Author	Thread: Why? (A Bible Study)
klmartin62 View Profile History	Why? (A Bible Study) Posted : 5 Jul, 2010 05:49 AM If everyone is saved in exactly the same way, why do salvation experiences vary so greatly? There are scriptures that explain this. Hint: NT Love and grace, Leon Post Reply
View Profile History	Why? (A Bible Study) Posted : 6 Jul, 2010 06:03 PM The issue is the intent of the post, and that is to say that God forced some into the kingdom. We already know he is not a man that he would lie, so I believe the word of God is true. What do we see all thru the word of God, do we not see him time and time again, give man years to repent and they did not, not one time will see him make mankind choose him by him forcing himself on anyone. The word of God says he is not a respecter of persons, and the word says he is just. A just God cannot be a respecter of persons and be just, his will has always been that man choose him freely. Leon in the verse you mentioned compel can be translated other than force, the early strong's says constrain. Post Reply
klmartin62 View Profile History	Why? (A Bible Study) Posted : 6 Jul, 2010 08:16 PM Okay, PJ. What does constrain mean? To hold against one's will. The point is, Jesus is speaking and you are still denying. That man made doctrine must have really been beaten into you for you to deny the word of Christ. There is no getting around what this scripture says, you can't twist it enough to make it back your views, just isn't happening. Now, we have a choice; believe PJ, or believe Jesus. Srry buddy, you lose out on that one. You can deny all you want, this was written in red. Love and grace, Leon Post Reply
DontHitThatMark View Profile History	Why? (A Bible Study) Posted : 6 Jul, 2010 09:16 PM "To hold against one's will", or "force", or "constrain" isn't a change though. If I put you in prison, does that mean you don't really want out? I forced you, I went against your will, but what you want isn't different. I think that is what the man with no robe symbolized. Maybe some that were "forced" to come did hear and believe and change, but some didn't. You would have to take away someone's will completely, and make them truly want whatever you put in front of them. Robotize them. I don't think that's what the bible teaches. The prophet Balaam is a good example of what happens. God forced him to say/do certain things, but Balaam's heart wanted something else and it brought him to be judged with the pagans. :peace::peace: Post Reply
View Profile History	Why? (A Bible Study) Posted : 6 Jul, 2010 10:50 PM What Am I denying Leon other than Satan's lie, the word of God is not our enemy. it is the truth, incorruptible, never changing, and it is full of justice as he is Just, it is Satan that is unjust. A wise man once said when you look in the dictionary at what man has called definitions of a word you will find a problem, for the definitions often conflict with one another. The wise man made a Good point the dictionary only points out how a word has been used in the Past. Leon for me whether it is in red or not for me it is the words of Jesus, for he is The Word plain and simple. He is not a manipulator, nor has he ever been. Love never demands it's own way just as he said. Post Reply
View Profile History	Why? (A Bible Study) Posted : 6 Jul, 2010 11:10 PM The Greek word translated "compel" is very strong. It is the imperative of "anankazo," meaning "force," "compel," or even "drive." John Wesley gives this comment on "compel them to come in," "with all the violence of love, and the force of God's Word. Such compulsion, and such only�was used by Christ and the Apostles" (John Wesley, Explanatory Notes Upon the New Testament, Baker, 1983 reprint, volume I, note on Luke 14:23). Plummer points out that "The compelling was by persuasion" (Alfred Plummer, The International Critical Commentary, Clark, 1952, note on Luke 14:23). We are to persuade you to come into the church. We are to use the force and persuasion of argument to compel you to come into the church. Why should we do this? Early in the third century, Cyprian (c. 250) said, "There can be no salvation to anyone except in the church." This is a truth that needs to be repeated strongly in our day of apostasy, "There can be no salvation to anyone except in the church." That is the normal way people are converted. Post Reply
klmartin62 View Profile History	Why? (A Bible Study) Posted : 7 Jul, 2010 01:17 AM LOL. Wesley? Are you kidding me? You are trying to teach using Wesley? No wonder you are so confused. Wesley took the twisted doctrine of Arminius and really twisted it around. I didn't think anyone took him seriously anymore. Wesley!! That is a first, even for these forums. Okay, so if you add enough to the scriptures you can change the meaning. That is what you just did. I guess "Wesley" knows more than Jesus? I mean, he feels free to change God's word at will, that is putting yourself above God. If you look to the proper meaning, it is not even compel, compel is secondary. The primary usage is to necessitate. I am sorry you do not believe the bible, PJ. It is more reliable than Wesleyan theory. Blessings, Leon Post Reply
klmartin62 View Profile History	Why? (A Bible Study) Posted : 7 Jul, 2010 01:17 AM LOL. Wesley? Are you kidding me? You are trying to teach using Wesley? No wonder you are so confused. Wesley took the twisted doctrine of Arminius and really twisted it around. I didn't think anyone took him seriously anymore. Wesley!! That is a first, even for these forums. Okay, so if you add enough to the scriptures you can change the meaning. That is what you just did. I guess "Wesley" knows more than Jesus? I mean, he feels free to change God's word at will, that is putting yourself above God. If you look to the proper meaning, it is not even compel, compel is secondary. The primary usage is to necessitate. I am sorry you do not believe the bible, PJ. It is more reliable than Wesleyan theory. Blessings, Leon Post Reply
klmartin62 View Profile History	Why? (A Bible Study) Posted : 7 Jul, 2010 05:23 AM Mark, I should have been more clear, it is the drawing that they have no choice in, they do ultimately have to choose Jesus. The Matthew scripture you quoted is a good example of that. Blessings, Leon PS - Good job, I thought I had posted that until I went back and looked. Glad you brought that up. Post Reply
View Profile History	Why? (A Bible Study) Posted : 7 Jul, 2010 05:57 AM Leon there comes a time to but the word of God first, just as You say I do not, I am not trying to promote anybody, but it is time you put down what you believe your experience was and put the word of God first. If what You say is true then God is a respecter of persons, and the word says he is not If what you say is true he changes, and he says he does not. You are also trying to promote a truth that does not agree with the Father. Does it make you feel Great because you feel like you can be right and mock me. What kind of Fruit is that? Love never Demands and according to the word of Truth, he is not Sovereign over all things, because he said he was not. That does not make him any lees God but in my eyes a greater one, and not a dictator but actually a father to those who now accept him. If you feel better jabbing at me, have your way my only motive is ti lift him up. 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 (Amplified Bible) 4Love endures long and is patient and kind; love never is envious nor boils over with jealousy, is not boastful or vainglorious, does not display itself haughtily. 5It is not conceited (arrogant and inflated with pride); it is not rude (unmannerly) and does not act unbecomingly. Love (God's love in us) does not insist on its own rights or its own way, for it is not self-seeking; it is not touchy or fretful or resentful; it takes no account of the evil done to it [it pays no attention to a suffered wrong]. 6It does not rejoice at injustice and unrighteousness, but rejoices when right and truth prevail. 7Love bears up under anything and everything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstances, and it endures everything [without weakening]. 8Love never fails [never fades out or becomes obsolete or comes to an end]. As for prophecy ([a]the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose), it will be fulfilled and pass away; as for tongues, they will be destroyed and cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away [it will lose its value and be superseded by truth]. We have the love of God shed abroad in our hearts to give place to and it will always be by choice, for believers to exercise the love of God, but our father s love, it is who he is, and he will not violate his word. Post Reply
klmartin62 View Profile History	Why? (A Bible Study) Posted : 7 Jul, 2010 08:50 AM PJ, I don't care what you believe any more. I showed you the truth in Jesus' own words and you rejected it and quoted Wesley. I am giving up on you. If God really wants you, He will send someone else. I tried. Also, your love speech would have had an impact if you had actually ever practiced it, but we have all seen your fruit and it has nothing to do with love. Mat 15:8 'THESE PEOPLE DRAW NEAR TO ME WITH THEIR MOUTH, AND HONOR ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR FROM ME. Mat 15:9 AND IN VAIN THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN.' " Good luck, Leon Post Reply

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