Login Create New Account
Author Thread: Scripture List: Unconditional Election
Admin


Scripture List: Unconditional Election
Posted : 2 Feb, 2011 11:45 AM

2. UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION



Because of Adam's transgression, his descendants enter the world as

guilty, lost sinners. As fallen creatures, they have no desire to

have fellowship with the creator. Left to their own choices, they

inevitably follow the god of this world. It would have been

perfectly just for God to have left all men in their sin and misery

and to have shown mercy to none. God was under no obligation

whatsoever to provide salvation for anyone. The doctrine of election

declares that God, before the foundation of the world, chose certain

individuals from among the fallen members of Adam's race to be the

objects of His undeserved favor. These and these only , He purposed

to save. God could have chosen to save all men (for he had the power

and authority to do so) or He could have chosen to save none (for He

was under no obligation to save any)--but He did neither. Instead he

chose to save some and to exclude others. His choice of particular

sinners unto salvation was not based upon any foreseen act or

response on the part of those selected, but was based solely on His

own good pleasure and sovereign will. It is not within the

creature's jurisdiction to call into question the justice of of the

creator for not choosing every one to salvation. It is enough to know

that the judge of the earth has done right. It should, however, be

kept in mind that if God had not graciously chosen a people for

himself and sovereignly determined to provide salvation for them and

apply it to them, NONE WOULD BE SAVED. The fact that he did this for

some, to the exclusion of others, is in no way unfair to the latter

group, unless of course one maintains that God was under obligation

to provide salvation for all sinners---a position which the Bible

utterly rejects.

The act of election ITSELF saved no one; what it did was to mark out

certain individuals for salvation. Consequently, the doctrine of

election must not be divorced from the doctrines of human guilt,

redemption, and regeneration or else it will be distorted and mis-

represented. In other words, if it is to be understood correctly,

the Father's act of election must be related to the redeeming work of

the Son, who gave himself to save the elect and to the renewing work

of the Spirit who brings the elect to faith in Christ!





A. General statements showing that God has an elect people, that He

pre-destined them to salvation, and thus to eternal life.



Deuteronomy 10:14,15: Behold, to the Lord your God belong heaven and

the heaven of heavens, the earth with all that is in it; yet THE LORD

SET HIS HEART IN LOVE upon your fathers and CHOSE their descendants

after them, you above all peoples, as at this day.



Psalm 33:12: Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord, the people

whom he has CHOSEN as his heritage!

Psalm 65:4: Blessed is he whom thou dost CHOOSE and bring near,

to dwell in thy courts! We shall be satisfied with the goodness of

thy house, thy holy temple!

Haggai 2:23: "On that day, says the Lord of hosts, I will take you O

Zerubbabel my servant, the son of Shealtiel, says the Lord, and make

you like a signet ring; for I have CHOSEN you, says the Lord of

hosts."



Matthew 11:27: "...no one knows the Father except the Son and any

one whom the Son CHOOSES to reveal him."

Matthew 22:14: "For many are called, but few are CHOSEN."

Matthew 24:22,24,31: And if those days had not been shortened, no

human being would be saved; but for the sake of the ELECT those days

will be shortened...For false Christs and false prophets will arise

and show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible

even the ELECT... and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet

call, and the will gather HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end

of the earth to the other.



Luke 18:7: And will not God vindicate HIS ELECT, who cry out to him

day and night?



Romans 8:28-30: WE know that in everything God works for Good with

those that love him, who are CALLED ACCORDING TO HIS PURPOSE.

for those whom he foreknew he also PREDESTINED to be conformed to the

image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many

brethren. And those whom he predestined he also called; and those

whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he

also glorified.

Romans 8:33: Who shall bring any charge against God's ELECT?

Romans 11:28: As regards the gospel, they are enemies of God, for

your sake; but as regards ELECTION they are beloved for the sake of

their forefathers.



Colossians 3:12: Put on then, as God's CHOSEN ONES, holy and

beloved, compassion, kindness,...



1 Thessalonians 5:9: For God has not DESTINED US for wrath, BUT TO

OBTAIN SALVATION through our Lord Jesus Christ.



Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to

further the faith of GOD'S ELECT and their knowledge of the truth

which accords with godliness...



1 Peter 1:1,2: To the exiles of the dispersion...CHOSEN and DESTINED

by God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obediance to Jesus

Christ and for sprinkling with his blood...

1 Peter 2:8,9...For they stumble because they disobey the word, as

they were DESTINED to do. But you are a CHOSEN RACE, a royal

priesthood, a holy nation, God's own people, that you may declare the

wonderful deeds of him who CALLED you out of the darkness into his

marvelous light.



Revelation 17: 14: "They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb

will conquer them, for he is Lord of Lords and King of Kings, and

those with him are CALLED and CHOSEN and faithful."





B. Before the foundation of the world, God chose particular

individuals unto salvation. His selection was NOT BASED ON ANY

FORESEEN REPONSE OR ACT PERFORMED BY THOSE CHOSEN. Faith and good

works are the result, not the cause of God's choice.



1. God did the choosing.

Mark 13:20: And if the Lord had not shortened the days, no human

being would be saved; but for the sake of THE ELECT, WHOM HE CHOSE,

he shortened the days.







2. God's choice was made before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:4: Even as he CHOSE us in him BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF

THE WORLD, that we should be holy and blameless before him.

(see: 2 Thess. 1:4 and 2 Thess. 2:13 quoted below)



3. God chose particular individuals unto salvation-their names were

written in the book of life before the foundation of the world.



Revelation 13:8: And all those who dwell on the earth will worship

it, every one whose name has not been WRITTEN BEFORE THE FOUNDATION

OF THE WORLD in the book of life of the Lamb that was slain.

Revelation 17:8: "...and the dwellers on earth whose NAMES have not

been WRITTEN in the book of life FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD,

will marvel to behold the beast, because it was and is not and is to

come."



4. God's choice was not based upon any foreseen merit residing in

those whom He chose, nor was it based on any foreseen good works

performed by them.



Romans 9:11-13: Though they were NOT YET BORN AND HAD DONE NOTHING

EITHER GOOD OR BAD, in order that God's purpose of ELECTION might

continue, NOT BECAUSE OF WORKS but because of his CALL, she was told,

"The elder will serve the younger." As it is written, "Jacob I loved,

but Esau I hated."

Romans 9:16: So it depends NOT UPON MAN'S WILL OR EXERTION, but upon

God's MERCY.

Romans 10:20: "...I have been found by those who did not seek me; I

have shown myself to those who did not ask for me."



1 Corinthians 1:27-29: God CHOSE what is FOOLISH in the world to

shame the wise, God CHOSE what is WEAK in the world to shame the

strong, God CHOSE what is LOW and DESPISED in the world, even things

that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, SO THAT NO HUMAN

BEING MIGHT BOAST IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD.



2 Timothy 1:9: ....who saved us and called us with a holy calling not

in virtue of OUR WORKS but in virtue of HIS OWN PURPOSE and the GRACE

which he gave us in Christ Jesus AGES AGO.





5. Good works are the result, not the ground, of predestination.



Ephesians 2:10: For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus

FOR GOOD WORKS, which God PREPARED BEFOREHAND, that we should walk in

them.

Ephesians 1:12: We who first hoped in Christ have been DESTINED AND

APPOINTED to live for the praise of his glory.



John 15:16: You did not choose me, but I CHOSE YOU and APPOINTED YOU

that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide;

so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.





6. God's choice was not based upon foreseen faith. Faith is the

result and therefore the evidence of God's election, not the cause or

ground of His choice.



Acts 13:48: And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and

glorified the word of God; and as many as were ORDAINED to eternal

life BELIEVED.

Acts 18:27: ...he greatly helped those who THROUGH GRACE HAD BELIEVED.



Philippians 1:29: For it has been GRANTED to you that for the sake

of Christ you should not only BELIEVE in him but also suffer for his

sake.

Philippians 2:12,13: Therefore, my beloved, as you have always

obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my

absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; FOR GOD

IS AT WORK IN YOU, BOTH TO WILL AND TO WORK FOR HIS GOOD PLEASURE.



1 Thessalonians 1:4,5: For WE KNOW, brethren beloved by god, that he

has chosen you; FOR OUR GOSPEL CAME TO YOU not only in word, but also

IN POWER and IN THE HOLY SPIRIT and WITH FULL CONVICTION.

2 Thessalonians 2:13,14: ...GOD CHOSE YOU FORM THE BEGINNING TO BE

SAVED, THROUGH sanctification by the Spirit and BELIEF IN THE TRUTH.

To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the

glory of our Lord Jesus Christ



James 2:5:...Has not God CHOSEN those who are poor in the world TO BE

RICH IN FAITH and HEIRS OF THE KINGDOM which he has promised to those

who love him?





7. It is by faith and good works that one confirms his calling and

election.





2 Peter 1:5-11: For this very reason make every effort to supplement

your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, and knowledge with

self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness

with godliness, and godliness with brotherly affection, and

brotherly affection with love.......Therefore, brethren, be the more

zealous TO CONFIRM YOUR CALL AND ELECTION, for if you do this you

will never fall........







C. Election is not salvation but is UNTO salvation. Just as the

president elect does not become the president of the united states

UNTIL he is inaugurated, those chosen unto salvation are not saved

UNTIL they are regenerated by the Spirit and justified by faith in

Christ.





Romans 11:7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it sought.

THE ELECT OBTAINED IT, but the rest were hardened.



2 Timothy 2:10: Therefore I endure everything for the sake of

THE ELECT, that they also MAY OBTAIN THE SALVATION which in Christ

Jesus goes with eternal glory.



From Romans 16:7 it is clear that men are not actually "in Christ"

until their conversion.



D. Election was based on the sovereign, distinguishing mercy of Al-

mighty God. It was not on man's will but God's will that determined

which sinners would be shown mercy and saved.





Exodus 33:19: "...I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and

will show mercy on whom I will show mercy."



Deuteronomy 7:6,7: For you are a people holy to the LOrd your God;

the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for his own possession

out of all the peoples of the earth. It was not because you were

more in number than any other people that the Lord set his love upon

you and chose you, for you were the fewest of all peoples.



Matthew 20:15: "Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what

belongs to me?..."



Romans 9:10-24.......I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I

will have compassion on whom I have compassion, So it depends not

upon man's will or exertion, but upon God's mercy.....He has mercy

upon whomever he wills...Has the potter no right over the

clay...Vessels of mercy which he has prepared beforehand...



( one of my favorite Christian rock bands is "Jars of Clay"!)



See also Romans 11:4-6

Romans 11:33-36

Ephesians 1:5





E. The doctrine of Election is but a part of the much broader

Biblical doctrine of God's absolute sovereignty. The Scriptures not

only teach that God predestined certain individuals unto eternal

life, but that all events, both great and small, come about as the

result of God's eternal decree. The Lord God rules over heaven and

earth with absolute control; NOTHING COMES TO PASS APART FROM HIS

ETERNAL PURPOSE.



1 Chronicles 29:10-12: Therefore David blessed the Lord in the

presence of all the assembly; and David said; "Blessed art thou O

Lord, the God of Israel our Father, for ever and ever.

Thine, O Lord, is the greatness, and power, and glory, and the

victory, and the majesty; for all that is in the heavens and in the

earth is thine, thine is the kingdom, O Lord, and thou art exalted

above all. Both riches and honor come from thee, and THOU RULEST

OVER ALL. IN thy hand are power and might; and in thy hand it is to

make great and to give strength to all.



JOB 42:1,2: Then Job answered the Lord: "I know that thou canst do

all things, and that no purpose of thine can be thwarted."



Psalm 115:3: Our God is in the heavens; he does whatever he pleases.



Psalm 135:6: Whatever the Lord pleases he does, in heaven and on

earth, in the sea and all deeps.



Isaiah 14:24,27: The Lord of hosts has sworn: "As I have planned,

so shall it be, and as I have purposed, so shall it stand....For

the Lord of hosts has purposed, and who will annul it?

His hand is stretched out, and who will turn it back?"



Isaiah 46:9-11: "Remember the former things of old; for I am God,

declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not

yet done, saying, 'My counsel shall stand and I will accomplish my

purpose, calling a bird of prey from the East, the man of my counsel

from a far country. I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass;

I have purposed, and I will do it. "



Jeremiah 32:17: Ah Lord God! It is thou who hast made the heavens and

the earth by thy great power and by thy outstretched arm! nothing is

too hard for thee.



Daniel 4:35: All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as

nothing; and he does according to his will in the host of heaven and

among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand or say

to him "What doest thou?"



Matthew 19:26: "...with God all things are possible."









Sincerely,



James

Post Reply



View Profile
History
Scripture List: Unconditional Election
Posted : 3 Feb, 2011 10:50 AM

dgrimater said:





Ok I am game here, I will stick my neck out.



What would have happened had Saul----- ( paul) refused jesus on the damascus road?



James replies:



In the middle of the Day, WHILE saul was going to KILL Christians, God lights up a blinding light and speaks to him Audibly, and then sends a dream to Ananias and tells him who to look for and where, and also tells Paul in a dream who is coming to see him, so they can EACH confirm it with each other!



God BLINDED Paul for THREE DAYS!!!!



So much for free will on that one!



This is what the Bible says happens, in order:



1. Fallen sinful man with will enslaved to sin, and totally spiritually dead, has been chosen by God before the world was made.

2. Holy Spirit comes to man, and MAKES him INTO a new Creature with a NEW will.



3. Man, who is now spiritually alive, DESIRES to repent and trust in Jesus, and man does so.



4. God CAUSES his chosen people to persevere to the end, which is either physical death, or the Lord returning.



dgrimater continues:



What about the jews they are Gods chosen people. They chose to reject God and the church was adapted in?



James replies:



God just expands His chosen people (from our viewpoint) as time goes on. First it was Abraham, then the Jews, and then When the Messiah came, it was expanded to ALL KINDS of people from ALL OVER THE WORLD. (John 3:16)





dgrimater continues:



What if I decided to follow Jesus but I am not the elect?



Then am I wasting my time?





James replies:



No one BUT the elect will follow Jesus, and if you are trusting in Christ, then the Bible says you ARE saved.



There is no such thing as losing your salvation, because YOU didn't get it in the first place!



You repented and trusted in Jesus?



Well, Ephesians 2:8,9 says that faith itself is a gift from God.



GOD has saved you! God who has started a good work in you will complete it!



Yes, we as Christians should examine ourselves from time to time, to see if we are in the faith. The Question is, "Am I truly born again?"



But please don't lose sight of the FACT that fallen mankind does NOT want to repent and trust in Jesus. I have had extremely honest types tell me that they didn't want to go to heaven because there was no sin there!



The ONLY people who want to follow Jesus and trust in Him, ARE ALREADY born again, by the Holy Spirit.



Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.



Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.





Leon and James I ask you these questions.



I am curious.



James replies:



Here is one for you dgrimater:



Question: In Acts the Apostles were preaching to a CROWD of people. Out of this crowd, EXACTLY how many accepted Jesus?





Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Post Reply



View Profile
History
Scripture List: Unconditional Election
Posted : 3 Feb, 2011 11:30 AM

if you are speaking about the speech of peter and John over 3,000 in one day. The one you gave me in a verse was all that got saved.



I asked you these questions to find out what you really think. I know some accuse and call names. I wanted to make sure I did not do that here. So, if we disagreed it would be just a disagreement. Over all, I just disagree with you on one point.

if you beieve in once saved always saved I would question that. That is the only thing I disagree with your reply.

Dennis

Post Reply



View Profile
History
Scripture List: Unconditional Election
Posted : 3 Feb, 2011 11:41 AM

James you keep saying what the bible says, and we can see for ourselves what it says, and it does not agree with you, so where is the misunderstanding?



Are we to believe that you are the word of God.



Dennis why would you say you agree with this unbelief?

Post Reply



View Profile
History
Scripture List: Unconditional Election
Posted : 3 Feb, 2011 12:01 PM

I was speaking on the answers to my questions.

There is a difference between unbelief and personal opinions.

I did say I disagree with the once saved always saved idea.

Do you have a problem with that. Until I am walking through the gate to heaven I am not eternalling safe.

Only those in heaven can say they are truely saved.

Post Reply



View Profile
History
Scripture List: Unconditional Election
Posted : 3 Feb, 2011 12:36 PM

Dennis,



I don't really like the phrase "Once saved, always saved."



The classic historic doctrine is called



"The perseverance of the Saints."



The saying "Once saved, always saved" is a Baptist saying, and it is a problem because the Baptists ALSO teach the Decisional idea in Salvation.



In other words, in Baptist churches you "walk the Aisle".



You stand up in front of church, and say, "Yes I believe in Jesus".



Well, here is the problem, those two things together, have been used as an excuse for people who are not saved, to rationalize that they are.



They went in front of the church when they were young, and many years later they don't attend church, and have no evidence in their lives of being born again, and if you ask them about it, you get:



"Hey, I walked the Aisle, once saved, ALWAYS saved, buddy!"



That is why it is a bad idea. I was a member of a Baptist church as a new Christian, and it was a wonderful place to be filled with many great Christians. But the way they combine those two things is not the best way to do it.



And you might have guessed that since "The Perseverance of the Saints, IS one of the five points, that I DO have a scripture list, for that point.





I think you can see how these things are hooked together.



IF.....God chose His own people for Himself before the world was made.



AND....none of God's purposes can be thwarted.



And....God had Jesus die for them specifically.



And....had the Holy Spirit come and make each one of them alive spiritually.



THEN....naturally, God has decided to CAUSE His people to persevere to the end.



And yes, we can have assurance of this.



In Christ,



James

Post Reply



View Profile
History
Scripture List: Unconditional Election
Posted : 3 Feb, 2011 01:09 PM

James if one was to go by the evidence if you were saved knowing what you post, there is no evidence of salvation, or any fruit there of, all that is there is Calvinism.



I did not say that to be argumentative, but to answer your question.

Post Reply



View Profile
History
Scripture List: Unconditional Election
Posted : 3 Feb, 2011 02:28 PM

Ima back with a Monkey Wrench ta toss into the Spokes of Folks...

" Election " as in the Bible the WORD is refering to the JEWS...They are the Elected...The Chosen People of GOD...an that is UNCONDITIOAL...We GENTILES are the BELOVED of GOD...NOT the Elect...xo

Post Reply



View Profile
History
Scripture List: Unconditional Election
Posted : 4 Feb, 2011 03:33 PM

PJ, in further response to your statement, I have this to say;

I was not there when Saul/ Paul had his encounter with Jesus.

It is a fact some people may be pushed very hard to serve God.Saul/ Paul needed a wake up call. I do not know if paul was given a choice. if he had refused the call what would have happened?????????

Who would have wrote so much?

Paul was a religious man.

Who are we to say that some men may not have a choice?

Well, I do not believe Paul wanted to go to hell.

James, my going back to school has helped me ask questions Like my teachers do. I find this to be challenging. Instead of saying that I am right I ask to get a response from somebody to see what they are thinking. Instead of argueing I find this to be more educational. I have changed some of my thinking.

I did notice we have a few different views on things.

I may be wrong so I do ask.

Post Reply

klmartin62

View Profile
History
Scripture List: Unconditional Election
Posted : 4 Feb, 2011 05:11 PM

Dennis,



Sorry, I didn't notice your questions until now. I think James represented it well. I would add that we believe you will not seek God without His first calling you.



Here is part of a letter I am writing, I think it explains it well.

Let me know if it does not.

First, salvation is all of God and none of me. I did not choose God, He chose me. (John 15:16) In our natural state, we have no use for God. We don't understand Him, nor do we want to understand. (1Cor.2:9-14, Romans 3:9-19) It is only after God changes our heart and sends His Spirit that we start to seek Him. (Eze. 36:26) We are born in sin (Psalms 51) and have no hope for salvation because we don't want it. God calls us (Romans 9) and gives us the ability to see the things of God. We eventually reach a point where we do have to choose, but it is not really a choice. Who would ever choose their old life compared to the one God is offering? No one I know! (Heb. 6:4, 5)



Now, since we know that there is nothing we can do on our own to change how God sees us, we have to admit that it is only our acceptance of Christ that can save us. That leads us to, can we ever do anything that would anger Him so badly that we could lose our salvation? The short answer is, no, you cannot. I know that sounds odd, but you have to remember, salvation is a free gift because of what Jesus did, not because of what we did. So can you do something so bad that God would turn His back on Jesus? Of course not! Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father. His resurrection and ascension guarantees your spot. He did all the work, we just ride in on His coattails.



There is a beautiful example of this in Eze. 16. It is a Messianic Prophesy, but it shows how our relationship with God works, and the end shows that He does not take our salvation, though we will pay a price for disobedience.



Leon

Post Reply



View Profile
History
Scripture List: Unconditional Election
Posted : 4 Feb, 2011 05:15 PM

Presby,



I just wanted to say thank you for your help and support.



You sound like you attend a great church, and have a real good understanding of the Bible. That is something that is rare these days. Anyways, thanks again!



In Christ,



James

Post Reply

Page : 1 2 3 4 5