1st Jn1:Ps 119:130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.
5 � This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Ps 119:130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.
Some many times as you will see on these post, as those endeavor to proclaim their doctrines of men, you can easily detect the error, for it does not agree with the entirety of scripture.
Such as Total depravity
Total inability
Irresistible Grace
For instance Romans Ch 9:14 � What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
In finding the will of God on any matter we have to Consider context always.
If you desire to Find the will of God to mankind on the topic of mercy all you have to do is get a concordance, and find scriptures that will include all of mankind, concerning the will of God concerning the mercy of God.
Walk in the light of the word of God, not the word of man
If you have been Reading most of the posts on this thread, and the other threads in this section of the group for the past week, you SHOULD be CONVINCED that CALVINISTS know the Bible MUCH better than Non-Calvinists, and you SHOULD ASK YOURSELF WHY?
Excellent Job Leon, and Presby!
Now, all the rest of you go to www.monergism.com and start reading at the beginning!!!
Yes, Christ was crucified before the foundation of the world. Yet your post suggests God changes plans when the first one doesn't work, ie : Moses and the law. The truth is the tree, the law and the cross, none of them are plan "B" or "C" etc... when a previous plan "failed". A observant Spiritual man can see God finished working on day six, rested on day 7 and went back to work on day eight.
I did not mean to give the impression that God's plan had failed, I should have explained that Moses' failure was also a part of God's plan.
Moses represents the Law, so his failure was a Prophesy of the Law leading us to Christ. As the law shows us our need for Jesus, so did Moses' failure show our need for Him. The whole story of Moses is a Prophesy of Christ. Moses (the law) led the chosen ones to the promised land, but could not take them into it. Only Joshua (Hebrew Yeshua, or English Jesus) could do that.
We are to judge the spirits, to judge a tree by it's fruit. You my dear brother walk in the foot steps of your fathers and bear the same fruit. Since Calvinism's inception it has brought strife and division to the Body of Christ through the fruit of intellectualism and spiritual pride resulting in persecutions and even death of fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.
Your posts indicate the same spirit, the same fruit, you do your forefathers proud, however I believe Calvin and Jesus are rather disappointed.
James Your last statement is so far from the truth, no one cam be illuminated by the doctrines of man.
By the way doctrines do not save anyone.
The word requires to witnesses for truth to be established:
2Co 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.
1. Jn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the
2nd Cor 5:13 For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause.
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
It is the word of God that teaches us to walk in the light of God's word, and it also teaches us to desire to do so, and it also teaches us that some men would rather walk in darkness.
Jn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
1st Jn14 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
5 � This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 � If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
It is man's responsibility to find out what the word of God teaches and to walk in that light.
It is the word of God that teaches man that if they reject the light they choose darkness, it is very simple, remember it is written to Christians also.
It is a choice to walk with the lord, and we do that by walking in the light of God's word
Really Chevy? Did you really just question the salvation of God's children? I expect that from PJ, he does it all the time, but I never would have thought that of you.
Statements like that are of little to no help as the only conclusive implication you can get from that is that you can somehow know Jesus by some means but the Bible. Just to be sure of this, you cannot know God through any other means but Scripture.
I'll be honest, I don't know where people get that Christianity is about a relationship and not a religion. I mean really, are you kidding me? A lot of people during Jesus' earthly ministry had a "personal" relationship with Jesus (including Satan). The only personal relationship that counts for anything is to be Jesus' slave (Jn. 12:26, 15:20). To be a slave means that you have no personal rights or freedoms as a slave's existence is defined by service to another. Thus when a Calvinism teaches that a true Christian cannot lose their salvation, they are really the only ones who know God correctly, since "for me to live is Christ and to die is gain." :glow:
There has been no mean spiritedness in the posts that I have been reading of Calvinists on this website. Yes, they've attested that many things that Bible think to be true of the Bible is wrong, but that is not being divisive. When the Bible talks about division, it is not referring to those who are fighting for the purity of the gospel but of people who try to add works unto salvation - those who pervert the gospel. It is not biblical unity to be united under false doctrines.
Granted, sometimes in this "fight for the truth," people can get overbearing upon a brother or sister in Christ. However, keep in mind that things sometimes sound harsher in writing. And I would speak on behalf of all the Calvinists on here, where if there is any point where we have said something degrading or hurtful, that you would please forgive us, as you know, we attest to be nothing more than sinners so we are not perfect =)
Hmmmmm, so if doctrines don't save anyone, then I'm curios...How does one get saved? Do you not need to first have a doctrine of salvation? Why would we need a gospel message then? All the gospel message is is doctrine...
