@ Everoyone that has given their OPINION about this topic:
Am I glad that i will not have to stand before anyone on this site at the last day..
I have read a lot of the answers about this topic,Most are in eternal judgement about something only YHWH has the understanding to judge rightly..And for eternity..
The underlying issue is not sin,but rather unbelief.
For all sin is unbelief..
WHat is the answer for unbelief...
REPENT,believe the Gospel.
Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Biblical repentance is not turning away from sin,but rather turning from unbelief to believing the Gospel.
We make judgements about people based on what we see a person does, this is judging according to the outward appearance..
YHWH,sees the root of the problem,THE HEART of the person..
WHen He changes the persons heart, then the outward appearances we were judging these will have been dealt with as well.
1Sam 16:6 And it came to pass, when they were come, that he looked on Eliab, and said, Surely the LORD'S anointed is before him.
1Sam 16:7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.
Leave the eternal judgements up to YHWH,we should keep to proclaiming the Gospel...
In my first post I wrote that Jesus said the father decides who goes to heaven and who does not.
i aslo explained what suicide is- A delibrate act of ending your life because you no longer want to live.
if some one gives their life to save a friend that is not suicde.
sacrificing yourself is not suicide if you do not do it to spite God. Does the police officer who went into the towers on 9/11 commit suicede.they knew they were not going to come back.It was their job to save people at their own lives.
I have read a few confused ideas of what suicided is here.
Row, I think you are reading more into certain words than shouldn't be, and you're not spiritually putting things into order for understanding...
I John chapter 1, says this: If we say that we have no SIN, we deceive oursleves, and the truth is not in us.
If we CONFESS our SINS, God is faithful and just to forgive us of ALL(not some), but forgive ALL our SINS, and cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not SINNED (past, present, and future) we make God a lair, and His Word is not in us.
Remeber the sinner who prayed only said," Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner". Jesus said this man's was justified and forgiven of his SINS. No one can repent of ALL their sins, because we don't know the length or dept of our sins, only those SINS we are immediately connected with.
This is also the reason why Jesus teaches us that we should PRAY always, Pray without ceasing. Pray everywhere. Pray in season (meaning when it feels good, through the good times,when you're nto going thorugh or in troubles, and in good health) Pray out of season, when things are going bad. Pray when you're sick and on your death bed of afflections,. Pray when you're depression and its dark. Pray when you've lost your family or best friends. Pray will you need finanses, etc. PRAY NAD REPENT OF YOUR SINS!ALWAYS! EVERYWHERE wispher a prayer within yourself to God.
Jesus teaches us that we should always include in our prayers, Forgive us of our DEBTS(SINS) AS WE FORGIVE OUR debtors (those who have SINNED) against us. When we ask God to FORGIVE us of our SINS, this covers ALL OUR SINS IN PRAYER. We are also taught to ask in prayer for God to DELIVER US FROM ALL (NOT SOME) BUT FROM ALL EVIL... SUICIDE IS an evI deed.. and evil does not exist in heaven. Prayer changes people, places and things. Therefore, when a person is so burden down, that person should consider their SINS, and there would not be any suicide. If you look over the records of everyone who has commited suicide, you will find that the person had many sins against others in their life, and aginst God, and refused to repent of them. As I said depression is onlt anger toward one's own self. Clinicla depression is not found in the Bible, its called SIN. CLINICAL DRESSION IS A MAN COINED PHRASE TO EXCUSE A PERSON FOR NOT TAKEN RESPONSIBLITY FOR HIS/HER BEHAVIOR, AND NOT REPENTING OF THEIR SINS. The demonic in the Bible was also CLINICALLY DEPRESSED, and had many time tried to kill himself, UNTIL HE SAW Jesus and was made whole, healed and delivered.
DEPRESSIONis INNER ANGER, AND IS A SIGN OF UNREPENTANT SINS that is held in, and embeds its self into a person mind, soul and spirit. And God is trying to get the person's attention and bring him/her to come to their sense unto repentance.
Elijah wanted to die because he was depressed, and hid himself in a cave asking God to kill him. David was depressed, Peter was depressed, and Paul tells us he too was so depressed and sought God to kill him. All the people in the BIble when you read, you will find they were very depressed unto death and wanted God to kill them. Because they were angry, had lost control of the situation, and circumstances stole what they thought was their power. But you will also find that they all PRAYED and God answered and delivered them out of their darkness AFTER they had REPENTED. Judas killed himself becasue of his PRIDE and refusal to repent of his sin. Whereas, we find the Bible telling us that on the other hand, Peter wept bitterly and repented of his sins, and lived.
Paul write to us in Philippians chapter 4, Be careful (don't worry, don't takes things for granted, don't think that you can make your own way our without God's help) be careful for nothing, but in EVERYTHING ( sickness, poverty, pain, suffering, hardtimes, whatever), in everything BY (through) PRAYER AND SUPPLICATIONS, with thanksgiving (thanking God for hearing, for deliverance, for healing, for helping you to overcome, etc.), let your PRAYER REQUESTS be made known to God. And the PEACE OF GOD, which SURPASSES ALL (human) UNDERSTANDING, will KEEP YOUR HEARTS AND MINDS through Christ Jesus.
If you need deliverance PRAY, if you need healing PRAY, if you need helpl with fnancial matters God says to PRAY in ALL THINGS, JUST PRAY! BECAUSE THE PRAYER OF A RIGHTEOUS (SINCERE PERSON) AVAILS MUCH!. People who kill themselves aren't praying for god to help them overcome, becasue their focus is on their own feeling of shmae, and disgrace, or apin or suffering, to reach out to God or to the other person in repentance seeking forgiveness.
Psalm 91, says it like this, and this is God answering the prayer, God say this: Becasue he/she has set his/her love upon Me, therefore I WILL deliver him/her. I WILL SET HIM/HER ON HIGH, BECAUSE HE/SHE HAS CALLED UPON MY NAME. HE/SHE WHO CALL UPON ME AND i WILL ANSWER HIM/HER, iIWILL BE WITH HIM/HER iIN TROUBLE, I will deliver him/her and honor him/her WITH LONG LIFE WILL I SATISY HIM/HER, AND SHOW HIM/HER my salvation.
Failure to be humble and pray before God because of PRIDE and you kill yourselve instead, this is SIN. And suidie is a perfect example of Pride and rejecting humility before God in prayer. Psalm 9, sayGod is a refuge in time of troubles and when there is trust (faith ) in Him He promises to deliver us out of all our trubles and will not forsake us.
Proverbs chapter 24 says this, If you faint in the day of adversity, your strength(faith, endurance is SMALL(weak). If you FORBEAR to deliver those who are drawn unto death and those who are ready to die/be slain or killed. If you say, Look, we did not know about it. Does not God who searches the heart consider this? And God who keeps your soul, does not He know it? And will not HE RENDER TO EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS/HER WORKS? suicide is a work of pride and the devil uses it for his purposes.
As for propserity gospel, Throughout the Bible we find where people prayed and God answered and made a way for escapre, people prayed and there was healing, people prayed and many were delivered from sins, enemies, and financial problems. exhorting another to put their faith into action is not prosperity its called atirring up the gifts of faith that has given to everyone, through the gift of exhortation.
Preaching and teaching faith and how it works, and how faith moves the hands of God into action when we PRAY, and when we ASK, SEEK, and KNOCK isn't hersey, it is the truth of the word of God.
What you're speaking and calling prosperity teaching or preaching is not by sincre faith, but found in the motives behind USING God's word and faith, but the method is through the Bible. If you understand Hebrews chapter 11, and Romans chapter 4... and no matter how a person uses thier faith for good or eveil, God's word is His word. Faith works for the sanits and the sinners according to scipture, Gos rains on the siants and the sinner who does not believe in God, but uses the principles of faith, reaping and sowing. God is still a faithful God, and responds to His word with it is put into action. As Paul says, it does matter how you use God's word whether for personal gain or whatever, if you're preaching Jesus or faith you can't say nothing wrong about the name of Jesus or faith that change who He is, or the motions of faith...
God teaches us to ask, seek and knock, He does not tells us what to ask for, what to seek, or how long to keep kocking in prayer. If you read the gospels you will find that many came and were healed because they asked, sought, and kept on kocking until they got an answer. Having faith is prosperity as it is written: I wish above ALL things that you be in good health, that YOU PROSPER, and the your souls prosper.
You have not because you ASK not, and when you do ask, your motives are wrong and you ask for things that you really don't need.
Again, ask, and it shall be given. Seek, and you shall find. Knock, and the door will be open unto you. And this IS the confidence that we have in God, if we ASK ANYTHING ACCORDING TO HIS WILL, HE HEARS US. And if we KNOW that God hears (answers prayer), WHATSOEVER THINGS WE ASK, we know that we have the PETITIONS (PRAYER REQUESTS) we DESIRE of HIM. You can find this in (1 John chapter5)
So is that prosperity teaching or putting FAITH INto ACTION through PRAYER.
Again, there is NO PROBLEM TOO HARD, NO DEPRESSION SO DEEP THAT GOD CAN'T SOLVE, WHEN WE PRAY!
Sorry, REVELATION chpater 21, SAY murderers WILL NOT inheirt the kingdom of God... what part of this don't people understand?! we cannot fit the word to suit our personal beliefs and desires to see those we love who commit sin in heaven.
There is no excuse or reason for anyine to commit suicide! And if God excuses a person for killing him/herself and they have not repented , and he/she still goes heaven unrepented... then I spec we'll also see Judas in heaven as well...
ET, I expect there will be a lot of people in Heaven that none of us expect to see there, and there will be a lot of people that we won't see that we thought we would. Only God knows the heart.
BC, you're so right, good point... and we must agree that those we don't expect to be in heaven are those who will humbled themselves before God in prayer and repented of their sins and TURN away from their sins.
And those who will not be in heaven that we expect to see there, are those who thought their 40 yrs in the church, and religion and christians works had them covered, and these are they who refused in rebellion to repent of their sins.
Moreover, You and I can both agree that Paul in his writings from Romans to Philemon teaches that only through repentance will anyone enter the kingodm of God. And in Revelation chapter 21, which is the final word, God tells us that those who PRACTICE SIN, WILL NOT ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
You said the key words, "God knows our heart" this is why repentance of our sins every day is so very important...God knows our hearts to be wicked and evil, and full of pride. For even Jesus tells us that whatsoever speaks or does, comes from within the hearts of man, not from the outside of a eprson. Its what comes from the inside that defile a person. Sin comes from the inside of our hearts, and when we have not repented of those things committed against God and others, there are consequences if a person dies without repenting. jesus goes on to tells us that that the works of our hearts is adultry, pride, rebellion, fornication, lusts, murder, and the likes.
The works of our flesh (hearts) when we're not under the total control of the Holy Spirit of God in our spirit, this is sin that will have no place in God's kingdom.
I'm sure God would be merciful if there was a sickness or some extenuating circumstances involved that influenced a converted person's control over themselves, but you did say "Christians go to heaven if they commit suicide". Ya' just have to be more specific. Most of the time there is no excuse for killing yourself. It's pretty bad, and I have a hard time believing that anyone that truly loves God and their fellow man would commit suicide unless they were "not themselves". And I really don't think there is some kind of "salvation insurance" that saves us even if we were bad right before we die. We're supposed to endure to the end.
Eze. 33:12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
13When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
14Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
15If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
16None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.
17Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal.
18When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.
19But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.
20Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. O ye house of Israel, I will judge you every one after his ways.
Mark, what have I always tried to teach you?... I send you to schooling, youbeat up the teachers. I buy you books you eat the covers. I buy you pencils, you make the board with them...what in the misssst am I gonna do with you?:ROFL:
No one has a clue as to whom you are addressing in your post. Why can't you be like others and at least state the person's name to whom you're speaking so the eprson and others reading will know ...geeezzzz:excited:
Coz, I have never sadi that if a christians commits suicide they will go to heaven. All saints and sinners alike who murder hemsleves will go to hell.
Let's pray no one kills his or herself, and will pray when things get too hard to bear.. PRAISE GOD!
Hey this is a good topic, can someone copy and paste it back to start on page one? If I knew how to copy and paste to I would....thanks!
I'm sorry about that Siylli. I realized after I posted that it was insensitive. I was a bit upset at the moment, given the fact that many people on this forum seem to believe that both of those men are now in hell (in spite of their long and fruitful Christian lives), and I believe otherwise.
The reason I used that phrase is because one of the widows actually refers to her husband's death that way. It's hard to explain without you knowing this woman, but she's not being at all insensitive to her husband's death, or to anyone else whose relative/friend commits suicide in the same way. I didn't think before repeating her words.
Well...just for the record, I do not believe every suicide goes to hell. You're right, pianogal. Only God knows the heart, and only God knows where people are going when they die. And my previous post was directed at bcpianogal and MrRow.
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"given the fact that many people on this forum seem to believe that both of those men are now in hell (in spite of their long and fruitful Christian lives), and I believe otherwise."
"When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby."
If someone knowingly and willfully chooses to sin against God and commit suicide, I do not think it's just "overlooked" because they were good the rest of the time. They chose to turn from God's path and take matters into their own hands. I do believe that God will be merciful to them, because He judges people by their "works". So at the end, their punishment may be very "light" because they did serve God for awhile. You and I probably have vastly different views of hell though, maybe that's why it seems so horrible for me to say that they will not be in heaven. I believe that God judges the sinners at the end of the world, and then fire comes down from heaven and consumes them into ashes. Then it's over. I'm pretty sure you're thinking that they will suffer in hell for eternity for that one unrepentant sin that they committed right before they died, and you're right....that would be horrible. The bible is pretty clear about what happens when we willingly sin though. Salvation isn't a "points" race, where you can accumulate a bunch of brownie points and then willfully sin a little bit and still make it to heaven. I do believe there are exceptions like "mental illness", and I do believe that God knows their hearts and will judge them accordingly...but if I live a great holy life and then knowingly commit suicide, I don't believe that I will be in heaven. If I believed that was true I would have done it a long time ago. I think I've been pretty good up to now:angel::rolleyes:.
