What do you have in way of scripture to promote a woman in church.
Bishop
Pastor
Minister
1Timothy 2:11-14
NKJV
Let a woman learn in silence and all submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first then Eve. And Adam was not deceived , but the woman being deceived , fell into transgression.
Cupcakeme: If you read the entire posts you will find that on each post I have added very important and different Biblical additions!! I can certainly understand that you may disagree with some of the Scripture on this interesting subject.
Women are directed to be silent, but they also have limitless value in ministry and in various places in scripture were at the forefront of worship, even with men present. Not only that, but women like Deborah, the judge and prophetess, was also of very high rank and obviously had favor with God.
Sometimes the challenge isn't so much about what we can't do, but what we choose to do with what we have.
One of the most well known scriptures embraced by women is Proverbs 31. The beauty of it in its wholeness is the words of a mother counseling a king (Lemuel). The scripture isn't just about what a woman should be, but how to choose wisely as a king. In fact, his mother is warning him that choosing incorrectly could destroy him.
Prov 31:1-3 The words of king Lemuel, the prophecy that his mother taught him.What, my son? and what, the son of my womb? and what, the son of my vows? Give not thy strength unto women, nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings.
TOTH3M4X: We are no longer under the commands of the Old Testament!!!
John 14:23,24: Jesus says, Anyone who loves Me **WILL OBEY MY TEACHING**. My Father will love them, and We will come to them and make Our home with them. Anyone who does not love Me will not obey My teaching!"
John 16:12-14: Jesus says, "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own, he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify Me, because it is **FROM ME** that he will receive what he will make known to you!"
And so the entire New Testament inspired by the spirit are the **COMMANDS OF JESUS!!
Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, "**ALL AUTHORITY** in heaven and on earth has been given to **ME**. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations... Teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU**. And surely I am with you always!!"
I Corinthians 9:21: I am under **CHRIST'S LAW**!!
Galatians 6:2: Fulfill the **LAW OF CHRIST**!!
Galatians 3:23-25: "Before faith came, we were held prisoners by the {**OT**} law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, *WE* ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE {**OT**} LAW!!"
**WHAT ARE THE RESONSIBILITIES OF OVERSEERS AND ELDERS IN THE CHURCH WHO ARE ONLY MEN**??
Timpthy 3:2-6: The **OVERSEER** is to be above reporoach, faithfult to**HIS** wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to **TEACH**, not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. **HE** must manage **HIS** own family well and see that **HIS** children obey **HIM**, and **HE** must do so in a manner of full respect. If anyone does not know how to manage **HIS** own family, how can **HE TAKE CARE OF GOD'S CHURCH**? **HE** must not be a recent convert, or **HE* may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the Devil.
Titus 1:6-9: An **ELDER** must be blameless, faithful to **HIS** wife, a **MAN** whose children believe and are no open to the charge of being wild or disobedient, Since an **OVERSEER** **MANAGES GOD'S HOUSEHOLD**, **HE** must be blameless--not overbearing, not quick tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not seeking dishonest gain. Rather, **HE** must be hospitable, one who loves that which is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined. **HE** must **HOLD FIRMLY** to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that **HE** can **ENCOURAGE** others by **SOUND DOCTRINE** and **REFUTE** those who oppose it!
I Timothy 5:17: The**ELDERS**{WHO ARE ONLY MEN} who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of a double honor, especially those whose work is **PREACHING ** and **TEACHING**!
**DEACONS AND DEACONESSES LIKE PHOEBE ARE NOT **TEACHERS** and **PREACHERS**
Romans 16:1: I commend you to Phoebe, a **DEACONESS** of the church in Cenchrese.
Question: "What are the responsibilities of **DEACONS** and **DEACONESSES** in the church?"
Answer: In the New Testament, the word usually translated **SERVANT** is the Greek word **DIAKONEO** , which literally means "through the dirt." It refers to an attendant, a waiter, or one who ministers to another. From this word we get the English word “deacon.” We first see the word "deacon" used this way in the book of Acts. “And the twelve summoned the full number of the disciples and said, "It is not right that we should give up preaching the word of God to serve tables” (Acts 6:2). The men who were giving themselves to feeding the flock by preaching and teaching realized that it wasn’t right for them to leave those activities to wait tables, so they found some other men who were willing to serve, and put them in place to minister to the church’s physical needs while the elders or pastors ministered to their spiritual needs. It was a better use of the resources they were given, and a better use of everyone’s gifts. It also got more people involved in serving and helping one another.
Today, for the biblical church, these roles are essentially the same. Elders and pastors are to “preach the word…reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching” (2 Timothy 4:2), and deacons are to be appointed to take care of everything else. In a modern church, this might include taking on administrative or organizational tasks, ushering, being responsible for building maintenance, or volunteering to be the church treasurer. It depends on the need and the gifts of the available men.
The responsibilities of a deacon are not clearly listed or outlined; they are assumed to be everything that does not include the duties of an elder or pastor, which is to preach, teach, and exhort. But qualifications for a deacon’s character are clearly outlined in Scripture. They are to be blameless, the husband of one wife, a good household manager, respectable, honest, not addicted to alcohol and not greedy (1 Timothy 3:8-12). According to the Word, the office of deacon is an honor and a blessing. “For those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and also great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 3:13).
The Greek word **DIAKONEO** is translated **SERVANT** 20 times in the New Testament. It is also translated **DEACON** in I Timothy 3:8, 10, 12. **DIAKONEO** is translated **DEACONESS** in Romans 16:1 in the Philips Modern Version and the Revised Standard Version and is translated **SERVANT** in the King James Version and the NIV 1984 Version and **DEACON** in the NIV 2011 Version.
Timothy 2:11: A **WOMAN** should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a **WOMEN** **TO TEACH** or to assume authority **OVER A MAN**!
I Corinthians 15:34,35:**WOMEN** should remain silent in the churches, They are not allowed **TO SPEAK**, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about anything, they should ask their husbands at home; for it is **DISGRACEFUL** for a **WOMAN** **TO SPEAK IN THE CHURCH**!!
I Timothy 3:16,17: All Scripture is **GOD-BREATHEED** and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead and in view of His appearing and His Kingdom, I give you this charge: **PREACH THE WORD**; be prepared in season in out of season, correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear!!
I Peter 1:23-25: For you have been **BORN AGAIN**, not of perishable seed but the imperishable, through the living and enduring **WORD OF GOD**. For all people are like grass, and all their glory is like flowers in the field; the grass withers and the flowers fail, but the **WORD OF THE LORD ENDURES FOREVER**!!
**HOWEVER WOMEN MAY TEACH OTHER WOMEN**!
Titus 2:3,4: Teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. Then they can urge the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the Word of God!!
Women may also teach their own children. Some theologians teach that it is ok for a women to teach boys 12 years old and younger since they are not considered to be men until age 12. Jesus first started to teach in the Temple at age 12 1/2 as per Luke 2:42,46. So then some theologians teach that Jesus considered Himself to be a boy and therefore to young to teach until He became a man when He was 12 years old. Of course there are many theologians who disagree with this theory.
Women may also teach a man in their home when their husband is present as per Acts 18:26: He began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited **HIM** to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately.
TOTH3M4X: We are no longer under the commands of the Old Testament!!!
END QUOTE
But what does the Bible say?
>>>ALL SCRIPTURE<<<
2 Timothy 3:16
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
It’s better to believe God, than a self appointed “prophetic”
In other posts, “prophetic”, when he forced in to a corner, suddenly starts picking and choosing which OT laws he likes and then commands others to follow his uniformed choices, sorta like the Pharisees did in Jesus’ day
“prophetic” seems to understand “zero” about
accurately and correctly applying a lot of scripture which includes
Galatians 3:25 which says:
“Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.” and similar scripture
Some people assume that women must never ever teach a man, period. They base this on an errant reading of Paul’s letters.
But Paul’s letter to Timothy and to the Corinthians clearly state women are not permitted to assume pastoral teaching roles in the church over men.
The reasons cited by Paul are very clear.
1 Timothy 2:13,14
For Adam was formed first, then Eve
And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner
Nevertheless, there are no negative commands or restraints on women forbidding them to teach men >>except<< for those stated biblically.
Neither does scripture require the presence of a man or husband prior to a woman informing a man. The idea a man must be present before a woman can help inform a man is fallaciously based on the case of Priscilla and Aquila who were together when they taught Apollos.
A simple account of what happened is not the same as a prescription or necessarily intended as precedent
As for Deborah and Jael, there are no indications in scripture that Deborah or Jael sought priestly or pastoral leadership roles.
In fact, Deborah was obviously a reluctant leader even when asked by Barak to accompany him to the battle. Unfortunately many “Christian” feminists are not so reluctant when they demand specific leadership roles over men. Feminists often cite Debrah’s role of judge and prophetess as biblical support for women pastoral positions.
However, to act as if Deborah was a Priest, Rabbi, pastor or Levite is to commit a serious category error.
Deborah did not serve as a temple, synagogue or church pastor, priest, bishop or rabbi.
Deborah was a prophetess and judge! She was not a rabbi, priest, preacher, elder or bishop.
For example, to assume women can be bishops/priests/elders/rabbis simply because some women were prophetesses or deaconesses is like assuming cats must be tables simply because both have 4 legs. Obviously, similarly does not prove exact identity.
That’s like saying a plumber is a mechanic and a president is a custodian.
Likewise, to ignore specific biblical terminology is to render language meaningless.
It’s interesting to note from Acts 2:17 women will prophecy
"'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams
and a different context from
1 Corinthians 11
says:
. 5But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head
—it is the same as having her head shaved
But the writer of Acts clearly does not say all your sons and daughter will be pastors and teachers who can now function as church oversight authorities—just because they prophecy. Neither does the writer of Corinthians say every woman who prays or prophesies suddenly becomes eligible for pastoral or teaching roles over the church body.
Probably the best modern woman “prophetess” who may somewhat serve as an allegorical allusion to Deborah might be the late Elisabeth Elliot.
Elliot was the wife of slain missionary Jim Elliot. Jim and his fellow missionaries had endeavored to reach the Auca Indians in the Amazonian Region of Ecuador with the gospel but were martyred in the process by the Indians.
Elisabeth, after grieving the loss of her husband, decided it was the Lords will to return to Ecuador to reach the very Indians who had killed her husband.
Amazingly she was successful. She taught them many things from the scriptures. Some Indians, even those who killed her husband, repented and turned to Jesus as their savior.
Eventually the Indians asked Elisabeth to be their pastor for their new fellowship meetings but she politely refused citing scripture that forbids women pastors.
Instead, Elisabeth encouraged the Indians to chose from among the most mature and spiritual of the men in that community to serve as leaders over the new church.
So here is a woman who was an obvious leader but who did not demand the role of pastor/bishop or leader over a church body or over men but taught the men how to be pastors and leaders as she submitted to the teaching of scripture.
Elisabeth was an unusual woman clearly understood the doctrinal authority of male leadership and did not act like some maverick pioneer or as an independent interpreter of scripture.
One the other hand, some people think a woman can’t even speak in church, period! This is because they misread the passage that says it is a shame for a women to speak. But clearly the >>context<< does not mean she can’t say “hi” to someone at church. Rather she is not to speak as teacher with pastoral authority or as one disrespectful of the established male elder rule and she is not to speak out of turn even in ways that are permitted for a woman to speak.
It is very important to keep in mind the context of the Corinthian letter as it addresses specific issues applicable to the Corinthian church which was known for its chaotic worship services.
Paul says
17In the following instructions I have no praise to offer, because your gatherings do more harm than good. 1Cor11
Many people in the Corinthian mess were out of order. Certain women were not the only ones speaking out of turn. Apparently some women were not submissive either to husbands or to church leadership. Even certain men were likewise speaking out of turn and were thus commanded in that context to be silent.
A responsible student of scripture is sure to read the >>entire<< context of any biblical passage, in this case, l Corinthians 11 and 14. A student must strive to understand each biblical passage in its entirety and in the same way the original author (the Holy Spirit) intended.
Very important to avoid creating a mosaic of false contexts. Avoid removing snippets of scripture here and there. This kind of cut and paste scriptural mosaics usually result in the creation of out-of-context hodgepodges and false teachings
Some people think that men qualify for leadership roles in the church just because they happen to be male. This is quite false. Being a man is only the first qualification. But a man must meet a hardy regime of qualifications that anticipate the office of bishop/elder/pastor. These qualifications are found in 1 Timothy 3:1-7
Unfortunately, many >>unqualified men and women<< find ways of bypassing these Holy Spirit inspired qualifications and illegitimately usurp the office of bishop/elder/pastors to the detriment of entire church bodies
Of course godly men, regardless of their humble beginnings, earnestly seek higher levels of biblical and spiritual maturity, knowledge and wisdom.
Unqualified hirelings, on the other hand, are generally characterized by their subtle rebellions and unteachable attitudes. These evil leaders arrogantly seek the prestige of the office while ignoring its spiritual responsibilities
Sadly, too many women want to storm the sacred office of bishop/elder/pastor. They appear to be motivated by selfish ambition and competition rather than godly humility. In all reality, however, these women are in competition against God.
If their desire is to truly serve God they would learn from and follow examples of obedience set by godly women leaders such as Deborah, Hulda, Phoebe, Anna and others
Little David: You should exegete Scripture by comparing other Scripture on the same topic Instead of using your own words and reasoning to evaluate the true meaning of that Scripture.
John 14:23,24: Jesus says, Anyone who loves Me **WILL OBEY MY TEACHING**. My Father will love them, and We will come to them and make Our home with them. Anyone who does not love Me will not obey My teaching!"
John 16:12-14: Jesus says, "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own, he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify Me, because it is **FROM ME** that he will receive what he will make known to you!"
And so the entire New Testament inspired by the spirit are the **COMMANDS OF JESUS!!
Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, "**ALL AUTHORITY** in heaven and on earth has been given to **ME**. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations... Teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU**. And surely I am with you always!!"
Luke 6:46-49: Jesus says, "As for everyone who comes to Me and hears **MY WORDS** and **PUTS THEM INTO PRACTICE**. I will show you what they are like. They are like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid foundation on rock. When the flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. But the one who hears **MY WORDS** and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete!"
Matthew 24:35: Jesus says, Heaven and earth will pass away, but **MY WORDS WILL NEVER PASS AWAY**!"
I John 2:3-5: We know we have come to know Him {Jesus} if we obey His commands. The man who says, "I know Him," but does not do what He commands is a liar and the truth is not in him. But if anyone **OBEYS HIS WORD**, God's love is truly made complete in him!
I Corinthians 9:21: I am under **CHRIST'S LAW**!!
Galatians 6:2: Fulfill the **LAW OF CHRIST**!!
Galatians 3:23-25: "Before faith came, we were held prisoners by the {**OT**} law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, *WE* ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE {**OT**} LAW!!"
Elisabeth, after grieving the loss of her husband, decided it was the Lords will to return to Ecuador to reach the very Indians who had killed her husband. Amazingly she was successful. She taught them many things from the scriptures. Some Indians, even those who killed her husband, repented and turned to Jesus as their savior.
Little David bought this fairy tale even though it contradicts God's Word!
Elisabeth, after grieving the loss of her husband, decided it was the Lords will to return to Ecuador to reach the very Indians who had killed her husband. Amazingly she was successful. **SHE TAUGHT** them many things from the scriptures. Some Indians, even those who killed her husband, repented and turned to Jesus as their savior.
Little David: You should exegete Scripture by comparing other Scripture on the same topic Instead of using your own words and reasoning to evaluate the true meaning of that Scripture. It is God's Words and not my words that conbtradict your many false teachings!!
Oops I almost forgot to add John 12:48: Jesus says, "There is a Judge for the one who does not accept My words, that very word which I spoke will condemn them at the Last Day!"
John 14:23,24: Jesus says, Anyone who loves Me **WILL OBEY MY TEACHING**. My Father will love them, and We will come to them and make Our home with them. Anyone who does not love Me will not obey My teaching!"
John 16:12-14: Jesus says, "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own, he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify Me, because it is **FROM ME** that he will receive what he will make known to you!"
And so the entire New Testament inspired by the spirit are the **COMMANDS OF JESUS!!
Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, "**ALL AUTHORITY** in heaven and on earth has been given to **ME**. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations... Teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU**. And surely I am with you always!!"
Luke 6:46-49: Jesus says, "As for everyone who comes to Me and hears **MY WORDS** and **PUTS THEM INTO PRACTICE**. I will show you what they are like. They are like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid foundation on rock. When the flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. But the one who hears **MY WORDS** and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete!"
Matthew 24:35: Jesus says, Heaven and earth will pass away, but **MY WORDS WILL NEVER PASS AWAY**!"
I John 2:3-5: We know we have come to know Him {Jesus} if we obey His commands. The man who says, "I know Him," but does not do what He commands is a liar and the truth is not in him. But if anyone **OBEYS HIS WORD**, God's love is truly made complete in him!
I Corinthians 9:21: I am under **CHRIST'S LAW**!!
Galatians 6:2: Fulfill the **LAW OF CHRIST**!!
Galatians 3:23-25: "Before faith came, we were held prisoners by the {**OT**} law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, *WE* ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE {**OT**} LAW!!"
False prophet, liar and hypocrite Richard accuses a godly woman Elisabeth Elliot of making up “fairy tales” about her willingness to risk her own life to reach the violent Auca Indians with the love of God and the gospel.
Richard hypocritically uses HIS OWN WORDS AND REASON to condemn others who use their own words.
Richard knows nothing about how to exegete scripture as evidenced in his many errant posts
