If man has free will, then how is the Bible the Word of God?
Posted : 25 May, 2011 07:46 PM
Giant said:
The Bible says God is not willing that any should perish.
James replies:
God is not willing that any of HIS ELECT should perish, and they don't.
Giant said:
If God automatically would decide who believes in Him and is thereby saved, He would also be making the decision to send many to Hell without a chance.
James replies:
"send many to Hell without a chance"? People go to Hell, because they sin against God.
God chose whom He would show mercy to, and draw to Himself before the world was made. God could have chosen to save everyone, or no one, and He STILL would have been just.
God has chosen, however, to save some.
Jesus died for all.....the Bible says that a LOT. It is up to every one of us to decide if we believe and except that.
Giant continues:
If God controlled man's wills, than our sins would not be our faults because He would have made us do it.
James replies:
God does not make people sin. Adam and Eve had free will, and they died spiritually when they disobeyed God. Since then ALL mankind is born with a will enslaved to sin.
Romans 9
0And not only so, but(S) also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad�in order that God�s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of(T) him who calls� 12she was told,(U) "The older will serve the younger." 13As it is written,(V) "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
14What shall we say then?(W) Is there injustice on God�s part? By no means! 15For he says to Moses,(X) "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16So then it depends not on human will or exertion,[b] but on God, who has mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh,(Y) "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." 18So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
19You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For(Z) who can resist his will?" 20But who are you, O man,(AA) to answer back to God?(AB) Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?" 21(AC) Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump(AD) one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience(AE) vessels of wrath(AF) prepared for destruction, 23in order to make known(AG) the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he(AH) has prepared beforehand for glory� 24even us whom he(AI) has called,(AJ) not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
giant continues:
The Bible says the serpent/Satan beguiled Eve into eating the fruit of the forbidden tree. If God controlled people's wills, He would be responsible for that too.
James replies:
God is ulitimately responsible for everything that exists, but He is NOT the author of sin.
Giant continues:
God says sin entered the world because of man, but if God controlls wills, sin would have entered the world because of God, which in turn would make God a liar.
James replies:
I repeat, ADAM and EVE HAD free will BEFORE they sinned against God. After that, ALL MANKIND is born with a will enslaved to sin. There are PLENTY of Scriptures that teach this.
Giant continues:
Running on the logic that God controls wills, ends in blaspheming God. Frankly, some of the natural progression of logic here I was not comfortable even typing.
James replies:
Well, you are leaving out The Fall of man! It happened. Please read Genesis again, and slowly this time.
Giant continues:
I can get exact verses for all of this if you want me to.
James replies:
No, you can't. Look at your last statement above......
I can produce Scripture that contradicts what you said, you have ZERO Scriptural support for what you said.
If man has free will, then how is the Bible the Word of God?
Posted : 25 May, 2011 09:00 PM
You might wanna read this slowly
FREE WILL (noun)
power of independent action and choice: the ability to act or make CHOICES as a free and autonomous being and NOT SOLELY as a result of compulsion or predestination.
The holy spirit leads me to do things at times, sense I or no other man is perfect, at times we don't do them! THAT is free will.
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].
IF there is a WAY OUT we have a decision to take it.. if we make a decision we are employing free will!!!
its not rocket surgery there is no GRAY in free will!
I believe we all have a path set to us by the lord, it is up to us if we take it our not.. but I don't believe many if any of us are at the spot on the path the Lord expects us to be... if we where there would be allot more Christians today!
If man has free will, then how is the Bible the Word of God?
Posted : 25 May, 2011 10:41 PM
James says:
God is not willing that any of HIS ELECT should perish, and they don't.
The Bible says:
John 3:15 That WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish , but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the WORLD, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish , but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the WORLD to condemn the WORLD; but that the WORLD through him might be saved .
I point out: "whosoever" and "world" refers to all people.
James says:
God has chosen, however, to save some.
The Bible says:
1 Timothy 1:15 KJV
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save SINNERS; of whom I am chief.
I point out: "sinners" is every man, woman, and child.
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me,ALL ye that labour and are heavy laden , and I will give you rest .
I point out: God says "all" there.
James says:
Since then ALL mankind is born with a will enslaved to sin.
The Bible says:
Matthew 26:41 KJV
Watch and pray , that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
I point out: the spirit "wills" the flesh sins.
We are born with the spirit of man, which has no problem with the lust of our flesh.
1 Corinthians 2:11 KJV
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
When we get saved, we are "born again" and have a new spirit, God's Spirit, sealed inside us.
Ephesians 1:13 KJV
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed , ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
And that Spirit sealed inside us by God upon our salvation, wars with the flesh.
Galations 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would .
I'm afraid James, you don't understand the situation of our spirit and our flesh.
James says:
you have ZERO Scriptural support for what you said.
