There are a number of Scriptures that teach us that the scope of Christ's death was limited to the elect. Here are a few of them:
Just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for MANY (Matthew 20:28).
The "many" for whom Christ died are the elect of God, just as Isaiah had said long before,
By his knowledge my righteous servant will justify MANY, and he will bear their iniquities. (Isaiah 53:11)
The Lord Jesus made it clear that His death was for His people when He spoke of the Shepherd and the sheep:
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep....just as the Father knows me and I know the Father---and I lay down my life for THE SHEEP (John 10:11, 15).
The good Shepherd lays down His life in behalf of the sheep. Are all men the sheep of Christ? Certainly not, for most men do not know Christ, and Christ says that His sheep know Him (John 10:14). Further, Jesus specifically told the Jews who did not believe in Him, "but you do not believe because you are not my sheep" (John 10:26). Note that in contrast with the idea that we believe and therefore make ourselves Christ's sheep, Jesus says that they do not believe because they are not His sheep! Whether one is of Christ's sheep is the Father's decision (John 6:37, 8:47), not the sheep's!
...just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for US as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God....husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up FOR HER to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless (Ephesians 5:2, 25-27).
Christ gave Himself in behalf of His Church, His Body, and that for the purpose of cleansing her and making her holy. If this was His intention for the Church, why would He give Himself for those who are not of the Church? Would He not wish to make these "others" holy as well? Yet, if Christ died for all men, there are many, many who will remain impure for all eternity. Was Christ's death insufficient to cleanse them? Certainly not. Did He have a different goal in mind in dying for them? [I am not here denying that the death of Christ had effects for all men, indeed, for all of creation. I believe that His death is indeed part of the "summing up of all things" in Christ. But, we are speaking here solely with the salvific effect of the substitutionary atonement of Christ. One might say that Christ's death has an effect upon those for whom it was not intended as an atoning sacrifice.] No, His sacrificial death in behalf of His Church results in her purification, and this is what He intended for all for whom He died.
He who did not spare His own Son, but gave him up for us all---how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring a charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died---more than that, who was raised to life---is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us (Romans 8:32-34).
The Father gave the Son in our place. Who is the "our" of this passage? The text says that it is "those whom God has chosen," that is, the elect of God. Again, the intercessory work of Christ at the right hand of the Father is presented in perfect harmony with the death of Christ---those for whom Christ died are those for whom He intercedes. And, as this passage shows, if Christ intercedes for someone, who can possibly bring a charge against that person and hope to see them condemned? So we see what we have seen before: Christ dies in someone's place, He intercedes for them, and they are infallibly saved. Christ's work is complete and perfect. He is the powerful Savior, and He never fails to accomplish His purpose.
Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for HIS FRIENDS (John 15:13).
Are all the friends of Christ? Do all own His name? Do all bow before Him and accept Him as Lord? Do all do His commandments (John 15:14)? Then not all are His friends.
While we wait for the blessed hope---the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself FOR US to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good (Titus 2:13-14).
Both the substitutionary element of the cross (gave himself for us) and the purpose thereof (to redeem us...to purify) are forcefully presented to Titus. If it was the purpose of Christ to redeem and purify those for whom He died, can this possibly not take place?
She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save HIS PEOPLE from their sins (Matthew 1:21).
Christ will save His people from their sins Well, did He? Did He save His people, or did He not?
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me (Galatians 2:20).
This is the common confession of every true believer in Christ. We died with Him, our Substitute, the one who loved us and gave Himself in our behalf.
We have seen, then, that the Word teaches that Christ died for many, for His sheep, for the Church, for the elect of God, for His friends, for a people zealous for good works, for His people, for each and every Christian.
And they sang a new song: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation. You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.
Revelation 5:9-10
This verse shows us that Jesus ACTUALLY PAID FOR the sins of His people AT the cross.
And it shows that Jesus purchased MEN FROM every nation, not EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO EVER LIVED.
Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery. For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham.
Hebrews 2:14-16
James replies:
Who does Jesus Die for? The offspring of Abraham.
NOT every single person who ever lived!
What are we up to now? Ten verses of Scripture that say WHO Jesus died for and NONE of them say He died for every single person who ever lived.
How many times does God have to say something before you will accept it?
I know the verses that Arminians use to say that Jesus died for everyone.
The "world" verses.
John 3:16 and 1 John 2:2
But IF...........the "world" in those verses means "everyone who ever lived", then I have just given TEN verses that CONTRADICT that interpretation!
SO, what will you do?????
Will you keep on demanding that Jesus died for everyone and IGNORE ALL the verses that teach that Jesus died for a particular group of people???
I don't have a problem because I don't make the Bible contradict itself by bad interpretation.
Notice, I asked twosparrows on another thread if he agreed that unclear verses should be interpreted in light of the clear verses.
He said, "YES".
And here we are now, and ALL the Arminian view has, is two verses with the word "world" in them, While I have shown TEN that show CLEARLY that Jesus died for a GROUP of people.
What is SO bad about Jesus coming to Earth to die for a group of people that God has given to Him? This group is more than anyone can number, and again I ask you what is SO bad about that?
So...are you saying here that You are part of Abrahams Offspring...the Elect ? or are You saying that You are Not Saved ?...Just a Yes or No will be ok...keep it simple for us All...xo
I posted for you a explanation that reconciles "ALL" Scripture, complete with a analogy (Rebate post). However you would rather pick and chose which scriptures to believe. Aren't you the one always accusing people of ignoring certain scriptures and saying Scripture must not contradict? I show you how "ALL" Scripture agrees and you get angry about it? Totally a sign that you seek not the truth, but only what agrees with your preconceived doctrines.
James,
The sin issue is settled, finshed, done, period, the law fulfilled for "All Men" and the "Whole World"......
......."Whosoever" believes this and repents turning to Jesus becomes the elect, the many, His friends, His sheep, the Body of Christ, the Bride of Christ, the Church which is ........
........foreknown, predestined, justified, glorified, called and adopted as sons in Him.
James wrote - "I have already posted TWICE on sharing the gospel on this forum. the first time was a list of do's and don'ts when sharing the gospel."
What you posted was stuff written by other people. Do you really follow other people's do's and don'ts when it comes to sharing the Gospel with the lost? Don't you use the Word of God and the leading of the Holy Spirit, without a list of what you should or shouldn't say or should or shouldn't do, based on some writings of some person?
James wrote - "You asked If I tell non-Christians that Jesus loves them,and the answer is NO. ONLY Arminians do that."
Wow.... Maybe I don't get out enough, but you are the first Christian I have ever talked to that does not share the love of God with a lost and dying world. I find it very sad that you don't.
James wrote - "You should now 71 that I went door to door one night a week for THREE years sharing the gospel with people."
And your point is...? I have to still wonder though how you DO share the Gospel of Christ if you don't include God's love.
James wrote - "These verses are written to people who are ALREADY Christians, and it is NOT concerning sharing the gospel with non-believers."
Right. Even though we read "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners" and Paul said this was "worthy of all acceptation". And even though Paul wrote that "Christ died for the ungodly". And the many other Scriptures which give reference to Christ dying for the sins of the world. This can only be for the 'elect'. So I guess you leave that part out of your sharing the Gospel as well, huh? So far, you don't share God's love with a lost and dying world and you don't share the Cross or Christ dying for the ungodly sinners in a lost and dying world. What hope do you offer? When you take away God's love and Christ dying for sinners, what is there left of the Gospel of Christ to share?
James wrote - ""all" means ALL of the sheep, ALL of God's elect."
So YOU say.
James wrote - "71, if you demand that God wants every person who ever lived to be saved, then YOU have a god that can't do what he wants to do. Have you ever thought about that??"
This does not limit God. Nor does it change the fact that God wills that all would be saved. Because you don't believe man has the choice to refuse God, anything else puts limits on God in your mind. Let me show you again a Scripture in which Jesus calls a man to follow Him, and this man rejects Christ's offer...
And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions. -Mark 10:17,21-22
Wow.. Jesus loved this sinner, who through his own choice, rejected Him. How you can say that Jesus' love is not for all, including those who reject Him, is beyond my comprehension.
James wrote - "as long as you know "the world" means "people from all over the world"."
Maybe God should've been more clear or descriptive when using the word "world" for those of us who believe the world includes all the inhabitants thereof. :rolleyes: Maybe God should've just replaced "all" and "world" with 'elect'. Maybe John should've written, 'Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the elect'. Or maybe, 'For God so loved the elect, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever elect that believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the elect to condemn the elect; but that the elect through him might be saved'. Maybe Jesus should've used the word 'elect' instead of "world" in the following... 'And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the elect, but to save the elect'.
Let me ask you something James... How do you know you are truly one of the 'elect' according to your view/belief. If one were to ask you what one Scripture you can offer to confirm your salvation according to your Calvinistic belief, which would it be?
So...are you saying here that You are part of Abrahams Offspring...the Elect ? or are You saying that You are Not Saved ?...Just a Yes or No will be ok...keep it simple for us All...xo
Additional reasons Jesus could not have died for everyone who ever lived.
# God punishes people in hell, which would be unjust if their sins were atoned for
# Mark 9:43-44 If one were to say, �their sins are atoned for, but that atonement is not applied because of unbelief,� he fails to realize that unbelief is likewise a sin
# Heb 3:12 [�The Father imposed His wrath due unto, and the Son underwent punishment for either: 1) All the sins of all men; 2) All the sins of some men; or 3) Some of the sins of all men. In which case it may be said: 1) If the last be true all men have some sins to answer for, and so none are saved; 2) That if the second be true, then Christ, in their stead suffered for all the sins of the elect in the whole world, and this is the truth; 3) But if the first is the case, why are not all men free from the punishment due unto their sins? You answer, Because of unbelief. I ask, Is this unbelief a sin, or is it not? If it be, then Christ suffered the punishment due unto it, or He did not. If He did, why must that hinder them more than their other sins for which He died? If He did not, He did not die for all their sins!� � John Owen, The Death of Death in the Death of Christ] God bears eternal wrath against people, which by definition means that his wrath against them has not been propitiated [appeased]
