Once again, we are faced with this "men are the spiritual leaders of their homes, priests of the home, head of the house nonsense.
God is the head of any christian home or you have lost connection with the head, further, the Lord Himeself is NOW calling women to "lead" so men, be ye not deceived, for GOD is the ONLY leader.
WOMEN OF GOD DARE TO RISE UP AGAINST THE DEVIL AND HIS FALSE DOCTRINES!
I AM RISEN WITH CHRIST AND THE DEVIL IS A DEFEATED FOE AND A CRUSHED WORM BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST AND THE POWER OF HIS HOLY NAME.
I WILL NOT BE SILENT!
This is a Word from the Lord from my Pastor who is a man and a Prophet of God;
The Spirit of God says there is an unbelievable to some, force, a gale force, being released to come and to wipe away; to come to restore. I have heard you inviting Me. So many things were taken illegally by forces that did what they did to the Son of the Most High God.
For had they known the mystery of God they would not have crucified the Lord on High. Had they known the mystery of God they would not have attempted to come against your children, against your homes, against your business, your finance, your hearts, your emotions.
Had they known the mystery of God they would not have endeavored to crucify what was rightfully yours.
They endeavored to crucify your righteousness, they endeavored to crucify and remove and bury what was rightfully yours.
The Spirit of God says, you are surrounded by a great cloud of witness, the greats of yesterday that stood out amongst men, amongst royalty and made a difference, are surrounding you.
For there was a sound in each one of their spirits when they faced the giants of their time - that sound exists in this generation of women, says the Lord of Hosts.
This sound is a sound of tenderness, this sound is a sound of bold gentleness.
This sound is a sound that has petrified the powers of hell for this same sound existed within Esther. The same sound existed within Deborah.
The same sound existed in Mary when the Rock came forth and Satan has watched the women of this generation and said "no more" but the Spirit of God says, they will arise, and when they arise they will bring forth the Rock Christ Jesus again!
As a prophet I have heard the sound: in this day and this year of acceleration of women suddenly accelerating and touching the untouchable, reaching the unreachable.
That's what I saw and God said, tell these women, you are the instigators and the initiators of this movement that is about to touch the entire earth.
It has been some time now, says the Lord, that I have focused My attention once again on the women to bring forth the Word, the Rock.
It has been a while now that I have looked for a sound to come from a place where women would arise not with temperament, but with character, with virtue, a sound that would come from them for one reason: God, Your will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. And Lord, what you are dictating in Heaven right now, we want to perform on earth - this is their prayer.
Surely that which belongs to the Lord and belongs to you can not be taken and if it is put into the hands of your enemy it will only be returned to you with double power and with greater might.
For God says there is an element of resurrection that has not yet been released; That element of resurrection is now emerging from the heavenlies through an open veil.
A veil that was once shut by the unbelief of men and by the many, many that would persuade people to say that the future is not important.
I am taking now that which is emerging, the element of the resurrection, that the church has not yet had; the resurrection of the dead, the resurrection of things that have been taken, the resurrection of things that have been destroyed; the resurrection.
God says it has appeared before, it has appeared as a visitation but now it shall come as a habitation.
It has appeared before in little moments and in little spurts. But now God says like a gale force it is coming and it can not repent and it can not be taken back.
It can not be withdrawn and once it comes from the heavens you will see things that you thought you lost coming back to you with 10 times the power and 10 times the resources and 10 times the authority.
This is the night for the 10 time restoration says the Spirit of God. Rejoice for this is the Word of the Lord to you. The heavens are opened up.
The people of God make this declaration tonight we tolerate no force of evil in the church.
Religion has chased our children away. But now our children will say we want to go to church. You hear what I�m saying. Those that are two years of age this day will not be as you and I were and the teenagers of this day are we don�t want to go to church. You can not blame them can you? God said I�m changing the whole thing in church.
God said everyone that tries to control Me, I�ll break their hands, I�ll break their feet so that they will have no power to control.
Because this day I say to you, your children will say we want to go to church. Your grandchildren will say why have they stopped us? No they have not stopped you.
Religion has stopped you but that has come to an end. Rejoice, as for you and your house, you will serve the Lord.
I am looking for some warriors, says the Lord, and they are in your families - they are your children and they are the women of this generation!.
These are the ones that will stand before the kings just like Esther did.
And God said, these are the ones who change history just like Deborah.
These are the ones that will change history just like Ruth and Mary and Elizabeth.
God said, your girls are going to become women of God and they are going to become virtuous women who will prophesy to the dead bones of this society.
I am going to raise up your children and they shall be the ones who will stand before the Lord and say, "God, here I am, send me, and send me wherever You want me to go. Send me, send me wherever You want me to go. Send me, send me wherever You want me to go, send me. "
I have made a place only for you next to Me. I have a made a place by My side.
And now He's saying there's a place I've created for you. Just like He told Moses, He said, there is a place by My side, there is a place by My side and by My side is a Rock and in that Rock is a cleft. By the Rock, but in the Rock there is a cleft.
The Spirit of God says, I will place you in the cleft so I can show you the glory of tomorrow.
My altar is open for you and your house. If you desire this that I have promised, come to My altar, stand before Me, says the Lord, you, your children, your family and I will give you that promise, says the Spirit of God.
Right by My side there is a place for you. Right by My side there is a place for you in the Rock, My Son. Right by My side there is a place for you in the Rock, My Son. Right by My side there is a place for you in the Rock, My Son.
In the Rock, My house.
Right in My heart, there is a place for you in the Rock, in My house.
Right next to Me there is a place for you in the Rock in My heart.
You said that what I have presented is for the Jews? That is ludicrous. The NEW Testament Scriptures I presented are clearly and irrefutably for CHRISTIANS, Jew or Gentile makes no difference. Remember that Paul's primary ministry was to the Gentiles and the Epistles he wrote were primarily to Gentile Christian Churches. This is basic Bible theology 101 that you should have learned a long time ago. This is fundamental.
In none of the posts have you given a proper answer to any questions put forth to you. You ignore them.
You said your Pastor is not a teacher, that he is a Prophet of God. Tells us then what is a Pastor suppose to do if not teach? Pastors are suppose to be teachers of God's Word. When someone "claims" to be a Prophet of God and is teaching HIS word and makes a statement that is clearly contradictory to God's written word, then that person is a False Teacher.
Mat 24:11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.
You are being deceived and so badly that even when you are shown clear scriptures you cannot accept God's word over the lies of your Pastor. That is terribly sad!
You are clearly fulfilling this scripture below as are those who also blindly follow your pastor.
2Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. NKJV
Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive,
as the law also says.
(what law? the Jewish law and the laws of the land at that time of course).
Therefore she should [be subject to his authority and should] have a covering on her head [as a token, a symbol, of her submission to authority.
(there is NO such "custom" today where women are required to wear these coverings, not in Christian Church's, but it is so in JEWISH tradition).
Galatians 5:16-25
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
In John 14:12 Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing.
He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father." NOTICE ANYONE, NOT JUST MEN!
Not just men, but anyone, this includes women; they also shall do all that He did and greater things than these for He lives in us too, by His Spirit
AND, what were some of the things Jesus did?
Luke 4 (King James Version)
43 And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.
44 And he preached in the synagogues of Galilee.
(NO Jewish female is allowed to preach in the synagogues today, in fact, they are encouraged to not even GO to the synagogues, and if they do, they are seated in the back, far away from the teaching and as my friend who did go said "I couldn't even hear the message I was so far away, and the women are seperated from the men who are in the front")
And men like you wll hold to the Jewish tradtions and say God said so, call people false prophets or teachers when you yourself are bound by this very thing, how stupid.
Another thing He did;
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
And you say I am deceived?
I am through with this with you; clearly you do not understand what you read, I feel sorry for you.
I will go on in the Lord's work and see souls saved and people provided for by His power. AMEN.
I leave you to you misguided understandings and the judgment you invite upon yourself.
I apologize to all involved for starting this unfruitful argument. The truth is, that this is not going to stop anyone from going to Heaven. We can get so caught up in these types of debates that we forget what is important.
His warrior, while I obviously do not agree with your interpretation, I will not question your salvation or devotion. The fact that you are out doing, instead of just talking, speaks volumes about your character. God bless you my beloved sister.
Walter, you have a wonderful way of conveying your opinions. They are clear and concise, and very easy to understand for everyone. I believe as you do, so I applaud your research and understanding of God's word. Please don't let frustration cause you to stop your research.
This subject, while being important to some, is really just a distraction from a much more important truth: Time is running out, and there are still many out there that need to be saved. We may be the only thing standing between them, and eternal damnation. Please don't let anyone perish because we got sidetracked. I have much love for the brotherhood (Men AND women), and I pray God gives you the desires of your heart in righteousness.
This and many other blessings I ask in the mighty name of Jesus, who died, that we might live,
Praise God ! That some christians understand the truth...and do not allow Satan to press them down and shut their mouths!
I am a woman of God and a Pastor, Christ works through me and His will is done in our Church I don't run any mans life I only tell him what the word of God says through the Logos or Rhema word. It is up to him to beleive it or not the men in my church respect me as a Woman that God works through and they are powerful men of God who hold up my hands when they get tired, they are wariors who understand without Christ I am nothing.
I'm sure Deborah went through obstecals when she was in leadership over Gods people too. But God worked through her as she judged His people.
HisWarrior, I tried to read the beginning of your whole forum but it just went on and on and on and on. I do understand your excitement and being defensive about your pastor/ prophet. That is commendable to love your church leader so well. I am sure a lot of pastors wished they had congregants like you.
I do not want to demean you in any way, my sister. I do appreciate your fervor. I also agree with the statements about head coverings as I see some things done in the New Testament out of propriety for that particular point in time in a particular society. I think for people to say that location and time do not affect the literal meaning of the Word of God for today, need to answer some questions. Like, when was the last time you washed someone's feet, or when you anointed a person's head with oil, to the point of it running down upon a beard instead of a little drop on the forehead? Do we have slaves? God blessed bigamy in the Old Testament too. Clearly there are customs associated in the Bible with that culture/ time that aren't always translated to present or even from Old Testament to the New Testament!
But, we cannot overlook the whole idea of the whole of Scripture.
My paternal grandfather was a Baptist minister, then became Full Gospel. My mother is an ordained Charismatic minister herself. (I do not personally agree with this.) I do not think women are any less than men as far as the Holy Spirit and outpouring goes or the Bible wouldn't have said He would pour His Spirit upon ALL flesh, nor would there be the verse stating we are joint heirs in Christ. It was Anna, the Prophetess, who prophesied over Christ, she was a widow and served in the temple. Deborah was a judge in Israel, the men went to her for direction. I don't see where God belittles women and says we have to be quiet little church mice. I think there needs to be more digging into the Word on the whole women being completely silent stuff, the above women weren't silent and there was even a deaconness in the New Testament (Phoebe? Can't remember.)
BUT, God told Adam and Eve in the garden that one of the curses on Eve was going to be that she would want to control the man but she would have to be subordinate to him. This was a curse just like the excruciating pain in childbirth. Some of you men need to re-read the passage about Satan deceiving Eve, Adam was right there WITH HER! Where was this fearless leader? And, his first action was to cast blame on Eve to God instead of taking any responsibility.
Personally, I don't like leading, I wanted to follow my first husband and he told me when he divorced me that I wasn't independent enough! My second marriage was a joke. I "settled" for a man who wouldn't even pray the blessing over the meals, my fault, I married too hastily, then he bailed.
Too many men don't know how to lead properly, they either bully, which I think that is what you are afraid of, or they are wimps. I don't respect that. Give me a REAL man of God who mirrors HIS image and loves me like Christ loves us (the church) and I will have NO problem following along behind him! But, even with the husbands who didn't love me the way Christ did, I was STILL obedient to the Word and I have no regrets over my actions.
Anyhow, I digress... Balance. There needs to be a balance, I have heard both sides of this long debate before. I go to a Charismatic church and I have a whole lot of disagreement on a whole bunch of issues with it. I can't find a denomination that I fit in to.
I think we'll all be surprised when we get to heaven and find out what God really accepts or doesn't. I hope I don't fall short. I love Him tremendously and whatever I have to do to follow Him correctly, I want to. The more I study, the more questions I have and the more I realize that you cannot put this awesome God in a box!
Thanks for getting the discussion going, HisWarrior. I pray that the Lord reveals His Word in a new way the next time you read it. I think it is amazing that as many times as I have read the Word, something "new" always jumps off the page! I'm so glad He loves us and is patient with us! I like your name, you are a woman not afraid to stand for Him. Blessings to you as you seek Him!
Men say today that women are to be silent and learn from their husbands; this is not what Jesus said would be so for a born again believer and neither did HE appoint a husband by the mere fact that he is a husband as the official leader of the home, this is not the truth.
I am not saying that any woman should "lead" the house either, BOTH are ONE in Christ with HIM, that is Christ as the HEAD or you are NOT subject to Christ, but man.
This is wrong; women hear the voice of God and act upon it, this man will never change, women will not be slient, at least not this woman.
Further, who is any man that he will say to a blood bought believer "'I HAVE CHRIST AS MY HEAD, BUT YOU WOMAN, YOU HAVE ME AS YOURS!" INSANITY I SAY.
Was my husband crucified for me, was I baptised into the name of my husband? Certainly not and he is not my head either, he is flesh, flesh gives birth to flesh.
No man is going to rule over me and those who seek such rule, let them, none will be given them, let them tell their story walking for it is vanity.
God is exalted as head, not man, this is utterly sinful!
Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says.
I AM NOT UNDER THE LAW! I AM NOT COMING UNDER THE LAW! PERIOD! END OF STORY! FOOLISH MEN WILL NEVER LEARN, THEY HAVE NO POWER!
For whoever was called in the Lord as a slave is a freed person belonging to the Lord, just as whoever was free when called is a slave of Christ. (This does NOT say COME UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF YOUR HUSBAND WHEN YOU MARRY!)
These men are but fools teaching the teachings of men and saying it's God, they will not prosper in their ways for the Lord has said they will not, they wiill indeed be taken out and I cannot wait untl they are.
The Word is clear, if you were a slave when you found the Lord, then use it to you advantage and if you were free when you found Him stay free.
He also said;
ALL THESE THINGS YOU SEE ME DO YOU SHALL DO ALSO........
I REPEAT, THIS WAS NOT SAID ONLY TO MEN, BUT IT ALSO FOR ALL WHO ARE IN HIM AND IT IS HE WHO ACTS BY HIS WILL AND HIS SPIRIT IN THE PERSON TO DO HIS WILL, NOT MAN'S!
I will never, ever come under the "authority" of a man, this is clearly the flesh and will always be the flesh, men are deceived and seek to deceive to retain the false power they think they have, even so, what they think they have shall be taken and they will hang their miserable heads in shame.
Consider for yourselves; is it proper and decent [according to your customs] for a woman to offer prayer to God [publicly] with her head uncovered?
Therefore she should [be subject to his authority and should] have a covering on her head [as a token, a symbol, of her submission to authority, JEWISH TRADITON!
First Reading: 1 Jn 2:22-28
Who is the liar?
The one who denies that Jesus is the Christ.
This is an antichrist, who denies both the Father and the Son. The one who denies the Son is without the Father, and those who acknowledge the Son also have the Father.
Let what you heard from the beginning remain in you.
If what you heard from the beginning remains in you, you, too, will remain in the Son and in the Father.
And this is the promise he himself gave us: eternal life.
I write this to you thinking of those who try to lead you astray.
You received from him an anointing, and it remains in you, so you do not need someone to teach you.
His anointing teaches you all things, it speaks the truth and does not lie to you; so remain in him, and keep what he has taught you.
THEY DENY CHRIST THE RIGHT OF HEADSHIP AND LEADERSHIP BY HIS SPIRIT AND SAY GOD SAID SO!
THIS IS THE TEACHINGS AN ANTICHRIST!
MEN ARE NOT THE HEADS OF WOMEN WHO ARE IN CHRIST AND THEY CERTAINLY ARE NOT THE HEADS OF THE CHURCH WHICH IS HIS BODY!
AMAZING, SO MANY ARE SO BLIND. LET THE BLIND RECEIVE THEIR SIGHT!
The Scriptures plainly teach that divinely called and qualified women may also serve the church in the Word (Joel 2:29; Acts 21:9; 1 Corinthians 11:5)," and are entitled to whatever grade of credentials their qualifications warrant.
Those who deny a public ministry to women base their position on Paul�s statement in 1 Corinthians 14:34, 35 for women to "keep silence in the churches," and his instruction to Timothy forbidding a woman to teach or usurp authority over the man, "but to be in silence" (1 Timothy 2:12).
The obvious physical and emotional differences between men and women have undoubtedly contributed to the inferior position accorded women in many cultures.
The woman being the weaker vessel (1 Peter 3:7) has tended to give man the more dominant role as provider and protector. There have even been unfounded intimations of woman�s inferiority in intelligence and morality.
Second-class status has often been the lot of wives and women in general in both Judaism and Christianity. This has been due mainly to the influence of other cultures, religious and social, which have given women a position of social inferiority to men. While certain restrictions were placed upon the female sex by the Old Testament order, there were also conferred on them certain honors, rights, and privileges not known in the contemporary world.
It was mainly the traditional teachings of the rabbis outside the Scriptures that tended to degrade them. 1 John 2 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
Christ�s coming was like a breath of fresh air to the liberation of womanhood and the restoration of her dignity.
He treated women with the respect due them.
They accompanied Him on His preaching tours and ministered unto Him (Luke 8:2).
A woman was the first to bear witness of His resurrection (Luke 24:1-12).
They were numbered with the 120 disciples in the Upper Room who received the Holy Spirit�s power for witnessing (Acts 1:12-26; 2:1-4, 16-18). The curse lifted.
The judgment pronounced upon Eve that her husband would rule over her (Genesis 3:14-19) was a consequence of the Fall, not the original order and design in creation. Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the Law upon sin (Galatians 3:10-14), and thus He restores the mutual and complementary relationship which Adam and Eve shared before the Fall (Genesis 2:23,24; Ephesians 5:28-31; 1 Corinthians 11:11, 12).
The Mosaic Law abrogated.
The Law was added because of transgression (Galatians 3:19). It made nothing perfect (Hebrews 7:19) and was a temporary provision until the fulfillment of God�s promise to Abraham in Christ (Galatians 3:14-25).
The restrictions and injustices imposed by the law of Moses upon the female sex, such as the bill of divorcement (Matthew 19:3-9) were abolished in the Old Covenant, being superseded by the New Covenant.
Women prophetesses in Old Testament times. Several women in Old Testament times were looked upon as prophetesses, including Miriam (Exodus 15:20), Deborah (Judges 4:4), Huldah (2 Kings 22:14), and Isaiah�s wife (Isaiah 8:3).
Anna is called a prophetess (Luke 1:36-38) and spoke publicly of Christ to all who looked for redemption in Jerusalem. Women are to be accorded even greater privileges and opportunities for ministry under the New Covenant of grace; for she lives by Christ's Spirit, it is not her who lives but Christ in her.
Philip�s four daughters prophesied. The promise that daughters would prophesy found fulfillment again some years after the initial outpouring of the Spirit at Jerusalem, in that Philip�s daughters at Caesarea were recognized as prophetesses (Acts 21:8, 9).
Women at Corinth prayed and prophesied publicly. The issue at Corinth which Paul raised was not the right of women to pray and prophesy in public, but only the proper manner in which it should be done (1 Corinthians 11:4, 5, 16-18) in the light of prevailing customs.
His counsel, "Judge in yourselves (v. 13), and his statement that neither he nor the churches of God had any such custom (v. 16) if any were contentious or disputatious, indicate he did not look upon the head covering as a binding moral obligation.
This is in harmony with Paul�s motivation to be all things to all men for God�s glory and the salvation of lost humanity (1 Corinthians 9:19-23; 10-27-33; Romans 14:1-23), and at the same not flaunting his liberty in external matters (1 Corinthians 8:9; 10:23).
Paul recognized women in ministry roles. In Romans 16:1, 2, Phoebe, the bearer of the letter Paul wrote to the Roman Christians from Corinth, is called "a servant (literally, �minister� or �deacon� from the Greek, diakonos) of the church which is at Cenchrea." She is also called "a succorer (Greek, prostates, �a protectress�) of many, and of myself also." The meaning is "one who stands before, a front rank person, chief, leader." Among others to whom Paul sends greetings are Junia and Andronicus, "who are of note among (the Greek preposition is en, which denotes �fixed position�) the apostles" (Romans 16:7).
Chrysotom and many prominent commentators were of the opinion Paul considered Junia as an apostle.
Tryphaena, Tryphosa, and the beloved Persis are commended for their "labor in the Lord" (Romans 16:12). Paul elsewhere refers to Apphia, in whose house there was a church (Philemon 2), and to Euodias, Syntyche, and other women who were fellow-workers with Paul and struggled with him in the gospel (Philippians 4:2, 3). Lydia was prominent in the church at Philippi (Acts 16:12-16, 40). Paul�s instruction to Timothy does not impose absolute silence on women.
The opening expression in 1 Timothy 1:9-15, "in like manner also," indicates a link with men praying "everywhere" (v. 8) and emphasizes the proper attire and decorum of women who engage in public prayer. This is in harmony with what Paul stated about proper decorum for Corinthian women who prayed and prophesied in public (1 Corinthians 11:2-16). That the husband-wife relationship is primarily in focus is evident in the transition in verse 11 from the plural to the singular, "man" and "woman," which terms can properly be translated "husband" and "wife."
This is further evident in the reference to Adam and Eve, the first married couple, and also the reference in verse 15 to childbearing. The woman�s subjection is primarily to her husband, which corresponds with the parallel passage in 1 Corinthians 14:35, 35. In both instances the reference does not pertain to women with a God-given maturity.
It refers to bold women who are unqualified and who wrongfully attempt to teach and domineer over their husbands and others. Instead they need to submit and learn with respectful and modest decorum.
Since Paul forbids the woman of whom he speaks to"usurp authority over" (Greek, authenteo, meaning "to act of oneself, to domineer over") the man, she is arrogating to herself a position in authority to which she is not entitled and a function in teaching for which she is not qualified or properly recognized.
In Christ there is neither male nor female. Paul indicates in Galatians 3:28 that in Christ sex discrimination and racial and social distinctions are abolished. Manifestations of the Spirit and ministry gifts are bestowed upon all members of Christ�s body (Romans 12:1-8, 1 Corinthians 12:1-31; Ephesians 4:1-16) with no distinction as to sex.
Likewise all believers, both men and women, are made priests unto God (1 peter 2:4-10; Revelation 1:6; 5:10; 20:4, 6) and as such have a ministry in service and the offering up of spiritual sacrifices to the entire household of faith (1 Peter 2:5; Hebrews 3:6).
This is His Word, this I live by and am subject ONLY to Him as my head, my leader, my provider, my all in all and no man will take this from me, not ever.
I am loyal to my God, not my Pastor, I am loyal to the Word he speaks, not him who speaks it.
GOD HAS A CALL OUT FOR WOMEN; IF WOMEN WILL ANSWER FINE; UNLIKE MEN, GOD WILL FORCE NO ONE!
Do as you wish sister, it seems obvious that you will anyway. My job is done. I told you the truth and you would not accept it. I knock the dust from my feet and move on.
Have you forgiven every man that has done wrong to you? Every person without exception?
There is a great deal of anger, frustration and unforgiveness in your posts. You may not see this but others including myself have. You really need to consider that we see this in you.
These things are blinding you to God's truth in His word and that is one reason why you are so badly taking verses out of context and misapplying them. It is also one reason that you do not accept God's Word in how He specifically laid out the responsibilities of the Wives and Husbands in marriage in the Christian Churches for today nor do you accept the specific roles for specific leadership positions within a local Christian New Testament Church and the restrictions God has against women occupying those positions.
You said some things that I must respond to you for.
You (HW) said and I quote:
"Who is man to say God said women are to obey men! GOD said NOT to do this!
Walter: Well in a general sense that may be true but not entirely accurate as God gave specific instructions for wives to submit to their Husbands AS they are to submit to Christ Himself.
Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, AS UNTO THE LORD (caps mine)
23 For the husband IS THE HEAD of the wife, EVEN AS Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 THEREFORE as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. NJV
This is NEW Testament commands for CHRISTIANS. This is not something under the Old Mosaic Law so don't even try to go there. This was a letter Paul wrote to a Gentile Christian Church.
Also this is a consistent teaching all the way back to Genesis because of what the woman did. Yes I said that correctly.
Gen 3:16 To the woman He said: "I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, AND HE SHALL RULE OVER YOU."
(HW) Since there are no men who will declare the Word of the Lord, I will do it for you then;
Walter: Now you are in dangerous territory as you are about to claim that God has given you this word. You are claiming you are speaking for God. If you are then what you say will in nowise contradict the written Word of God. If it does contradict then you are a False Teacher and are to be shunned. Let's see.
(HW) The Lord said " I am raising up My women, My warriors, My people will arise and they are the women of this generation, the women of the next generation to whom this torch is passed; these will have a double power, a double anointing and a double portion of the spoils of war; for their only prayer is, not my will but Your will be done Lord.
WALTER: This is so incredible. No where did you say that God will raise up men! You excluded them. Would God exclude men in this? Not at all. Can you show in some future prophecy in scripture where this is going to occur? Can you show anything in Revelation or Daniel or Ezekiel or Isaiah? No you cannot because no such prophecy exists about what you CLAIM God said to you.
God cannot contradict His written Word nor can He give any new Revelation that would change it. Christ has ordained and gave specific instructions in His word concerning the Leadership of His local New Testament Christian Churches and those positions are exclusively for men of God and not women. Pastors, Elders and Bishops. Period! Furthermore God also ordained that women are not allowed to USURP authority over a man or teach a man. Of course this is regarding biblical matters in the local Churches. Let me lay this out for you again and show you a verse you have grossly misinterpreted.
1Cor 14:34 Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says.
You took the last part of the verse that says...."as the law also speaks"....and took it to meant that this was just about being under "The Mosaic Law" and not as a teaching for Christians today. This is blatantly false. Look at the Grammar. "As the law...ALSO says". In other words Paul was stating that this teaching is ALSO in harmony with what the law said. The Greek grammar fully supports this. Your conclusion and interpretation is totally wrong.
35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.
36 Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached?
Now pay close attention as you do not want to miss this since you think God is speaking to you.
37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you ARE THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD. (caps mine)
38 But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant.
1Tim 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to USURP authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. KJV
A women is not permitted to teach a man or USURP authority over a man. What you are espousing is that now God is going to have women do what He commanded that they cannot do. You make God a liar and contradict His Word.
(HW) The Lord said He is about to invade the mosques of the Muslims and raise up some women from these who will rise up and conquer their masters, those depraved men of corrupt hearts who would seek to rule and reign by a human power and false religions, these shall be conquered by the very one's they have enslaved, they shall now be the slave to the one's they once mastered. God says, they have kept you in the caves, submitting to the rules and regulations of men of power and corrupt minds, now I will liberate you and none will stand against you for I will be your power, I will be your authority, I will raise you up and no one will trample you underfoot again!.
Women are the chosen warriors of today; women of God who are not afraid to storm the gates of hell and beat that devil as fine as dust and pour him out like mud upon the streets; these women shall take the plunder, they shall tie up the strong man and take all his goods for the Kingdom of God."
WALTER: The things you are speaking are utter nonsense and a contradiction to God's Holy Word. The Devil was already beat at the Cross and Resurrection by Jesus Christ. The Devil is already defeated. There are simply no scriptures to back up what you are saying and they actually contradict you. What you are doing is not speaking for God as God is not talking to you. It is not God nor can it be as God cannot contradict His written Word.
I believe the demons know your weakness and your anger towards men because of past hurts and is using you to pervert God's Word hoping that some person ignorant of God's word would be deceived as well. Who did Satan lie to in the Garden of Eden? Eve...a woman, not Adam. Why? Possibly because she was more easy to deceive and knew Adam would have told him to take a hike.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. KJV
Adam wasn't off the hook either for his fault for listening to his wife. But that is another discussion. :-)
Genesis 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
So since you are a Pastor, please explain to me how is it that God only allows men to be Pastors, Elders and Bishops? Was God in error when He inspired Paul to write this down? Was Paul in error and if so then we must throw out the entire Bible because none of it would be trustworthy.
Here's a study I did a while back. Please demonstrate for me where my exegesis is wrong. Show me where I violated Hermeneutics.
Women Pastors. Is it biblical?
By Walter Diaz
There is much debate between Charismatic Churches and Conservative Churches concerning the issue of the role of women in the Church particularly when it comes to leadership positions such as Pastor/Bishops, Deacons and Elders. I believe that God�s word is absolutely clear on this issue. Let�s see what it says.
1Corinthians 14:34 the women must keep silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak out, but must place themselves in submission, as the law also says.
35 If they want to learn anything, they should ask their own husbands at home, for it is inappropriate for a woman to speak out in church.
36 Did God's word originate with you? Are you the only people it has reached?
37 If anyone thinks he is a prophet or a spiritual person, he must acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command.
But if anyone ignores this, he should be ignored. (ISV)
Above we see that Paul, considered to be the Apostle to the Gentiles, is addressing Christians and womens obligations within the Church environment. Paul was not prejudiced against women as some claim.
I want you to notice what Paul says in verse 37. That the things he writes are the Lord�s Command.
Not a suggestion and not just something for the current times he was writing in but are a commandment of Christ the Lord. This means for all time. It is not a cultural thing as some in the Charasmatic churches claim. If that were true then we can just throw out the entire bible and say it was only for them way back then too. So the question is this. If a women is to keep silent while in Church, then how can she be a Pastor and preach? She can�t. But let�s continue.
1 Tim2: 9 in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing,
10 but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works.
11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission.
And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.
Notice here that Paul is being very clear on the issue of women not being allowed to teach or have authority over a man. It is charged by Charasmatics that since Paul said �I� in verse 12 then he was just giving HIS opinion. Unfortunately for them that would be an improper understanding. Since Paul already said that it was the Lord�s Commandment for women to keep silent in church, this statement of his is in keeping with the consistency and harmony of scriptures. The passage is gender specific and the Greek fully supports this. Husband is gender specific. A woman cannot be a Husband as a man cannot be a wife either. Again Paul is being consistent in his teachings as he is writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and in this passage he is not giving his opinion. Paul only gave his opinion on a few things and when he did he was clear to say that it was NOT the Lord but he that was giving the statement. That is not the case here. Paul says a woman cannot teach a man or be in authority over a man. This means the Lord said it via the Holy Spirit.
This forbids a woman from being in any leadership position over a man within the Church. This obviously forbids a woman from preaching to a church or any church environment where men are present. Let�s continue with why this is so.
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self�control.
The reason, is that women are more easily deceived as was the case in the Garden in Genesis. It was Adam who was first made and then Eve and then it was Eve who was deceived by Satan, NOT Adam.
1 Tim 2:1 � This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, {Literally overseer} he desires a good work.
A bishop then must be blameless, the HUSBAND of one wife, temperate, sober�minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach;
From G1909 and G4649 (in the sense of G1983); a superintendent, that is, Christian officer in general charge of a (or the) church (literally or figuratively): - bishop, overseer.
3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous;
4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence
5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?);
6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil.
Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
Again we see that the position of a Bishop which is the same as a Pastor, MUST be a Husband, which is gender specific, which is a MAN. Women are precluded from this position.
What about the term Pastors? It only appears once in the New Testament.
Ephesians 4:11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,(NKJV)
Pastor: 4166 poimhn poimen poy-mane� of uncertain affinity; TDNT-6:485,901; n m
AV-shepherd 15, Shepherd 2, pastor 1; 18
1) a herdsman, esp. a shepherd
1a) in the parable, he to whose care and control others have committed themselves, and whose precepts they follow
2) metaph.
2a) the presiding officer, manager, director, of any assembly: so of Christ the Head of the church
2a1) of the overseers of the Christian assemblies
2a2) of kings and princes
8 � Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double�tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money,
9 holding the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience.
10 But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons, being found blameless.
11 Likewise their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things.
Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. (NKJV)
The position of Deacon is a gender specific however there are such positions as "deaconess". A Deacon and Deaconess are not positions of leadership of authority per se as they are more of a position of serving in subjection to Elders and Pastors.
Every passage we have seen and every definition prohibits women from teaching, preaching or being in any leadership position of authority over a man within the Church. This is the consistent teaching of God�s Holy Word and when a woman goes against this teaching she is in direct disobedience to God�s Holy Word. She is in disobedience to God as well as any male Pastor who allows this in his church. God cannot and will not call a women into the ministry in any of the context listed above because to do so would make God a liar as He cannot go against His written word. There are many women who are in the ministry who will not accept this. Some have built large ministries and have a large following pulling in much tithes and offerings. Some have even purchased large estates worth millions of dollars and drive very expensive cars and wear expensive jewelry all from the money of the offerings of the church congregation! Are these women the model Christ commands for the other women to have as models?! A profound NO must be given. This shows that these women are refusing to be submissive to their husbands (if married) and to God himself. If a woman is unwilling to submit to God in this issue then she will not be willing to submit to her husband in marriage as Christ also commands that a wife must submit to her husband as unto the Lord in all things. All the verses listed above are very clear and fully supported by the Greek text. There are no scriptures that can counter the ones listed. To do so is to violate the established principles of Biblical interpretation called Hermeneutics.
Now let me say that God has used many women throughout the scriptures and still does today, but never have they been placed in leadership positions within the churches where they would be in authority over a man or in any position to teach Biblical matters in a church environment where men are present. It is very biblical however for the older women to teach the younger women, but not to teach men. Some within the Charasmatic movement charge that there were women Prophets and those who preached the gospel. Yes that is true but preaching the Gospel in public or private places is diferent than being placed in a specific "Leadership" position within the Church. Additionally a "Prophet" or "Prophetess" is NOT a "leadership" position. God simply cannot go against His written Word. It is a rebellious spirit that goes against what God has ordained and God does not ordain women in specific leadership positions nor does He allow a woman to teach or preach God's Word while men are present in a Church environment.
Some Christians make the mistake of assuming that because a Church is growing in numbers, ministries and money that it must be ordained by God and it�s God�s direct blessings. If this is the standard that we measure as to whether or not God is blessing a particular church then we would have to conclude that God must be blessing the Pornography and gambling industry too or any pagan corporation for that matter. That is simply wrong thinking. It is carnal thinking!
God has firmly set in place the roles of men and women within the Church and in the family. The question is. Are we willing to be obedient to God�s Word or are we going to try to justify sinful disobedience to God?! As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord and obey!
This will be my last communication on the subject, clearly you do not understand God nor do you have personal communicaiton with Him, NOT that you are not saved, your just ignorant to the core.
One Pastor says; Those that are dogmatic in excluding women from the ministries of God usually are not walking in the Spirit, as they see women after the flesh (viewing her sex), not after the Spirit (seeing her heart and calling).
The Lord admonishes us in His Word that we are not to look at one another with regard to our sex, race, class or culture, but rather we are to see one another through spiritual eyes.
I say; I suppose you would say these people are ALL false teachers, yet they are doing the effective work of God by His Spirit, not the mind of a silly man who has no understanding.
I guess it safe to say you would feel that you should be King over all and tell everybody what God is saying when you cannot even deliver a simple word of knowledge or prophecy, yet you claim to know that what was spoken is a lie! Ha! the Lord rebuke you then. amen.
Assemblies of God USA -- The Assemblies of God believes women can serve in all roles of church ministry including that of pastor. In a position paper entitled "The Role of Women in Ministry as Described in Holy Scripture," the authors conclude,
"We cannot find convincing evidence that the ministry of women is restricted according to some sacred or immutable principle. ...
The existence in the secular world of bigotry against women cannot be denied.
But there is no place for such an attitude in the body of Christ.
We acknowledge that attitudes of secular society, based on long-standing practice and tradition, have influenced the application of biblical principles to local circumstances."
The Southern Baptist Convention has approximately 1,130 ordained women filling various roles of ministry.
The Church of the Nazarene -- this part of the body has ordained women to the ministry since its founding in 1908 and supports the right of women to use their God-given spiritual gifts within the church. Nazarenes affirm the right of women to be elected and appointed to places of leadership at all levels of the church."
Free Methodist Church of North America -- This is the denomination in which the previous president of the National Association of Evangelicals, Kevin Mannoia, is an ordained bishop. This denomination believes that "the Gospel of Jesus Christ ... knows no distinction of race, condition or sex. ... With these beliefs, women should be encouraged to take their place in all areas of church leadership and ministry. "
Many other churches, fellowships and denominations including the Open Bible Standard Churches, Inc.; International Church of the Foursquare Gospel; The Church of God (Anderson, IN); and others allow women to hold positions of pastoral authority within the local church.
Not only have denominations and local churches advanced the cause of women clergy, but notable religious figures have done their part to popularize this trend as well.
Anne Graham Lotz, daughter of evangelist Billy Graham, is now one of the most popular woman preachers in the world. Lotz recently told one television news program that her parents used to disapprove of her ministry until they heard her preach.
"They saw that my home was clean, my children were well-behaved, my husband was happy and very supportive," she said, "And they just backed off and could see that God had called me."
One group of prominent "evangelical" theologians has formed Christians for Biblical Equality (CBE), an organization in Minneapolis, Minnesota, that zealously promotes equal roles for women in the church and home.
Notable theologians who comprise CBE's Board of Reference include [radical, left-winger] Tony Campolo, Vernon Grounds, Roberta Hestenes, Millard Erickson, Gordon Fee, Myron S. Augsburger and John R. Kohlenberger III.
The Dallas Morning News, which recently featured a story on the CBE, reported that Charisma editor J. Lee Grady is also a supporter of CBE.
The article also noted that Promise Keepers, another "evangelical" parachurch organization, has refused to take an official stance on the role of women in the church and stated that, in turn, "CBE leaders are cautious about criticizing Promise Keepers."
In the Old Testament women were not part of the worship in the Tabernacle/Temple. That was the job of male descendents of the tribe of Levi.
This you say we are to hold to today wherein "women remain silent" and all other such nonsense, you will never get a true woman of God to give you the place of God in her life, wake up! YOU ARE NOT GOD!
1 Peter 3:1-6
Women were instructed by Paul on the teaching of an unbelieving husband.
Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives.
You people don't get it, instructions were written to certain people for certain reasons.
Are you just greedy for power and control? Is that it? I think so, you are puffed up with a false interpertation according to what you want to hear instead of what the Lord really said.
Pheobe (Romans 16:1-2): This woman was a deaconess of the church in Cenchrea, who was beloved of Paul and many other Christians for the help she gave to them. She filled an important position of leadership. It would be a difficult stretch of the imagination to say that this woman fulfilled her duties without ever speaking in the church!
Euodia and Syntyche (Philippians 4:2-3): Here we see reference to two women who were "true yokefellow" and who labored with Paul in the advancement of the gospel.
Junia (Romans 16:7): In this verse we see Paul sending greetings to Andronicus and Junia, his "fellow-prisoners" who are of note among the apostles. Junia is a woman's name.
Though there were other women throughout the Bible in positions of leadership, such as prophetesses, evangelists, judges, leaders, etc.,
Women have always been active in public ministry. On the pages of the New Testament we find mention of many who filled positions of leadership in the first century church.
Acts 2:19 mentions the four virgin daughters of Philip the evangelist as prophetesses who lived in his home at Caesarea, where Paul and his associates visited during his third missionary journey. Priscilla, or Prisca, and her husband Aquilla, were known as fellow-laborers in Christ with the apostle Paul.
Their expertise as teachers enabled them to explain the way of God more accurately to Apollos of Alexandria, another important leader of the early church (Acts 18:25-26).
Another associate of Paul's, Lydia, a seller of purple dye, opened her home for ministry (Acts 16:40), as did many other Christian women in the Roman empire, including the "elect lady" to whom John addressed his second epistle.
The crying need of the hour is for more laborers. It is a trick of the enemy to try to down rate thousands of our faithful laborers just because they were born females.
The Bible says, "Touch not mine anointed and do my prophets no harm." And may we be reminded of the Scripture in Acts 5:39, "If it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God."
Another man says: The Bible teaches that God is not a respecter of persons, and He will use any and all who will yield to Him, regardless of race, age, or sex.
Galatians 3:28 - "...neither male nor female...for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."
Acts 10:34 - "...God is no respecter of persons...."
When someone says, "God does not call women to preach," it is like saying that God does not baptize with the Holy Spirit today.
We know better, because we have witnessed and experienced it with our own ears and eyes.
I would be afraid to condemn women preachers, lest I would be found to be fighting against God, and to be committing the vile sin of attributing the works of the Holy Spirit to the devil.
Women preachers are a fulfillment of Bible Prophecy and another sign of Christ's soon return to earth (Joel 2:28; Acts 2:17-18).
The Bible says in 1 Cor. 14:3, "But he that prophesieth speaketh unto MEN to edification, and exhortation and comfort." (men, meaning ALL mankind).
Anna - Luke 2:36-38. She prophesied in church, she did not depart from the temple.
To condemn women preachers and women church workers is a serious offense, because God has stamped His approval on them by His Spirit over and over again, and who is man to fight against the Spirit of God?
To condemn women preachers and women church workers is in a sense to claim they are doing wrong and committing sin...and all those who support them and listen to them are having a part in that sin; "judge not lest ye be judged, with the measure you use....".
For anyone to do this, he must condemn approximately 99% of all the Spirit-filled believers and the vast majority of all of Christianity.
"Of a truth, I perceive that God is no respecter of persons..." (Acts 10:34). END Quote.
I leave you now to your legalistic views wherein you will say Christ is not the head of a born again believer but man is, this is sick and twisted; Christ is the head and no man will ever be able to take His place.
Women who are born again are bone of His bone and flesh of His flesh; just as in Adam the same was true and is true of any non-believer who is outside of Christ, Christ is the head of ALL believer's, get it straight, you are not God.
Suit yourselves, God is going to do great things through women AND men who have relationship with Him and serve Him and not their stinking flesh.
