Thread: Attention Sabbath Keepers! & New Covenant Keepers!
Admin
Attention Sabbath Keepers! & New Covenant Keepers!
Posted : 3 Dec, 2010 05:41 PM
I would like to hear from real live Sabbath keepers and from those who believe the Sabbath has been fulfilled in Jesus. From those who believe the day to worship has been changed to Sunday or everyday is alike under the New Covenant or should the Sabbath still be kept.
I also would like to hear from anyone who made the switch to Sabbath keeping : What if any benefit did you notice in your life?
I do not want to start a arguement, but a passionate discussion among brothers and sisters would be helpful as I have mixed feeling on the subject.
Attention Sabbath Keepers! & New Covenant Keepers!
Posted : 5 Dec, 2010 06:16 PM
Uh...pretty sure it means the same thing, but I'm missing something, right?
These don't mean the same thing though...not even close:
"For if Joshua had given them rest God would not have spoken later about another day"
"For if Jesus had given them rest then would he not afterward have spoken of another day"
They mean the exact opposite of each other...if they're even still about the same thing. It may have nothing to do with the discussion. It's beside the point anyway.
Attention Sabbath Keepers! & New Covenant Keepers!
Posted : 5 Dec, 2010 08:30 PM
Mark, thanks for your patience and effort in explaining sabbath keeping. This post is about ready to drop off the front page. I did find a good website for this: sabbathtruth.com. thanks again and take care of that good looking red head of yours!
Attention Sabbath Keepers! & New Covenant Keepers!
Posted : 5 Dec, 2010 09:07 PM
Gary and Thunder
Only a heathen would believe Jesus came to change the Sabbath Day or that the Bible says Sunday is the day the Bible states as the Sabbath. If you don't understand a post, send me a private message and resolve it that way, are we as Christians suppose to boast? If the disciples talked to Jesus out of context would he talked to them in the streets about what was said or discuss it one on one. Are we not supposed to share the gospel one on one?
Maybe if both of you had focused on the scripture I posted below you could have understood the big picture better.
Jesus tells us that he and the Father works on Sabbath.
John 5:16 - 18 (NIV) 16So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jews persecuted him. 17Jesus said to them, �My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.� 18For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
What I was trying to say was the Jews were instructed by the priests concerning the laws on which day the Sabbath should be which is on Saturdays. As for Christians, I'm was trying to make the same example that since Jesus was resurrected on a Sunday or Nisan 17 on the Hebrew calendar, that the early church could have made Sunday the day of Sabbath for Christians.
I understand your concern that the churches have changed the day for celebrating the Sabbath, my beliefs are, the Sabbath observance was for the Jews and the Jews only, it began in Ex. 16:1, 23-29:and ended with Jesus death and resurrection; Col. 2:13-16:
Exodus 16:1
Manna and Quail
1 The whole Israelite community set out from Elim and came to the Desert of Sin, which is between Elim and Sinai, on the fifteenth day of the second month after they had come out of Egypt.
Exodus 16:23-29
Colossians 2:13-16
13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you[a] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.[b]
Freedom From Human Rules
16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
Although Christ was resurrected on the first day of the week (now called Sunday), the Bible contains no instruction to set aside that day of the week as sacred, however, I believe in observing the Sabbath any day of the week. Although Christians are not obliged to observe a weekly day of rest, they are nevertheless invited to observe rest of another kind. Paul explains this to his fellow Jewish Christians, saying: �So there remains a sabbath resting for the people of God. . . . Let us therefore do our utmost to enter into that rest.� (Hebrews 4:4-11)
4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: �On the seventh day God rested from all his work.�[a] 5 And again in the passage above he says, �They shall never enter my rest.� 6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it �Today.� This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted: �Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts.�[b] 8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for those who enter God�s rest also rest from their own work, just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience. Footnotes: Hebrews 4:4 Gen. 2:2, Hebrews 4:7 Psalm 95:7,8
If a man works Tuesday through Sunday, would not his day of rest, the Sabbath be Monday?
But it is God's day. It is a day when you have all the time in the world. You have time for reading the Bible, time for prayer, time for fellowship, time for your children, time for thought, time for yourself, and, above all, time for God.
The keeping of the Sabbath is very much a matter of intent. God revealed through Isaiah the right attitude toward the Sabbath:
"If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honorable; and shalt honour Him, not doing thine own ways, not finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will cause thee to ride upon high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it" (Isaiah 58:13,14).
The purpose of the Sabbath is to get man to pause-to step out of the rat race for a moment and to find a little time for God, for family, for friends, for brothers. It is not a time to sit in the dark because you don't want to turn on a light on the Sabbath. It is not a day to be cold because you don't want to light a fire in the fireplace. It is not a day to be alone because you won't go to a restaurant with brethren for fellowship.
Don't you feel sorry for those poor souls who have no Sabbath?
1. The old covenant is obsolete (Hebrews 8:13).
13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
2. The new covenant has been established (Hebrews 8:6)
6But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
The difference is Jesus. Jeremiah 31 states I will put the law in your mind and heart.
The ancient Jews did keep Saturday as their Sabbath as this was a requirement for Jews living under the old law covenant, this law is no longer in operation (my belief)
The sabbatical system prescribed in the Mosaic Law included a weekly Sabbath day, a number of additional specified days throughout each year, the seventh year, and the fiftieth year. The weekly Sabbath of the Jews, the seventh day of their calendar week, was from sunset on Friday until sunset on Saturday.
Rom. 10:4: �CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW, so that everyone exercising faith may have righteousness.� (Sabbath keeping was a part of that Law.) God used Christ to bring that Law to its end. Our having a righteous standing with God depends on faith in Christ, not on keeping a weekly Sabbath.) (Also Galatians 4:9-11; Ephesians 2:13-16)
Ephesians 2:13-16
13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.
After Jesus' death, his apostles at no time commanded Sabbath observance. The Sabbath was not included as a Christian requirement at Acts 15:28, 29, or later.
Acts 15:28-29
28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell
Apostate Christians however in later centuries adopted the Sabbath observance again, and as far as I know changed it to Sunday after Constantine.
What the Bible says at Galatians 4:8-11 and Colossians 2:16, 17 shows that Christians are not under God's law given to the Israelites, with its requirement to keep the weekly Sabbath and to observe other special days in the year. That keeping a weekly Sabbath is not a Christian requirement can also be seen from Romans 14:5
Rom. 7:6, 7: �Now we have been discharged from the Law"
These Jews, before becoming Christians, had previously followed the Mosaic Law as scrupulously as they could. Now Paul was no longer encouraging them to seek salvation through works but instead to �rest� from their dead works. Henceforth, they were to have faith in Jesus' sacrifice, which was the only means by which mankind could be righteous in God's eyes.
Galatians 4:8-11
Paul�s Concern for the Galatians
8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. 9 But now that you know God�or rather are known by God�how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces[a]? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.
Colossians 2:16-17
Freedom From Human Rules
16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
Romans 14:5
5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.
Attention Sabbath Keepers! & New Covenant Keepers!
Posted : 6 Dec, 2010 11:22 AM
Sabbathtruth.com? Amazing Facts? Can't say I can argue with your choice, lol...that's an adventist website/institution. Just be careful you don't get roped in to a cult!
Attention Sabbath Keepers! & New Covenant Keepers!
Posted : 6 Dec, 2010 04:56 PM
Don't, ... � you remind me of political candidates that make statements that are hypocritical. They always show blame about others out of context. We are here in Truth, at least we are suppose to be. Scripture interprets Scripture! I'm a believer, not from man. If I interpret the scripture I posted to mean something different than your beliefs, rebuke and reproof, not in slander and ignorance!
1. Not all passages of Scripture are equally clear.
2. The clearer passages should interpret the less clear passages.
New Testament interprets Old Testament
Epistles interpret Gospels
Systematic passages interpret incidental and narrative Universal passages interpret more "local" passages
Attention Sabbath Keepers! & New Covenant Keepers!
Posted : 6 Dec, 2010 08:47 PM
Uh...not sure why you're directing this at me. I don't remember slandering anyone, the harshest thing I said was "I don't understand how someone can believe that". I suppose you could chalk that part up to ignorance...but I'm missing your point, care to elaborate a bit?
Attention Sabbath Keepers! & New Covenant Keepers!
Posted : 7 Dec, 2010 11:43 AM
ncwestie, I agree with you that we do not observe the Sabbath or any other so-called holy day. I have never encouraged anyone to go against God's word. I'm glad you have an understanding.
The Lord is our Sabbath every day of the week for the rest of our lives for we are under grace not under the law. The law of faith fulfills the law.
Romans 3:27 �Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Romans 3:28 �Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Galatians 4:9 �But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
10 �Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
11 �I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
Colossians 2:14 �Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 �And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 �Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Colossians 2:20 �Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 �(Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 �Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 �Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
The above scriptures are some of the ones that tell me I'm under grace and not under the law for the law condemns us not justify us.
Those who advocate for law with grace have not entered into Christ's grace and it is because of unbelief.
Proof: Hebrews 4:5 �And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 �Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Thank you ncwestie, for thinking of me in your reply.
Attention Sabbath Keepers! & New Covenant Keepers!
Posted : 7 Dec, 2010 11:47 AM
Thunderofgod, You have surprised me and have made an assumption based on Romans 2:28-29 and then base your conclusion that all believers are true Jews because they have had their hearts circumcised.
Like all Babies in Christ or as the unsaved have a bad habit of doing: you have taken two scriptures and have ignored the rest of God's word on the subject of believers nationality. One way we can know we have rightly divided God's word is when all scripture is in complete agreement with all of God's word. This is one asset that makes the word of God come alive as no other written word has this capacity.
With two scriptures, Rom. 2:28-29, you have attached a nationality to true believers. You have not taken into account Galatians 3:28, that states, all that are baptized into Christ is neither Jew or Greek, {Greek meaning the same as Gentile}and not once does any of God's word use the term a true Jew.
Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Is comparing a believing Gentile to a believing Jew before the whole Law was set aside, the Law separated Jews from Gentiles and that is why a Gentile who converted to Judaism became a proselyte. That Law along with all of them were nailed to Christ cross, thereby making it possible for gentiles to become a believer without being a proselyte.
Proof: Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
In verse 13, those who were afar off is referring to the Gentile and the middle of wall of partition is referring to the Law, the whole law, not just sacrificial laws as you have stated. It would not be possible for Gentiles to draw close to Christ with a circumcision of the heart made without hands if any of the law was in effect because the law demanded separation between Jews and Gentiles for the Jews under the law and were God's people. The Gentile were of God not until they converted to Judaism. Christ was able to set aside the Law because He is the one who came and fulfilled all righteousness. Just as He was able to heal on the Sabbath without breaking the Law He was also capable of setting it aside when His blood washed the sins of the world. Although the Law was set aside it will be taken up again after the Church is gone and that will happen when the Holy Spirit is gone with it.
God tells us to compare scripture with scripture and allow His Holy Spirit to teach us the truth of God and not follow after false doctrines of men who teach not the wisdom of God but that of men.
Proof: 1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
No Thunder, I was not looking for the verses in Hebrews 9:11-15. Since you have brought them up I will make a brief comment on them though.
Hebrews 9:11 is Paul explaining to Jewish believers {This by the way is what the book of Hebrews is about} about Christ now being the their high priest instead of when they had a man as their priest in a physical temple. Now they have their priest in Christ the same as the Gentiles do and that a perfect tent of worship is in reference to the body of Christ. The rest of the verses in Hebrews 9:12-15 is Paul comparing the physical ordinances under Mosaic Law compared to now, they are to worship God through an eternal promise made through atonement through the blood of Christ instead of lifeless works done by the law.
Proof: Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
Jews and Gentiles are now the same in Christ a new creation that has no nationality.
Proof: 2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
Let's go back to Romans 3:1 the verses Romans 2:28-29 you used to justify a true Jew.
Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
According to Romans 3:1 there is no profit in being a Jew or true Jew as you have coined them? So near as I can tell from all the above I have given your assertion that all believers are true Jews is not found in God's word.
