At one time dead was pretty cut and dry, that was until Jesus taught about being 'born again', rose from the dead, gave us the Holy Spirit to make us alive and told us about the second death. Before all this; death basically just meant literal physical death, ie : a corpse. Or one could use the word figuratively like being 'dead to something', kinda like a best friend that slept with your spouse; that friendship would be 'dead to you'.
So let's look at the new meanings 'dead' has taken on in the New Testament :
Literal meanings :
*physical = the death of the body (first death)
*spiritual = the death of the spirit (second death)
Figurative meanings :
*physical = the body is condemned to die or has a incurable injury/disease
*physical = dead to something physical (like liver pudding)
*spiritual = the spirit is condemned to die or cannot keep itself alive
*spiritual = dead to something spiritual (like things of God)
*spiritual = not being born again (regeneration by the Holy Spirit)
This should all be kept in mind when reading the Scriptures bounced around in the forum lately ; )
In light of the above it should be easy to understand the Christian saying:
Yes, we should. In fact this is something I am currently struggling with. To keep it simple or to untangle complex interpretations that mislead people. I am all for keeping it simple, I am a man that LOVES the lowest common denominator, simple truths shortly expressed in simple words! That is what Jesus did. For some reason I have a desire to show people that preach 247/246, if they would interpret the 247 as 246 they could preach 1. Maybe this is wrong or maybe it is a calling, I don't know.
EPH 2:1 ~ As for you, you were dead In your transgressions and sins,
MATT 8:22 ~ But Jesus told them "Follow me and let the dead bury their own dead"
JOHN 7:39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.
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The 3 scriptures :
1st verse Eph ~ some say dead means literally spiritually dead...right
James replies:
You talk about various definitions of the word "dead" and you never even MENTION the word "context".
Context is HOW we get a definition for how the authors uses the word.
In Ephesians 2 The subject Paul is teaching is That we are saved by GRACE through faith.
This contradicts the Arminian idea of being saved by our "choosing to chose Jesus" idea. You cut off the FIRST PART of that verse....
Eph.2:1 "and you HE MADE ALIVE" So, if you read the whole section, you see that Paul is saying that GOD made us alive spiritually, when we were DEAD spiritually. Paul even says,
we were "by NATURE, children of wrath".
So, this IS talking about our nature, and NOT physical death.
twosparrows continues:
2nd verse Matt ~ Jesus says : let the spiritually dead bury the physical dead.... right?
Implying that the one who follows him is spiritually alive...right?
Jsmes replies:
Yes, the ONLY people who will follow Jesus, HAVE ALREADY BEEN MADE ALIVE BY THE HOLY SPIRIT. Ephesians 2:8,9 says that FAITH itself is a gift from God, so that "no one can boast" about their supposed decision, or works.
Twosparrows said:
So how does one become spiritually alive?.....regeneration by the Holy Spirit...right?
James replies:
Yes, that is correct.
Twosparrows continues:
Opps, something doesn't fit because of the third verse in John
3rd verse John ~ The Holy Spirit had not been given until after Jesus was glorified.
James replies:
No, Jesus was speaking of Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit would enter into a more intimate relationship with believers.
see: john 14:17 and 1 Cor.6:19
If you need verses that show that the Holy Spirit was present in the Old Testament period, I can supply them, but I think you already know the Holy Spirit was present then.
Pentecost was a entirely new level of relationship with believers.
Twosparrows continues:
*The only way to reconcile these three verses is to say spiritually dead is a figurative term, not a literal term.
James don't bail on me now!
James replies:
At some point, Twosparrows, you need to realize what an unfair debate this is. You are going on religious hunches, and I rely on the collective wisdom of Christians for two thousand years.
A very sick man can still pick up the phone and call an ambulance or a doctor. A DEAD man, can not do anything at all.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Why is it you must take everything to the extreme? That is exactly what Calvinism does. You are dear Sir, a extremist!
For example you say the Arminians "choose to to choose Jesus"
By exaggerating to the extreme once again you're not in the truth. No one says they choose to choose Jesus, they say they have "accepted Jesus"....accepted Grace through Faith....big difference.
With all due respect James, I read your answer twice and looked up your Scripture references, and you accuse me of "riding on hunches" you answer was a big "what if" and again just like your doctrine, goes beyond scripture. If you would be silent where scripture is silent, we would be in agreement.
James, my exegesis is sound. The word "dead" in Eph is figurative as the spirit of man has yet to die the second death. It is so simple that only one with preconceived doctrine would not see it.
