Biblically:Is a woman qualified to being an Elder-Pastor-Bishop-Overseer..
Posted : 23 Jul, 2010 07:01 PM
We've discussed this a thousand times on this site. Nevetheless, my answers remain the same.
According to Ephesians chapter 5, marriage is symbolic of the church. Therefore, My question: Is a woman qualified to be head of a household, wherein a MAN whom God placed in charged of the household, has left her with three or five children?
After all God place MAN as head of the household, just as He place man head of the church. This would go to say that the first household and church was the garden. So what happened?
It appears MOST MEN ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO BEING ELDERS,PASTORS, BISHOPS, OR OVERSEERS od the church OR the household, based on what God has to say the qualifications are to be for a man who is married to his wife and to God..
So what are the qualifications for a woman to being head of a household? Shouldn't they be the same as God has so defined for a man to be head of the household and church? I
would think so, since GOD said, as a pastor or elder, or deacon, or Bishop, or overseerer of the CHURCH or a household let the MAN be the husband of ONE WIFE, whether its a leader of the church OR in a marriage as head of a household.
Maybe someone brave can answer these question as they relate to the topic. Then you will have your answer to the question: Is a woman qualified to being an a pastor of a church. Is a man qualified to being an elder, pastor, bishop, overseerer, deacon if he has more than one wife?
A woman can't be the husband of ONE WIFE, so what the problem with the man is SUPPOSE to be by COMMAND the HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE? So if this qualification, disqualifies a woman, and this is all you've got to prove your point in your opinion, then I would think the man who has more than ONE WIFE is also disqualified from being a pastor, elder, deacon, bishop, Ssince he is NOT the HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE, based on what GOD has said, and not your opinions...don't you think?...
The donkey wasn't qualified to speak either, but he did according to what God had so purposed, and not based on what man thought or man's opinion. After all Gid is sovergien and doesn't need man's opinions or thoughts to allow things to happen to fulfill His divine purposes or plan. The rock don't speak either, but God said if the believers don't be His witneses as they should, they ROCKS are going to cry out!
Some women are more qualified than most men to care for the church and God's people.
Funny, everything concerning Jesus' birth, death, and resurrection was carried out by a WOMAN who was on her job, and she was sent by GOD, not man, with the gospel word to the men. Including the woman at the well who carried the gospel word to the people, who went and told the MEN and the city to do what?... COME SEE A MAN!!!:applause::yay::glow:
Biblically:Is a woman qualified to being an Elder-Pastor-Bishop-Overseer..
Posted : 23 Jul, 2010 08:55 PM
"Some women are more qualified than most men"
This sounds like a lot of "supposing". At least for the stand-point of male leadership there is scriptural support. There are many verses that say "men are the leaders". Where are the verses that say a woman gets to take over if she's "more qualified"? And how can she be more qualified than a man if one of the qualifications is that the leader of the church should be a man? That would be like a person from the tribe of Benjamin becoming a priest, right? Not saying women can't be used by God. I'm not saying women aren't allowed to preach or give a sermon. I'm not even saying that women can't teach men. I'm just saying that the head of the Church is supposed to be a man. There is so much symbolism tied into it that it would be impossible for a woman to fit in that position. If a man dies and/or leaves a woman with 3 kids then it is no longer a marriage. The woman is free to remarry, free to stay a widow/single....but she doesn't magically become a man/father/figure of Christ. She is the head, and she does make the executive decisions, but it doesn't turn her into a husband...is that making any sense? So a church may be full of women and no men, and a woman may be the "leader"...but that doesn't make her a "elder". Anyway...I'm going to shut up and go to bed...I'm starting to confuse myself...
Biblically:Is a woman qualified to being an Elder-Pastor-Bishop-Overseer..
Posted : 23 Jul, 2010 09:08 PM
Mark you're speaking out of the loop ... There are many women more qualified to do many things than men, including being head of a household, and spiritual leaders and scriptures to back it up.
God never placed a women over the household, and there are scriptures to back that up, but many women are heads of their household, becasue the man had left for another woman or whatever his excuse may be, and God forbids this and there are scriptures to back this up as well.
I'm not speaking about if the man dies, I'm speaking about men who are pastors, elders, deacons, bishops who DIVORCE their wives and leave them and are pastors in the church.
There are scriptures that back up this as well,
God never placed a woman over the household, but there are many women who are and are doing very well since the man left, thank you very much, and many women have not remarried, but many of the men who have left their wives have remarried, and are pastors, elders, deacons, and bishops.
Do you know who was the first shephardress in the Bible? And she did a mighty fine job, until her man came along.
Stay in the loop, and stay spiritually focus.:peace:
Biblically:Is a woman qualified to being an Elder-Pastor-Bishop-Overseer..
Posted : 24 Jul, 2010 04:46 PM
I think you're right. If a elder goes through a divorce and it's his fault, then he should step out of his leadership position...even if it's not his fault he should step out for awhile. But a woman is not a man, and therefore not qualified for the executive spiritual leadership positions. I believe women can speak/preach/teach from the bible, and witness to the world, but the spiritual leadership is to men as a symbol of Christ. A man with more than one wife would be a symbol for Christ/the head with several churches/bodies, and that's not right. There is only one true church of God(disclaimer: made up of true believers from every denomination). A woman in the spiritual leader position would be a symbol of the church/body ruling over Christ/ the head, and that's not good either. God made men the spiritual "head", and women the spiritual "body", as a spiritual symbol of Christ and the church.
1 Cor. 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God....7For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image(symbol) and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. 8For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. 9Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. 10For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels. 11Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. 12For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.
Anyway...that's the way God created us, as a symbol. "In His image". We're made in His image individually, we're made closer to His image in the union between a man and a woman, and perfected in the example of the church and Christ.
Biblically:Is a woman qualified to being an Elder-Pastor-Bishop-Overseer..
Posted : 24 Jul, 2010 09:57 PM
Mark, I have concluded, I'm going to do one of two things with you, and you can have frre choice in this decision making process... I'ma either goin to adopt you as my son, so I can beat you down everytime you get out of line... OR marry you, so that you can have the last word.:ROFL::excited:
I've concluded, you have free choice to decide.:toomuch::toomuch:
Biblically:Is a woman qualified to being an Elder-Pastor-Bishop-Overseer..
Posted : 26 Jul, 2010 02:15 PM
Mark, U too funneee.. so since you had the last word, this means you have made the free choice to be my e-husband:ROFL::dancingp:
You know Mark, you get confused only because you are not allowing the Holy Spirit to REVEAL the word to you, and this takes time. Sometimes I go for weeks meditating on a passage or something someone has said, and then it all comes to me.
I think what you're doing is making things more difficult than what they are, you are using your own interpretations and ideas, and imagination, and thoughts to bring you into an understanding based on what and how YOU think it SHOULD be.
Just start relaxing more and meditating on what someone says or what you read without THINKING and/or before giving an answer... only then will God bring revelation in His word, as well as insight into what others speak.
You know the word, but YOU try to make it work, when you should allow the WORD to work in and through you, this is how you gain God's knowledge, His wisdom, and His understanding, and not your own...its called spiritual revealtion and insight which comes from God and not our own thoughts.
You're ok, and I'm proud of your spiritual knowledge that you so have for such a young man in the Lord.:applause::glow:
Biblically:Is a woman qualified to being an Elder-Pastor-Bishop-Overseer..
Posted : 27 Jul, 2010 08:37 AM
Nope, nope...I don't doubt that the bible is correct on this matter. The head of the church must be a man. You're saying that if there is no qualified man, then a woman can take over, right? But a woman is disqualified already. A woman cannot replace a husband, just like a man cannot fill the role of a wife. What I'm confused about is what you're trying to say, and what I'm hearing is you saying that it's ok for them to switch around if one is more qualified than the other, and I don't think that's right. The bible has defined the roles, and a woman is disqualified from being in the role of head of the church. If there is no good man to lead, that doesn't mean a "qualified" woman turns into a elder. I'm sure she can minister to the church, but there's a difference between filling a void left by the absence of an elder, and actually usurping the position.
Biblically:Is a woman qualified to being an Elder-Pastor-Bishop-Overseer..
Posted : 27 Jul, 2010 04:09 PM
I gota share here...I agree with Mark...the Bible is quite clear bout this...I even learnd where some of these terms are listed in Scripture from Trucker, which I appreciate cuz I missed em in my study...as I posted way up on page two ifin my memory is correct...I stated that Scripture does not state Women in Elder-Pastor Bishop or Overseer titles...even though I believe that Women are Quaified to Oversee under the Head ( GOD/Man and/or Husband ) of the Spiritual matters pertainin to Ministerin and Witnessin to people...
I hold a Bible study at my home on Sundays after church...I am the Head of My home...(ie) without Husband...but I do not Lead the Study...a fellow Brother does...
Ella~ I have a question for you...when you complete your schoolin in Theology/Bible courses...What will your Title be ? Pastor, Minister, Doctor ? Ima jus courious...
And in close...the Women mentioned ( Joyce Meyers & Paula White ) that are holdin Titles as Pastors...well...I aint the one ta judge an as I said afor...ifin GOD called then to it...its His call...ta Quote Mark...I guess we'll see when We get there...Yall hava blessed night...luv ya all...xo
Biblically:Is a woman qualified to being an Elder-Pastor-Bishop-Overseer..
Posted : 27 Jul, 2010 09:12 PM
Mark, maybe I should do this with ABC's, communications lines are messing up somewhere by the time you read and process what I've written... This is my spiritual points of view and understanding in response to the question of the topic: As I've always stated God placed man in authority of the home and the church, because the home is symbolic of the church.
A. In the beginning GOD created man first and placed him in charge of the graden which was the first HOME , and the CHURCH that was ro come... and told man to occupy and be in charge.
B. God then decided that man needed a helpmeet or helpmate, and God created woman, and gave man authority to name this person as woman. God place woman second in charge of the garden under the decreed authority of man. God told woman to be a helper to , and along side her husband in all things in the garden, which again, was symbolic of the home and church to come.
C. When man is not in his place the home the woman is in charge. This is why Adam and Eve got into problems. Adam was out of place when the devil came to visit and knocked on the garden door. Instead of Adam answering the door, Eve answered. God had given Adam the rules of the garden, but Adam neglected telling Eve what was expected of her, this put Eve out of orde, and in charger as the one in authority of the garden. Adam was given authority, but he was out of place.
If there are no men in the church to be in charge, the woman is in charge until such a person as a man comes forth to take over. I've ask the question who was the very first woman in the Bible who was a shepherdess?R
emember everything in the Bible from the beginning to the end in the Old testament, is for example and pretaining to the New Testament. Therefore, everything must be revealed from a spiritual view, and not based upon our own thoughts, using information we gather from the old testament.
The very first example of a woman being a shepherdess was Rachel, and when Jacob came on the scene, she sat down and Jacob took over. God for that matter never place women over hard labor in the fields or farming, but He did place women over her houshold and family.
Same principle, if there is no man around to do such work, does the work go undone? I don't think so, that's not how God operates. If the woman qualifies to do the works she is to do the work until there is a suitable replacement this is my point I have been making.
I have never said a woman was given charge over the church, I have said the church's foundation is based upon the same principle as the home was set-up which God established and placed man in authority. God never placed women in authority over the home yet, when there is no man to be in authority, the woman is in authority.
When there is no man in authoruity or qualified to be in charge of God's house which is the church, if there is a suitable woman who is qualified, she is to be in charge. Plain an simple, because when man is out of place in the home and the church, the order is out of place, BUT God's work continues with or without the man, and the woman is the next choice.
Jesus told His disciples to be at the tomb when He returned, but they were not. They were out of place and order, some had gone fishing , some drunk,and eveything else. Yet, Jesus never gave the women any such command or request, but the women were the ones who remembered what Jesus had told the disciples, and they went to do they duities, but Jesus had risen.
So was Jesus suppose to wait until the disciples showed up so He could tell them He had risen? I don't think so, God's work was declared to continue, so Jesus gave the first gospel word ever spoken by Him after His resurrection to a woman to be carried to the MEN who were in doubt and were his disciples (elders).
The woman is to work along side the man in the things of the church. Great example Simeon the priest and the Prophetess Ana in the temple, when it came to blessing Jesus. The Bible tells us that she too, blessed Jesus after the priest, and went and told others all over Jerusalem about the the king. Ana was right beside Simeon when he blessed Jesus, then she blessed Jesus. The priest and the prophetess connection..So if the woman was not allowed to speak in the church or be in such position the temple is the same as the church, so why did God allow Ana to bless the Christ?
A woman carried the very first gospel word of God to the men, WHY? BECAUSE THE MEN WHO WERE SUPPOSE TO BE AT THE TOMB WERE OUT OF PLACE AND DIDN'T NOT OBEY OR BELIEVE WHAT JESUS HAD TOLD THEM! I think ist called REBELLION!
Therefore by example in the Old Testament to the New, the gospel has always been given to the woman when indeed a man was not in place to do the work. And because the man was not available to do as he had been told to do by God, the woman was given authority to carry out the work, And each time when a suitable man came along, the woman took her place beside the man and the gospel word was set forth.
GL. when I graduate I will be Dr. ETcallhome, however I am ordained in the church as an Evangelist, and I go wheresoever GOD sends me for the setting in order the churches who are in need of help, with teaching in bible study, and miniserting the word on Sunday mornings, been doing this since 1985.
The churches don't send me, GOD sends me to the churches He sees and knows need help in answer to thier prayers. And I have been from one end of the south, to the west, to the midwest. I have been spritiually approved in many churches from the baptist, catholic, pentecostal, christian, methodists, church of christ, and nondemoniational churches of all black churches, all white churches, , all hispanic church, and multicultural churches both small and great in the different communities.
These churches I have worked with and in, as a teaher of the word of God and minister of God's word, and helper to the pastors as an adminstrator of the church. Men are there, but show a of lack of knowledge, and lack of interest in many spiritual things... I go and stir up thier gifts.
I have no doubts that what I do its of God otherwise, the churches I have helped over the years would not have had such success in church growth spritually. And since God ain't sit me down insteadHe keeps sending me, ain't nobody gonna sit me down whether they believe what I do is for men only or not.
If my work as an evenagleist in the churches is for men only, then why aren't there no men willing to do what I do, and why does God empower me to keep going forth. Yes, I have ever done church planting, and 35 years later the church is still standing and going strong...how 'bout that?:yay: So my question still remains, Where are the spiritual heads of men who are SUPPOSE to be in authoruty of the church? Or even the home for that matter.
Of course, not all churches have received although they have requested me to come to them. But just as they did with Jesus and the apostles, they ask for help but when help came, and thet people realized they had to do some changes according to God's word to bring change in the church, people don't like this.. they refuse to obey and this is why many churches are in problems.the church is falling because of Rebellion, and these churches who don't obey God's word fall by the wayside. So I just shake the dust and keep moving to the next place God sends me.
