1:12,13: To all who received Him, to those who believed in His name, he gave the right to become children of God--children born not of natural descent, **NOR OF A HUMAN DECISION** or a husband's will but, **BORN OF GOD**!!
John 6:37,39,44,65: Jesus says, "**ALL** that the Father gives Me **WILL** come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will **NEVER** drive away... And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall **LOSE NONE** of all that He has given Me, but raise them up at the Last Day.... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father who sent Me **DRAWS HIM**, and I will raise him up at the Last Day!!... No one can come to Me **UNLESS** the Father has **ENABLED THEM**!!"
Ephesians 2:8,9: For it is by **GRACE** you have been saved, through **FAITH**—and this **NOT FROM YOURSELVES**, it is the **GIFT OF GOD**—not by works. So that no one can boast. For we are **GOD'S WORKMANSHIP**, created in Christ Jesus to do **GOOD WORKS**, which God prepared in advance for us to do!
Romans 12:3: For by the **GRACE GIVEN ME** I say to every one of you. Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourselves with sober judgment, in accordance with the **FAITH GOD HAS DISTRIBUTED TO EACH OF YOU**... We have different gifts, according to the **GRACE GIVEN TO EACH OF US**!!
Romans 9:15,16,18: God says, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God's mercy...Therefore God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden. {But God's saints still preach God's Word to everyone}
John 15:16: Jesus says, You did not choose Me, but I **CHOSE YOU**and appointed you so that you might bear **FRUIT**--**FRUIT** that will last!!
Matthew 22:14: Jesus says, "MANY ARE INVITED**, but few are **CHOSEN**!"
Mar 13:20: Jesus says, "If the Lord had not cut short those days, no on would survive, but for the sake of the **ELECT**, whom He has **CHOSEN, He has shortened them!"
{The Lord has shortened the Great Tribulation from 3 1/2 years or 1278 days to 1260 days}
John 13:18: Jesus says, "I am not referring to all of you, I know those I have **CHOSEN**!
Ephesians 1:4-8; 11,12: In love He **PREDESTINED** us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with His pleasure and will--to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the One He loves, In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding... In Him we were also **CHOSEN**, having been **PREDESTINED** in accordance to the plan of Him who works out everything in conformity to the purpose of His will, in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be to the **PRAISE OF HIS GLORY**!!
I Thessalonians 1:4: For we know, brothers loved by God, that He has **CHOSEN YOU**, because our Gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction!
I Peter 2:9: But you are a **CHOSEN PEOPLE**, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession, that you might declare the praise of Him who **CALLED YOU** out of darkness into His wonderful light!!
Revelation 17:14: They will make war against the **LAMB** but the **LAMB** will overcome them because He is **LORD** of lords and **KING** of kings and with Him will be His **CALLED** **CHOSEN** and **FAITHFUL** followers!! {Riding on white horses right after the Marriage Feast of the **LAMB** as per Revelation 19:7-20!}
Romans 6:23: The wages of sin is death, but the **GIFT OF GOD** is **ETERNAL LIFE**!
God's Word clearly teaches that faith, salvation, the Holy Spirit and eternal life are all 100 percent **FREE GIFTS OF GOD** and that the two main incentives for doing good works is being thankful to God for these amazing **FREE GIFTS** and to **EARN HEAVENLY ETERNAL REWARDS** which God has promised His chosen saints for faithful and loving service. Whereas those who believe in **SINLESS PERFECTION** believe that we have to earn our salvation and eternal life by doing **GOOD WORKS** and being **SINLESS** and that the only eternal reward is gaining eternal life by what we do; and if we commit even one small sin after we are saved we will loose our salvation and eternal life. And so man and not God becomes the Author and Finisher of our salvation.
**AND SO SALVATION IS 100 PERCENT **FREE** but **ETERNAL REWARDS** are 100 percent **EARNED**!!
Ephesians 6:8: Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, because you know that the Lord will **REWARD** everyone for what ever good he does!
Revelation 22:12 Jesus says, “Behold I am coming soon! My **REWARD** is with Me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done!”
Matthew 16:27: Jesus says, “The Son of Man is going to come in His Father's glory with His angels and **THEN** He will **REWARD** each person according to what he has done!”
Luke 11:33,34: Jesus says, "Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a **TREASURE** IN HEAVEN** that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. For where your **TREASURE** is, there your **HEART** will be also!"
Luke 14:13,14: Jesus says, "When you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be **BLESSED**. Although they cannot repay you you will be **REPAID AT THE RESURRECTION** of the righteous!"
2 Corinthians 5:9,10: We make it our goal to please Him... for we must all appear before the Judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
1 Corinthians 3:13-15: His work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his **REWARD**. If it is burned up he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
How to Win Heavenly CROWNS:
I Corinthians 9:24-27: Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. Everyone who competes in the games goes in to strict training. They do it to get a **CROWN** that will not last; but we do it to get a **CROWN THAT WILL LAST FOREVER**! Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize!
2 John 1:8: Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be **REWARDED** fully!.
Revelation 3:11: Jesus says, “I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your **CROWN**!”
2 Timothy 4:7,8: I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Now there is in store for me the **CROWN** of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me **ON THAT DAY**—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for His appearing!
The **CROWN** of Life for those who persevere under trials and persecution:
James 1:12: Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the **CROWN OF LIFE** that God has promised to those who love Him!
Revelation 2:10 Jesus says, “Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer... Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the **CROWN OF LIFE**!”
Matthew 5:11,12: Jesus says, “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your **REWARD IN HEAVEN**!”
Luke6:22,23: Jesus says, "Blessed are you when people hate you, when they reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man. Rejoice in that day and **JUMP FOR JOY**, because great is your **REWARD IN HEAVEN**!"
! Daniel 12:3: Those who impart wisdom will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness like the stars for ever and ever!!
Matthew 19:29: Jesus says, "Everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children **FOR MY SAKE** will receive a **HUNDRED TIMES AS MUCH** and will inherit eternal life!!"
