Author Thread: What Must I Do To Be Saved?
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What Must I Do To Be Saved?
Posted : 31 May, 2011 12:36 PM

In Reformed Theology, this must be a bummer of a question if asked of them by an unbeliever. After all, the doctrine of Total Depravity would render this question as impossible to answer because man is so totally depraved he can't see past his sin, doesn't have the ability to even consider God, is without hope, and there is absolutely nothing he can do to be saved, much less ask how to be saved.

So why did the unbelieving keeper of the prison ask Paul and Silas, "what must I do to be saved?" And why did they answer, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved"?

Where in the question is Total Depravity? Where in the answer is Irresistible Grace? What, Dear Reformed Theologist, must I do to be saved?

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What Must I Do To Be Saved?
Posted : 2 Jun, 2011 11:33 AM

POIC;

The man is not a corpse, that is a reformation analogy, not Scripture.

If the body cannot live without the spirit then Adam should of dropped dead as soon as he ate the fruit. Since he didn't you need to look at this correctly. Yes man died, they came under the condemnation of death...a death sentence that has not been carried out yet.

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What Must I Do To Be Saved?
Posted : 2 Jun, 2011 12:19 PM

Well dead man is a corpse. Scripture does teach that man is dead. The corpse analogy is not a stretch at all. In fact it's very consistent with death.

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What Must I Do To Be Saved?
Posted : 2 Jun, 2011 12:28 PM

Tiger,

We were just as dead as a man on death row, not a corpse.

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What Must I Do To Be Saved?
Posted : 2 Jun, 2011 12:31 PM

Also, it must be realized when the word 'dead' is used in the favorite verses of the reformer it is used as "dead to" which makes it a metaphor.

A detail often overlooked.

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Posted : 2 Jun, 2011 01:10 PM

That is a decent analogy in this way...



Unregenerate man is dead to spiritual things. A man on death row is dead to freedom. A man on death row cannot give himself freedom and an unregenerate man cannot give himself the Spirit. SO we do not speak of man being dead to ALL things, but a particular thing.

Why? ...that which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of Spirit is Spirit...The Spirit gives life but the flesh counts for nothing...that is why I told you that no one can come to me unless God grants it John 3:3,6 6:63,65



So of course dead men make decisions every day to do sin to to help a neighbor or whatever, because they are alive to the flesh and dead to spiritual things. This is why an unregenerate man can still resist the Spirit. A man on death row can still make decisions with his life. He cannot give choose freedom however.



Notice the solution to man's death in the verse...

4But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ� by grace you have been saved Eph. 2:4-5

So out of His grace, man is made alive. That is the solution...while you were dead, you were made alive. There was nothing man did there...





7But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God...10these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. 11For who knows a person�s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. 13And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.



14The NATURAL PERSON does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is NOT ABLE to understand them because they are SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED.

1 Corinthians 2:7,10-14

So natural man is not dead to everything, but he does not accept spiritual things and he is not even able to. I imagine you would affirm these verses Two.



Can a natural person, left to themselves, even lift a finger toward their own salvation? or have any response whatsoever to the gospel APART FROM the work of the Holy Spirit?

Of course not. Even arminians affirm this. Traditional arminian belief is that without the Spirit granting "prevenient grace" there isn't even a possibility of response. The very necessity of that grace excludes even the possibility of a response by those dead in sin.



Arminians and Calvinists do not disagree on man being dead. That is clear enough from scripture. The difference is whether this working of the Holy Spirit in the heart of the unbeliever prior to salvation is monergistic or synergistic....whether it effectually accomplishes God's intended design or whether such grace can be resisted by man. That is really where we differ, not over the meaning of the phrase "dead in sin".

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What Must I Do To Be Saved?
Posted : 2 Jun, 2011 01:17 PM

As to the debate about God commanding things of people which cannot be done.



Paul says we are to persuade men and to reason with them, which according to scripture is an impossible task. We are still commanded to fulfill the Great Commission are we not?

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What Must I Do To Be Saved?
Posted : 2 Jun, 2011 01:19 PM

@sparrow:



Before YHWH breathed into the mans nostrils,he was just 'Dead'.



Until Yeshua gives 'Life' to a person,they are 'Dead'.Dead men and dead women walking.



Act 9:1 But still breathing threats and murder toward the disciples of the Lord, coming to the high priest,

Act 9:2 Saul asked from him letters to Damascus, to the synagogues, so that if he found any being of the Way, both men and women, having bound them he might bring them to Jerusalem.

Act 9:3 But in the going it happened! He drew near to Damascus, and suddenly a light from the heaven shone around him.

Act 9:4 And falling on the earth he heard a voice saying to him, Saul, Saul! Why do you persecute Me?

Act 9:5 And he said, Sir, who are You? And the Lord said, I am Jesus, whom you persecute; it is hard for you to kick against the goads.







Act 9:6 Both trembling and being astonished he said, Lord, what do You desire me to do?



I want you to REPENT,CONFESS YOUR SINS,BE BAPTIZED,GO TO CHURCH,TITHE,GET involved in Ministry,

feed the poor,etc........





And the Lord said to him, Rise up and go into the city, and it will be told you what you must do.





Shalom



Very sarcastic

Mr.Meanie

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What Must I Do To Be Saved?
Posted : 2 Jun, 2011 01:27 PM

Tiger,

It seems we are in agreement, however it must be noted that a if a corpse cannot accept, neither can it resist. This is why I reject the corpse analogy. I believe it is the Holy Spirit working on the heart of man; how the man responds to this working will show him for what he is, ie : a wheat or a tare.

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What Must I Do To Be Saved?
Posted : 2 Jun, 2011 01:52 PM

That is still not in agreement with scripture:



1 � What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

9 � Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

17 � (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara�s womb:

20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 � Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

1 � Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

6 � For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.





there is a perfect example of a man doing what the lie says man can not do, and he did it without the holy spirit, one only need to believe.

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What Must I Do To Be Saved?
Posted : 2 Jun, 2011 02:07 PM

Hey Phil:



I still Love you.



You are toooooo fuuuuunnnnnnnyyyyyyyy.

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