I asked James the following question...Does God love all of mankind or just those He has set aside for salvation? James replied -
"God shows some love to all, and all love to some. That is accurate according to what we see in life, and in Scripture. But NO, God does NOT love everyone the way He loves His chosen people. "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated", Remember? So, the answer you were looking for is NO."
I'm beginning to believe that the Calvanist, in order to cling to their doctrine of selective or elect only salvation, must rely on the belief that God does not love all mankind, therefore He must "hate" those who will not become elect. This is how they can conclude that John 3:16 does not include the "world" and "whosoever" in relation to "God so loved...." I'm also seeing Romans 9:13 being used as the cornerstone of this doctrine as if it somehow seals their argument that God does not love all of mankind..."As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." Personally, I believe this is a gross misinterpretation of Scripture, and I'm not sure where to even start in order to argue such a doctrine that believes 'God hates'.
Jesus told us in Luke 14:26 - "If any [man] come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." Was Jesus really telling us to "hate" our parents, siblings and children? The same word "hate" used in Luke 14 is that used in Romans 9:13. No, Jesus wasn't telling us to "hate" them as He gave us the command to - "Honour thy father and [thy] mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." So what is the Lord telling us? He is telling us that, "He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." I believe the word "hate" as used in Romans 9:13 and Luke 14:26 is not defined as the hate that would be opposite of love. The passage in Luke 14 is simply telling us to not put our family [or anyone] before the Lord. It doesn't mean to "hate" them, as it is also written, "If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?" And it's my belief that God did not hate Esau as the Calvanist would have you believe in order to push their doctrine, but that God preferred Jacob over Esau. God had told Isaac that the great nation Israel was to come through Jacob, not Esau. And it would be in Jacob�s seed [not Esau's] to which the Messiah would come. Furthermore, if you read Malachi 1, from which Paul pulled his verse in Romans 9:13, Jacob is Israel and Esau is Edom. They are represented in nations. And God does show His anger and hatred for nations in that the sin that is evident in them. It doesn't mean He hates the individuals of those nations no more than He hates the individuals of Israel, yet hates the sin therein as we see time and again throughout Scripture. But nowhere do I find God displaying any hatred toward Esau [the individual]. There is simply no indication anywhere in the narrative of Esau's life that gives any impression that God "hated" him.
It really gets on my last nerve when a believer holds to a doctrine and attempts to push it, that believes "God is love" only to "the elect". Mark 10:21 gives an account of a rich young ruler that chose to walk away from Christ. He rejected Christ. But what did Jesus do? "Jesus beholding him loved him". Jesus loved him, this person who was Hell bound for rejecting to follow Him. If you ask me, this is more in line with a God who wishes all to come to salvation, invites even those who will reject the offer, and loves them regardless their decision, instead of a God that loves only the "elect" or those He has created for salvation, while having no love for those bound for Hell.
It also bothers me to no end when a doctrine is pushed that believes Christ died for only a select amount and refuses the Scriptures that refer to Him as the Savior of the World. As I've said before, it cheapens the Cross and His death. It makes it of no effect to some. I don't even know how a person with this belief can witness. How they can share the "Good News", the Gospel, Christ crucified. True, we don't know who will accept Jesus and who won't, but how can the Calvanist tell a person that Christ died for them if they [the person they are talking to] turn out to be not of the "elect"? They just fed the non-believing sinner the biggest religious lie ever, because Christ did not die for them, but only for those who will accept His sacrifice. So, would God have them lie about His Son?
How do you do it, James? Do you preach the Cross? Even knowing that you might be preaching to one who turns out to be "non-elect", in which case your preaching of the Cross is a lie where they are concerned, because Christ really didn't die for 'them'? How do you testify of the love of God, knowing that the one you are speaking to is possibly one who is not "elect", thereby again, the possibility of lying to them that God is love, because God only loves His "elect"? Where is your Gospel in this?
For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom FOR ALL, to be testified in due time. - 1 Timothy 2:5,6
For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save [them]. - Luke 9:56
Jesus rebuked James and John for wanting to 'consume' those who would not receive Him, saying, "Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of." The Calvinist would do well to take heed and not be so willing to believe that Christ did not die for all sinners, whether they accept Him or not.
James, that is absolutely insane! God knows my name, your name, Two's name, Chevy's name, Margo's name, and every believer on earth. He holds us all in the shadow of His wing. I have never been "eaten by the wolf", nor has He ever let go of me. What is your point except to lash out with false words because there are those of us who do not agree with your doctrine and are willing to stand up against it? Is this how you "[give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear"?
If you want to know what is more loving, I'll tell you. "Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son [to be] the propitiation for our sins." 1 John 4:10. John 3:16. Include all the world. Include whosoever. And you'll find a more loving God than the one you present that creates men destined for hell and then hates them because of it. Geesh....
PJ, The previous posts were talking about attitude, not doctrine. ..but go ahead and put any spin on it that you want to. You have labeled your own fellow Christians. No one I know puts any faith in man. They and I profess, trust and know that Jesus Christ is the only way to eternal life. It is unfortunate that you feel that way.
It has nothing to do with feelings, and nothing to do with labels, I know Calvinism to be a lie in it's entirety, there is clear distinction between hating the lies and loving the people.
The lord said out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh,
I do not see Jesus anywhere in Calvinism, he can not be a part of any lies.
