Being a new creation in Christ means that you have been renewed. The old sinful person you once were has gone as a result of your being completely renewed through Christ. In fact, the word renew can be defined as "changing into something new and different, something better." That really sums up what renewal in Christ means in that we were remade into something better. For some of us, it may have been quite a struggle to remove the old sinful self and totally renovate our lives. It may continue to be a struggle, but know this: if you stay steadfast in your relationship with God, He will continually work in your life to renew you and rid yourself of the stains of sin that may continually plague you.
Colossians 3:1-17 KJV
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
It's a most useful thing, to be renewed, to be strengthened in Christ. The grace of Christ is forewarned about, see here, Jude 1:4. Joy also has some deep meaning. Read here. James 4:9. Hebrews 12:2. Acts 20:24
We cant imagine which way is right, Christ is the way and the life. Gods advice always is the best, and God gave many warnings for us, because there are many wrong impressions in life. For us is well doing, we are to labour to enter into the rest of the Lord, which is not until the end of this world. We are to not be concerned with cares of this life, we are to instead, avoid every snare to take our soul, and pray always to escape all the temptations in the world right now, to be accounted worthy to stand before Christ....
Galatians 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
We are called to a party, a party in Heaven, and the people cannot wait for that party. To marry instead now, to have posessions and those cares of this life, everybody has. But to be worthy of Christ, we need to hate our life, absolutely despise it, we have to love Christ more than mother, or brother father or sister, because the journey we are called on, is to take up our cross, and bear a hard life, after we have forsaken all that we have.....
luke14:16-33.A great supper and each person made their
excuse not to attend,i have land i must tend to it,i have
posessions and i need to prove them,I have
married a wife and therefore I cannot come.Then the master
of the house being angry said to his servants,go out quickly
into the lanes and bring in hither the poor,and the
maimed,and the halt,and the blind.And the servant said,it is
done as thou hast commanded,and yet there is room.And the
lord said unto the servant,go out and compel them to come
in,that my house may be filled,for none of those men that
were bidden shall taste of my supper.And there were great
multitudes with him:and he turned and said,if any man come
to me,and hate not his father,mother,wife children,brethren
and sisters,yea and his own life also he cannot be my
disciple.And whosoever does not bear his cross,and come
after me,cannot be my disciple.For which of you intending to
build,sitteth not down first and counteth the cost,whether
he have sufficient to finish it?Lest after you have laid the
foundation you are not able to finish.So likewise WHOSOEVER
HE BE OF YOU THAT FORSAKETH NOT
ALL THAT HE HATH,HE CANNOT BE MY DISCIPLE.
When we speak, God told us, we must speak His words, His oracles, He does not receive testimony from man. All God spoke was teaching, warnings, how God did save the people out of the land of Egypt, but afterward, God had to destroy them. God, the Holy Spirit was at work, in front of all Egypt, but it profited the people nothing, not being mixed with faith.Hebrews 4:2. This is how God does deep ways, to purposefull make these an example, so everybody who does the same now has no excuses whatsoever. Gods sobering message is one, TAKE HEED, if you think you are standing, you will fall.
John 5:33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
32 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.
1 Peter 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Jude 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
1 Corinthians 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
There it is seen again, two ways. You ask God to rebuke the people and attempt to rebuke us yourself. Can you not go for one way, and be singular instead of double ?
You begin in quoting 1 John 2:1, and do not realize you are led by God to do that, but for your own correction. Christ commands us to not sin, but it is Christ who has the power to make us born again, to know Him, and to be in Him. When we keep that commandment, we can say we know Him, when we break His commandment to not sin, we lie if we claim we know Him...
1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
We are to be a sincere believe by purifying ourselves, being born of God, as everybody who transgresses the law by sinning, has not seen Him or known Him. When we do righteousness, the deceiver teachers cannot confess we are righteous, even as He is righteous,(far from sinning) When people who say they are a Christian commit sin, they are of the devil instead. Jesus destroys the works of the devil when He gives us power to be born again. This highlights two groups, the children of God and the children of the devil, because whoever does not do righteousness, and commits sins instead, is not of God..
1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Here is an idea, how about actually reading the scriptures you show carefully, or I have to show you what you miss always ?
They are Christians or carnal ? To be carnally minded is death. To be carnal and in the flesh cannot please God. They are enmity against God instead. Neither having the Spirit of God nor being His.
1 Corinthians 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
People are the temple of God, but the place God dwells is Holy. When we defile ourselves, God is not there in an unholy place, but these are the lawless and disobedient, the ungodly and sinners. You call them Christians, God says wicked person....
1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
1 Corinthians 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
Cant you read your own words yet,or know why the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God ?
Look at your reasoning. One, you say God removes sin from the body, next you claim sin can never be removed. If sin continues for Christians, there would be no Christians left in a church. All would have to be removed. Or, they do not remove the wicked persons, as all are wicked persons, is the only remaining conclusion. Complete confusion and empty, and you are wise though to escape having to answer your discrepancies.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
Luke 16:8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.
Pick one of the following, remember sir, you cannot pick both :)
2 Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
"You pick off individual verses, or small groups of verses, rather then giving the full context of the verses, and you twist them together, to make points that are false and contradictory to the entire body of scripture."
Yes you do, do as you say, I am assuming you are talking about yourself, as I am showing how you actually did, do it.
"You are in open sin before the Lord by denying the plain words of Romans 7:25"
Yes, it is you, yourself, that is holding to only one scripture, not me I'm afraid. you are relying on Romans 7:25, and covering your eyes and ears to the rest of scripture. You do this to excuse yourself that you have no accountability to ever need to cease commiting sins. But, sin has no dominion over us who are Spiritual, Paul says he serves sin in his flesh, and in Romans 6:12 says we are not to obey and serve sin in our body's flesh. Sin has not got dominion over us any more, as Paul was indeed once under the law, but now we are under grace. When in the flesh, we cannot do the things we would, as Paul says in Romans 7:19, but as In Galatians 5:16, we do not fulfill this lust of the flesh, when we walk in the spirit, and you confirmed you, nor Christians, nor Paul or anyone, according to you, cannot do this.....
Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
I am glad you brought up again, how Pauls words are very hard to understand. This is all I'm trying to show you, you are caught up on the deep words of Paul, and think Paul gives you excuses, and he did not, it just is a trap for the entire world of the unrighteous and is the strong delusion Paul said the Lord sends on this world..
"You are unlearned, untaught, and unstable, and you twist God's word to your own destruction"
Yes I am unlearned, untaught, I am unstable and likely to fall, and God will judge on judgment day who is destroyed, but thanks for your judgment...
Acts 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.
John 7:15 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?
Luke 20:18 Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
I have avoided addressing you directly because this thread has been about renewal in the Lord, something to be celebrated and treasured rather than overanalyzed, criticized, and rebuked. If I am to be addressed as a "little child" then I might as well act like one and do what a little child does best: ask questions: Is there a reason you have never offered any words of comfort, congratulations, or encouragement to Rand?
Fortunately, the miracles we experience with Jesus through the Holy Spirit are in no danger of being squelched unless we personally allow them, but I must ask, is the joy we feel such a threat that you would seek to take it from us? What makes you need to attack me and seek to shut me up when I praise God for moving Heaven and Earth to reach me when no one else could and when I praise God for reaching out to Rand? I'm sorry if it offends you, but sometimes my joy and love for God is such that I can't contain it anymore. I HAVE to share it. My experience taught me that God LOVES me and that the words in scripture were written for me and do apply to me and not just the people that lived during Jesus' time. It gave the ability to see the value of the scriptures. What is so dangerous about this relationship with God that you would seek to have God shut me up, or to deny Rand that joy? God doesn't want my biography, He wants ME, and if I seek to form a RELATIONSHIP with God instead of just following a RELIGION, what authority do you have to question it, let alone try to hold us back? Because of my experiences, I not only have an ancient history between God and mankind before me to draw my strength and faith from, but my personal history with Him as well. They complement each other, support each other, and I cannot remember feeling so complete before both became part of my life. Is this joy such a threat to you? Did you not, at some point in your life, live in joy for the Lord and what He's done for you and want to reflect it to others? Have you never felt such joy from an experience that you HAD to share it with someone, lest you might explode? If you did, what happened to you to drive such joy out of your soul? I don't worship a book. I worship a living God and a risen savior, who not only died for me, but who reached out to ME, personally and individually when I was slipping.
Where is the LOVE of the Father? Are you capable of it? Love is patient: Can you not let someone take their journey with God and learn at their own pace? What makes you want to take control of it? Love is kind: Will you not at least acknowledge the progress Rand has made so far? Love is slow to anger: What makes me deserving of your blasting for offering words of encouragement and telling Rand that others can benefit and be blessed by his experiences? Love is quick to forgive. Do you care about those to whom you write? We, the rest of the world's Christians are trying our best in our journey, but none of us are perfect. It must be so lonely in your ivory tower. Can you come down from your mighty tower once in a while and rediscover the Love and compassion that is supposed to make us Christians who we are? Love is not boastful. Much of the Old and New Testament are testimonies or records of God's work with humanity. I'm sure that, before the New Testament texts were written, when the disciples began to spread out and share their experiences and what they'd learned while traveling with Jesus, the scribes and Pharisees thought they were just spreading bragamonies too. Maybe that's why some of them suffered a martyr's death because the disciples had moved beyond mere law and moved out into a relationship with God that included firsthand experience. To share these "bragamonies" as you call them, we must humble ourselves and admit our shortcomings, confess our sins and our failures, and God is the hero of these stories, not us. How is that arrogant? How is that bragging, except on God, witnessing to His power and love? Also, when Rand complimented you on your superior knowledge of the Bible, why did you not acknowledge the compliment he tried to pay you?
Where is the JOY of the Father? Is there some reason that celebrating these steps Rand has taken toward God is something to rebuke? Does not such a journey begin with ONE step? What is so difficult about acknowledging his accomplishment of turning his life over to Christ? Can't you hear the party in Heaven for his newfound path with God? What happened to you that you can't stand to see someone filled with the joy and love of the Holy Spirit? Are you jealous of these individuals? Are we supposed to despise this life and ourselves such that we are joyless?
Where is the PEACE of the Father? Is the scripture just a weapon to you? How do you take communion, sir? Do you come forward with love and joy at having been invited to the feast? Is it so solemn to you that you approach as though coming to view the body? Do you want to shove everyone else back on the way to the table because you feel they are beneath you and unworthy to partake?
Where is the PATIENCE of the Father? Does God work so slowly that you cannot give Him time to work in the life of a young Christian? We are each on our own journey, moving at our own paces. What happened in your life to cause you to think you are the anointed Bible accuracy policeman? Has God given you the authority to judge our journeys and take control of our relationships with God and if so, who judges yours? For you, faith may have come from reading first, and that's fine for you. Does that really mean that the relationship with God forged by the faith-building experiences of miracles to begin or renew their journeys are invalid? Is your road truly the only valid one? Is there no aspect of a relationship with God that you enjoy, or is it all empirical study?
Where is the KINDNESS of the Father? Did you ever ONCE acknowledge the progress Rand made, no matter how meager you might think it is? Do you believe that it is kindness you speak with when you give your lectures? Do you still think this is kindness when such lectures drive someone away from Christian fellowship and maybe even away from the Cross?
GOODNESS: Do you think you have accomplished good by your criticisms? Someone has come forward who is so filled with joy at what he has learned that he has to share it with someone who he hopes will understand and be supportive. What has he said to earn only criticism? Did he really fail that badly in your eyes? This feels like the parent who looks at his child's report card, sees all A's and 1 C and then grounds him for his lack of perfection. Do you feel that this is the right thing to do? Where does this perfectionism come from? Does perfectionism rob you of your joy? If so, what good is accomplished by this, especially when perfection is impossible?
GENTLENESS: Do you possess any gentle words? Does thumping on everyone with your Bible make you feel better? Does it make you feel stronger or more powerful? Do you delight in punishing uncontainable joy? What threat is it to you? Is Scripture nothing more than a giant brain teaser to you? Do you envy those who have miraculous stories to share?
FAITHFULNESS: After all you've learned from reading the Word, do you still not trust that God is working in Rand's heart as He is in so many? What are your expectations that you should need to slap the hand of one who is just getting started on the journey? Did you not have to start your journey somewhere too: learning as you go? Did someone punish you for not learning fast enough? Do you not believe that God can use an imperfect, but willing servant? Is it really necessary that an expression of joy becomes a massive philosophical debate? Why do we have to argue so viciously over something as wonderful and healing as God's renewal? What difference does the argument over how it happens make to the state of our souls? When we come to an agreement at last of how such renewal works in the Kingdom, what good does it do when the discussion has become such a spiritual bloodbath in the course of the argument that everyone is exhausted, turned off, crushed down, joyless, and such renewal is nowhere to be found? What good does it do to discuss the Bible if it is not done in LOVE not only for the text but also the people in the discussion?
SELF CONTROL: Where does the need to take control of these discussions come from? Do you believe you have a controlling nature? Do you feel the need to assume a dominant position in any social setting? Do you try to tell others how to do their jobs even when it is work you have never undertaken yourself? In the case of a celebration like the one Rand is having, is it your goal to take control of the discussion and the celebration? Do you feel that his accomplishment is small enough that correcting his Biblical understanding of what happened is more important than how he turned his life around? I'd hardly consider Rand's accomplishment small, to turn 180 degrees away from self hatred and self mutilation to an undying love for God. Yet I have not heard you acknowledge his progress, and I keep bringing that up because I am deeply troubled and confused by this. Not even a proverbial pat on the back? Nothing? Only a critical analysis of what he's learning? No one can deny that your words come from the Bible, but all Biblical references and their understandings have to come through the filter of a human mind, which is imperfect because all have fallen short, without exception. Are you prepared to admit the imperfection and limitations of your understanding and perspectives on God's word? There is a time to expand knowledge and proceed to the next lesson, and a time to celebrate with someone what has been accomplished. Surely you remember that you weren't taught differential equations in kindergarten, no?
Forgive my boldness, but in looking back at your posts, not only in this forum but in others as well, I'm afraid I don't see much of these traits exhibited in your words. The Fruit of the Spirit is a basic concept, common to all of those who call themselves Christian. We are called to reflect these traits in abundance, and when the Holy Spirit is present to us and in us, they should come naturally. I would think that this is something that any knowledgeable Christian would want to reflect in abundance, especially to those who are new in their walk, at a fragile juncture, facing crisis, or even who are simply non-believers, whether seeking or not. Do you want to reflect these traits, or does it matter to you? Someone with joy unspeakable and full of glory came to this place, seeking friendship, love, and acceptance from people who are supposed to display all of these traits in abundance, and his efforts and his experience are rewarded with criticizm. I'm sorry, but that seems cruel to me. What purpose does it serve to wield something as good and pure as the scriptures to such effect? Do you realize that you come off as a bully? Is that what you want? You have my pity, sir. I pray that someday, you are as lucky as Rand to see God's love firsthand and be transformed by His power to heal. Hopefully it will come from a source you can trust, but in the meantime, you have my forgiveness.
Little children do ask questions, they also understand as a child, thinking as a child, and even the child is known by his doings if it is right or not. The Little child asks questions but they cannot make judgments, definately cant ask and answer all in one, nor can anyone else, ask something sincerely and label the person, at that same time too, it is not upright according to the truth of the Gospel.Galatians 2:14...
1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Proverbs 20:11 Even a child is known by his doings, whether his work be pure, and whether it be right.
James 3:10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
My aim in life is for Gods word to be told as He told it, I have nothing personal against anyone, God knows all He is doing. That way you can afford to be kind to everyone, even your enemies, and it is Gods who should be exalted, never ourselves ever.
The miracles we witness in life, are great, personally for us, but if you include God into all things, His word is not for nothing, but unfortunately peoples words are, apart from taking or adding to Gods word, which God does not like. God testified what miracles are at this end time, it was not told to be renewal or revival miracles, but very different. The devil has all power in this world, he is the god of this world and it is his miracles that are done on this earth now, how many people testify of Gods miracles in their lives, and never consider how many miracles the devil performs for people to think this is Gods confirmation, you do not need to overcome this world, Revelation 3:21, or read Gods word which is your life ?. People do remain ignorant, yet the testimony is told and is in kindness, as kindness is not to keep people unaware of this, the devil takes all captive at will and dwells inside them and they think it is God..
2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2 Timothy 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Deuteronomy 32:46 And he said unto them, Set your hearts unto all the words which I testify among you this day, which ye shall command your children to observe to do, all the words of this law.
47 For it is not a vain thing for you; because it is your life: and through this thing ye shall prolong your days in the land, whither ye go over Jordan to possess it.
Regarding God, He is a consuming fire. Neither did the Lord say have a personal relationsip with Him. The most popular saying today that people say about themselves, is adding to Gods word plus incorrect. We are to fear God greatly, who after He has destroyed the body has power to cast into hell. Luke 12:5. We for sure are to have joy, but not the joy that we witness everybody on earth. Our joy is to not care for our life, to suffer with Christ, and not look on anything here, as all is temporal, 2 Corinthians 4:18, to be joyful that God is there to rescue all who have sorrow and tears and pain, to be joyful God has chosen the poor in this world rich in faith, to have joy that all who consider themselves first, will be last of all, and by sitting low, we have hope the Lord lifts us up, as God abases all who are exalted, as the prideful tongue is cut off, this is the righteousness of Christ, few are chosen, so many will continue proudly to think they are chosen when they cannot be at all, unfortunately God is not a respector of persons, God creates the person of Christ in us, 2 Corinthians 2:10. 1 Corinthians 2:16 and we do have only law now also, of course it is the law of Christ....
Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
Matthew 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
Luke 14:8 When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;
Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Acts 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
Hebrews 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:)
Hebrews 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29 For our God is a consuming fire.
Psalms 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
1 Corinthians 2:3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Job 22:29 When men are cast down, then thou shalt say, There is lifting up; and he shall save the humble person.
Nothing is impossible for those who believe. To be perfect is to do the simpliest of commandments, to love one another, for love is of God. Love is the fulfilling of the law, and the law is fulfilled in one word, thou shalt love thy neighbour with all heart, love works no ill to your neighbour, the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts, what cant we do through His so great a love ?
Mark 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
1 John 4:11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
1 John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
This might be an important thought for some people about the miraculous stories we have to tell. It is similar to talking in tingues, although it is a mystery between the person and God, unless tongues is interpreted it was not to be told. We see all Paul spoke, all was the Gospel of Christ, very little on personal experiences. So we understand we ignore the thousands of instructors in Christ, all with their own methods, we follow Christ only, as Paul did. We must not preach any other Gospel than wat Paul preached, the Gospel of Christ,Matthew, Mark, Luke and John conforming the old testament, as peoples own testimionies confirm none of what saves the soul and if they speak otherwise it says below the outcome...
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
1 Corinthians 4:11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;
12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:
13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.
14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
Arguments cannot be avoided unless the people are unaware of the time we are in, the end of this world, 2 Timothy 4:2-3, Jesus Christ began at age thirty as Messiah, until thirty three and a half, so we should consider three years which you can learn and do a great amount in. Celebrations came for Paul at the time of escaping from the governor of Damascus, because celbrating as Christians is when you count it joy to suffer shame, the worlds way is to count joy and celebration because you want to be happy. Celebrate by works, acts, deeds, celebrate by using faith in Christ to lovingly help others, especially when it hurts yyou to do it, as seen in Christs sufferings and as Paul followed, through the filter of pureness....
2 Corinthians 6:4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;
6 By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,
7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;
9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;
10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.
James 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
Acts 5:40 And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.
41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.
These below are exampled in Christ and Paul, love is to give your life, joy is to suffer all trials and longsufferings, peace is not as this world gives it is to not be self seeking, gentleness to have our heart set on others not ourselves, goodness to do all honourably while all around you betray you and forsake you, 2 Timothy 4:16, Luke 21:16, and faith to have a little strength left, to still keep all these Holy Heavenly commandments, in this end time of temptation. Maybe we can consider why the Heavenly words say, be slow to speak...
Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Revelation 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
James 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
My questions are sincere, and whether either of you cares to answer them or not, you have to deal with them. The devil twists and spits scripture just as well as the two of you. If I had wanted another litany of scripture references I would have gone to my Bible. I wanted a HUMAN moment from him. I wanted to know his HEART.
You place the devil on the same level of God. He is a created being, defeated in the resurrection. He has only the power of lies, but if you honestly believe he has that kind of power over our lives, then it means we can't trust our teachers, we can't trust our experience, and we can't even trust our own ability to read and understand because our own minds can twist the scripture. This is ludicrous because you have left only one avenue of learning who God is: reading the Bible, but because we are imperfect, you can't even trust that. If a lunatic tries to read a biography, he will project his lunacy onto the person about whom he is reading! I don't know whose Cool-Aid you're all drinking, but I want no part of it!
Only the devil peddles such confusion, and I'm not completely convinced that you are not both atheists who just enjoy casting everyone into doubt and fear.
I take my leave of this weirdness! Party on, brother Rand! Party on!
Your questions are sincere, they do not bother me. Knowing the heart..
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
If I twisted scripture, then you might have showed how I did. I know you did not twist scripture, nor say it straight either, it was your own sincere words instead and not Gods word which you generously shared. If you wanted the bible you could read your own, but what harm does it do for you to see scripture? As you said, what harm was it for the man to be patient and kind, maybe it's clearer now why he was not patient and kind either, as everybody seems to lack it, a common fault in the entire world of Christians, but hopefully some still can be what they accuse others to lack.
Jesus warned us what power the devil has, I think the devil would deny he has power and say he is defeated and has only power of lies, but God tells us not to underestimate him, and is inside our teachers, ministers, and ourselves, and scripture tells us directly, we cannot trust in ourselves, but in God, and because we understand all things, it is only by complete trust in God that nothing else can tempt us away from God.
Lunatics, confusion and weirdness, but that is all told before..
Mark 3:21 And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.
Acts 26:24 And as he thus spake for himself, Festus said with a loud voice, Paul, thou art beside thyself; much learning doth make thee mad.
25 But he said, I am not mad, most noble Festus; but speak forth the words of truth and soberness.
2 Corinthians 6:8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;
Romans 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
1 Peter 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
Luke 7:23 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.
Luke 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
2 Corinthians 1:8 For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life:
9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:
Proverbs 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.
Wow.... I was gone for a few days and it turned into a interesting discussion!
Hisjoymypeace and Covenantbrother, that you for your words of support! We sure do have a wonderful God! :raised_hands:
Adam7777 thank you for sharing your thoughts on everything. It added another prospective to the conversation. And I can tell that it is from your own experience with God.
Godismyfather thank you for your input also. Your unshakable standing in God's word is very inspiring. No matter what, Christians should be have that type of resolve when it comes to serving Jesus.
At this point God's not getting the glory in this conversation, so let's stop this. Does God gain anything by His children arguing using His word? God's word never changes, just the prospective of the person reading it.
I will be honest, I had to start skipping over parts of the posts because seeing God's word used like this was becoming depressing.
There is a time and place for arguing about views and what not, but not in a place where young in Christ can openly see it. It will make them think that regardless of what they try to do, they have to be perfect right away otherwise it is pointless, even if the people in on the conversation didn't mean it like that.
Again, I ask that you honestly seek God with fervent prayer, and don't only rely on what people say. We each have to work out our own salvation, and in what ever manner you get there is between you and God. The main thing is that we all make it to heaven, and that we have a pure love towards God as we go down this narrow path.
Then you too can get into arguments like the one here
Thanks Rand for being a peacemaker. We should love peace and make peace and feel at peace to talk, and open up our minds above this world which is set in our heart to stop us seeing the truth, because this is a fallen world, full of deceivers and hatred and murder and unholiness, yet this is how God formed all things to eventually bring Him all glory, so every conversation does bring God glory, and some bring more glory when they seem to bring less, God receives glory by the death of Christ on the cross by the betrayal of Judas, and by all Israel being misled by the Pharisees, so they will wrongly dispute about Gods words and the correct words be told for the world to see...
Ecclesiastes 3:11 He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.
Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
1 Peter 3:10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:
11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.
Matthew 18:7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
Matthew 15:2 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
3 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
4 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
Matthew 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
John 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
John 13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him.
When people seem to be Christians and there is dispute, that is not for no reason, it cannot be swept away under the carpet and ignored, Jesus did not ignore the disputing nation of Pharisees who said God was their father, but told them the are of their father the devil. Imagine it was done 2000 years ago without offending the Pharisee's, none of the glorious works of Christ from Heaven would be witnessed by this world, but they had to be seen for what they are, and still the world chooses flattery instead of reality. So to find children of God would be great, they would agree to what he Lord commanded, read below for anyone to see what it is in this time that has come and how vain talkers and deceivers must be stopped....
2 Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
John 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Titus 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
What is not loving, is to hate your brother in your heart by allowing sin upon him, love is to reprove and rebuke, even to smite, because you can see how God testified to us about flattery below, and the new Christian must see this early, because the flattering dragons are ready to devour you at birth, because Jesus was also threatened at birth to be killed to show you what happens to anyone who is born in Christ is born to danger immediately..
Psalms 141:5 Let the righteous smite me; it shall be a kindness: and let him reprove me; it shall be an excellent oil, which shall not break my head: for yet my prayer also shall be in their calamities.
Leviticus 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbor, and not suffer sin upon him.
Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Matthew 2:13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.
Psalms 55:21 The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords.
Psalms 62:4 They only consult to cast him down from his excellency: they delight in lies: they bless with their mouth, but they curse inwardly. Selah.
Ezekiel 33:31 And they come unto thee as the people cometh, and they sit before thee as my people, and they hear thy words, but they will not do them: for with their mouth they shew much love, but their heart goeth after their covetousness.
Jeremiah 12:1 Righteous art thou, O LORD, when I plead with thee: yet let me talk with thee of thy judgments: Wherefore doth the way of the wicked prosper? wherefore are all they happy that deal very treacherously?
2 Thou hast planted them, yea, they have taken root: they grow, yea, they bring forth fruit: thou art near in their mouth, and far from their reins.
Jeremiah 12:6 For even thy brethren, and the house of thy father, even they have dealt treacherously with thee; yea, they have called a multitude after thee: believe them not, though they speak fair words unto thee.
Psalms 5:9 For there is no faithfulness in their mouth; their inward part is very wickedness; their throat is an open sepulchre; they flatter with their tongue.
Psalms 28:3 Draw me not away with the wicked, and with the WORKERS OF INIQUITY, which speak peace to their neighbours, but mischief is in their hearts.
Who are the workers of iniquity ? God tells to us all, these are them below...
Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Psalms 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Psalms 94:4 How long shall they utter and speak hard things? and all the workers of iniquity boast themselves?
Psalms 92:7 When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever:
Jeremiah 5:2 And though they say, The LORD liveth; surely they swear falsely.
Matthew 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
The workers of iniquity that Our Lord Jesus Christ talked about, are those who say He is their Lord. Yet they swear falsely. Denying Him in works and disobedience. They boast about themselves in all aspects of life, and cannot humble themselves to the lowest place, this is not delight to them to follow this lowly way of Christ on the donkey. But when this world is filled with men who do not live by denying themselves, it is the sign that it is the end judgement day and everlasting destruction. Although it sounds like harsh words, the purpose is so we do not die forever, so we change to be better creations, to love our enemies right away which is to be done above all things and is the bond of perfection we need, these words cannot hurt anyone, the lack of these kind of words will, so let us search and try our ways and turn again to the Lord...
Colossians 3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
Lamentations 3:40 Let us search and try our ways, and turn again to the LORD.
Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Very true Adam7777. I believe it says somewhere in the new testament that we are our brothers keeper. I don't remember where exactly it's at....
Having conversations like this should be looked at a opportunity to reflect on our own walk with God. At least that is what I try to do.
But sometimes one( or both) of the parties involved aren't going to budge on what they believe no matter what one says. And I think when it reaches that point, it is better to end it then waste time on something the other person is not going to be receptive of.
And when it is in a open forum like this, you have to remember who is reading it. The ones who are strong in Christ, and the older who have been walking with God longer won't be affected by a conversation like this.
But the ones who are just starting out, or who are struggling and might walk away, how would reading/hearing something like this effect them?
As an example, if Godismyfather talked to someone who has only served Jesus for less than a month like he has here, what do you think would happen to them?
Yes he used the most important thing we have to learn about God and His commandments being scripture, but the way he comes across could be fatal for someone weak in the Faith. Or it might not, it depends on the person. That's why it is important to remember who our audience is and where they are at in their faith.
That was kinda the reason for the topic of my post. I myself have had times where my faith wavered, but by God's word and Him showing me through His works that He always had our backs. Just like Covenantbrother shared, it took an experience with God to bring him back from that edge. So it comes in many shapes and forms. The main thing is that for some people the struggle is real. And the original topic was supposed to help those who are going through it.
We are not of this world being children of God, but we still live in it. And we still have to deal with the temptations, trials and a society that persecutes us for believing in Jesus. That is the reality of in this corrupted world. But we don't have to be bound by it, we just have to keep walking in faith until Jesus calls us home.
