Yeah,thats pretty much the question.I know a third of the angels followed lucifer in the rebellion,but im not too clear on the ones still remaining with God.anybody care to speculate?
@PJ- Nothing changes. And I think I see where you're going w/ that... And you're entitled to your opinion. All we're doing here is speculating since the Bible does not give us full detail... And I've arrived at a different opinion than you have.
JP- I didn't say that the Word of God is opinion. What I'm saying is that if the Bible doesn't specifically discuss something, then all that we can do is offer our opinions, and as long as our opinions aren't contradicting the Word, I see nothing wrong w/ discussing them. What we should not do is say that Bible says something when in fact it does not.
By all means, if you can locate a verse/passage that precisely describes if angels have free wills and are currently capable of falling, then please post it! I'm sure we would all love to see it =) I've never read one and haven't been able to locate one in my research on the topic today.
That has already been done, the epedemic that is going on thus says, the word is not so, for instance it does not get any simpler than. this epedimic also says the word is an opinion, and that is your interpretation, you can go on and on, yopu either believe it to be true or you don't!!
Jo 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Mt 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
You see according to the will of man, these scriptures mean the chosen, you would need help to believe this does not mean anyone, but some do not want to believe the truth, also to say theses verses do not cover all mankind, defys all all english lessons, but that is the point, for some truth is what they say it is.
You see if you believed this truth God is love: you would understand love never forces it's will on anyone, or demands it's own way.
Thank God a post was just put up concerning this very topic, and watch the opinions concerning it.
Love never forces its will? ,first of all Im not fond of the word force,however,just for sake of debate,did you come into this world on your own,or were you created by God?Of course you were created.So you didnt even have "free Will"(Im als sick of that overused word by men who really value thier own wills),concerning your very existence.Much less,when you were born,to what race,family,gender..ect.The bible doesnt speak much about the free will of man,but rather GODS Will,Jesus commands us to pray,YOUR will be done.Mens pride causes them to naturally desire to elevate ourselves and our position.But the truth is,the lord calls us "clay pots"vessels of mercy created before the foundations of the world,the bible speaks of good works prepared before time begins,that the chosen will walk in.If your gonna tell me chosen dont mean chosen,well im not buyin sorry.............In Christ..........Steve
Steve it depends on you, the bible speaks of the will of man thruout the bible whether you like the term or not is is true, man can do as he wills, a man or woman came into this world under the will of their parents, they did not have to have sex they choose to, because the bible teaches choice and it also tells the choice to make.
One day the child will come to a day of accountability, why is that.
The bible also teaches that if you hear words and accept them, they will become true to the hearer, Satan has always been saying the truth is a lie, and a lie is the truth, and man has a choice what he believes, whether you agree or not.
The wisest man that ever lived Steve said only believe, and he also told mankind what to believe.
He also said the simple know the word, so i am grateful to be simple and childlike.
I continually choose to believe today also, because you will also see in the word some started off believing and then they quit.
Steve it depends on you, the bible speaks of the will of man thruout the bible whether you like the term or not is is true,
James replies:
In talking about salvation Paul, in Romans 9 says "So it does NOT depend on the will of man, but on God who has mercy".
PhillipJohn continues:
man can do as he wills, a man or woman came into this world under the will of their parents, they did not have to have sex they choose to, because the bible teaches choice and it also tells the choice to make.
James replies:
The Bible teaches over and over that FALLEN man does NOT have the ability to choose Jesus, and that God has to make them come alive so that they will choose Him:
EPHESIANS 2:1-3 and you he MADE ALIVE, when you were DEAD through
trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of
this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit
that is now at work in the sons of disobedience. Among these we all
once lived in the passions of our flesh, following the desires of
body and mind, and so we were BY NATURE children of wrath, like the
rest of mankind.
You need to start believing what the Bible says about MAN, PhillipJohn.
PJ continues:
One day the child will come to a day of accountability, why is that.
James replies:
Scripture verse please!
PJ continues:
The bible also teaches that if you hear words and accept them, they will become true to the hearer, Satan has always been saying the truth is a lie, and a lie is the truth, and man has a choice what he believes, whether you agree or not.
James replies:
You have no SCRIPTURE for this!!! You can SAY man has choice, but you have NO SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS IT!!
PJ continues:
The wisest man that ever lived Steve said only believe, and he also told mankind what to believe.
James replies:
Yes, and Jesus ALSO said that ONLY those who the father draws CAN believe in Him! Read John 6.
PJ continues:
He also said the simple know the word, so i am grateful to be simple and childlike.
James replies:
Because the FATHER CHOSE the simple!!
Colossians 3:12: Put on then, as God's CHOSEN ONES, holy and
beloved, compassion, kindness,...
1 Thessalonians 5:9: For God has not DESTINED US for wrath, BUT TO
OBTAIN SALVATION through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 9:11-13: Though they were NOT YET BORN AND HAD DONE NOTHING
EITHER GOOD OR BAD, in order that God's purpose of ELECTION might
continue, NOT BECAUSE OF WORKS but because of his CALL, she was told,
"The elder will serve the younger." As it is written, "Jacob I loved,
but Esau I hated."
Romans 9:16: So it depends NOT UPON MAN'S WILL OR EXERTION, but upon
God's MERCY.
Romans 10:20: "...I have been found by those who did not seek me; I
have shown myself to those who did not ask for me."
1 Corinthians 1:27-29: God CHOSE what is FOOLISH in the world to
shame the wise, God CHOSE what is WEAK in the world to shame the
strong, God CHOSE what is LOW and DESPISED in the world, even things
that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, SO THAT NO HUMAN
BEING MIGHT BOAST IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD.
2 Timothy 1:9: ....who saved us and called us with a holy calling not
in virtue of OUR WORKS but in virtue of HIS OWN PURPOSE and the GRACE
which he gave us in Christ Jesus AGES AGO.
PJ continues:
I continually choose to believe today also, because you will also see in the word some started off believing and then they quit.
James replies:
(Jude 24,25) Now to him who is able to KEEP YOU FROM FALLING and to
present you without blemish before the presence of his glory with
rejoicing, to the only God, our savior through Jesus Christ our Lord,
be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now
James if I was in your place, I would throw away all I thought I knew and start over, you have made it very clear you have written the word of God and exalted your self above him. That is the best way I know to say that, you have proven the very truth about man's will indisputedly clear.
You do as you will I understand that, and I understand that i did not interpret your word's or will, I believe what you say is true to you, but I will never agree it is the truth. I choose to believe the word of God.
I hear your will talking. What I don't see is ANY Scripture to back up your claims. Until you actually have scripture to back up your claim that that The Fall did not kill all mankind spiritually, and those 30 or so verses that say that we do NOT have the ability to choose Jesus on our own, you should repent of your claim.
Here are some more verses on Man's will and you should read these verses and then tell us all how "free" man's will is:
John 8:44 You are of YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL, and YOUR WILL is to do
your father's desires.
Ephesians 2:1,2; And you he made alive, when you were dead through
the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the
course of this world, FOLLOWING THE PRINCE OF THE POWER OF THE AIR,
the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience.
2 Timothy 2:25,26; God may perhaps grant that they will repent and
come to know the truth, and they may escape from THE SNARE OF THE
DEVIL, after being CAPTURED BY HIM TO DO HIS WILL.
1 John 3:10; By this it may be seen who are the children of God,
and who are the CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL: whoever does not do right is
not of God, nor he who does not love his brother.
1John 5:19; We know that we are of God, and the whole world is IN
THE POWER OF THE EVIL ONE.
John 8:34; Jesus answered them, "Truly , Truly, I say to you,
every one who commits sin is a SLAVE TO SIN".
Romans 6:20; When you were SLAVES OF SIN, you were free in regard to
righteousness.
Titus 3:3; For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led
astray, SLAVES to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in
malice and envy, hated by men and hating one another.
