Mark and John got a little long-winded/off-topic(Mark's fault) on a previous thread(see link). Mark started attacking John's religion, and John replied in defense.
-------John's Reply------
"I�ll tell you what�s going on.
The Catholic Church owns a lot of art, and a lot of property. And you seem to be implying that those possessions could be sold and used to better serve the poor. Thankfully, you don�t know what you�re talking about, otherwise, the poor would end up getting less help than they�re currently getting. How so?
With respect to the art, a few points are worth mentioning. First, the Vatican charges people to view tour its art galleries. That means the church � the largest charitable organization in the world � gets ongoing revenue from its art collection. Sell the art, lose a large source of yearly income that is going to help the poor. Second, the art collections are largely public. Sell the art, and a huge portion of it goes into private collections, never to be seen or enjoyed by the public again.
Let�s actually take your proposition seriously for a second. Let�s say the Vatican sells 10 billion dollars in art, with the intent of taking that money and using it to serve the poor. Immediately, the high demand for medical supplies and food causes the prices to go through the roof (supply and demand). The result is that the Catholic Church ends up being able to buy less with its one-time surge in revenue. True, the poor might see a modicum of relief in the short-term, but they are going to suffer more in the long-term, once things settle down and the Church no longer has revenue from its art galleries. Do you see how utterly stupid your proposal is? It�s beyond ludicrous.
Now, with respect to property, yes, the Church owns land. What�s on that land though? Churches! Why on earth would the Church sell it�s land? So it can cease existing? Where would the parishioners celebrate the liturgy?
I don�t mind having these kinds of discussions, but we should probably start a separate thread for them, as this is getting way off topic.
By the way, if you want to do a more public debate I�d be happy to discuss the errors of Adventism on another thread. Just let me know.
John."
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Ok...I don't think I need to argue the point about Catholics and money though. What did Jesus tell the rich young ruler to do? I can see the point about wisely managing money, and I can see the point about the art and things that bring in revenue. Contrary to your opinion, my argument is not quite that stupid. I would like to point out though, that 10 million in art is a lot less valuable than investing that 10 million elsewhere. I wasn't thinking about art or land when I made the point about the riches of the catholic church. Adventists own land and companies and publishing houses, there are things that are necessary or helpful to spread the gospel. I was pointing more toward the utensils and extravagance that goes toward the use/portrayal/construction of the various catholic "stuff". I'll admit that most of it was probably acquired before the current era, when Catholics weren't so nice. And I'll admit that every church organization has waste and unnecessary projects. Nothing in this world is perfect, and maybe it's the scale of the catholic denomination that looks so massive to us comparative "Jesus hicks"...but it just seems to me that they could find better things to do with their money.
So how do you want to do this? Move on to another topic or stick with this one? I guess we can moderate ourselves to a degree.
A debate on the dontrinal differences and conduct of Adventists/Catholics
Posted : 30 Jun, 2010 03:43 AM
Don't,
My intention isn't to be mean. But I am willing to follow whatever "tone" someone else wants to set. Again, it's all part of the polemics of the debate. There are certain levels to which I won't stoop, but I don't have any difficulty being as derisive as my opposition.
A debate on the dontrinal differences and conduct of Adventists/Catholics
Posted : 30 Jun, 2010 11:40 AM
Calvin was a voice to his generation, 100's of years ago. But if you are alive today it makes much more sense
to be a voice to this generation rather than echo from the past. The doctrine of God's sovereignty vs man's responsibility is best taken up in private with God in prayer. That is where it counts. :peace:
A debate on the dontrinal differences and conduct of Adventists/Catholics
Posted : 30 Jun, 2010 02:33 PM
Thanks for your comments Arch, response.
Sir James I will have to support my Catholic brothers here.
When I first got saved in the late 1980's Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggert had some sex issues. As a christian I would not want that thrown into my face. So, as a smart move why would we throw into the face of Catholic's Priest who have a sex issue?
Oh, The blank of Babylon can not be the Catholic Church.
Iraq has returned and that is the location of Babylon. Islam hates Jews and Christians. It is a religous war.
A debate on the dontrinal differences and conduct of Adventists/Catholics
Posted : 30 Jun, 2010 07:00 PM
Archimedes said:
Mary...the Tabernacle that Housed Jesus and pumped her own blood through Christ Our Savior.
Not that this is relevant to the debate going on here, but a mothers blood and the baby she carries blood stays separate and never mixes even from conception. That is why Jesus was pure because the blood line comes from the Father and since Mary was a sinner like the rest of us Jesus would have been a sinner as well if He had shared her blood.
A debate on the dontrinal differences and conduct of Adventists/Catholics
Posted : 30 Jun, 2010 10:06 PM
MrRow,
You need to speak with your Doctor and ask them that question...you will be surprised.
The Ark of The Tabernacle was Ordered by God to be made of Pure...Perfect wood and of Gold and Silver because of what it carried. It could not be touched by anyone other then the Priests.
I ask you would God allow Himself to Reside in anything that was impure and with sin? For Nine months Mary was The Ark of The New Convenant and carried Jesus (God Himself). I know this is difficult for many to wrap their heads around, but Mary was a very Special and Vital Person and Jesus Loved His Mother very much.
For 1500 years there was no problem with Mary and what The Church believed and taught. Even Luther continued to believe.
