1Tim 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that He by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Romans 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 � For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
There is a lot of Rich knowledge here Benny, can you tell me what it says?
This passage alone totally exposes the lie of calvinism.
If I didn't feel I could have said no and didn't do, how real is it to speak of the possibility? What's the use of such a theoretical construct?
I also have the feeling that we miscommunicate often. But it will be better the more we communicate. It's what I said about cultures. I've met people from many different coutries an continents, it happens again and again. Patience helps, so thank you for being patient.
About Romans 6, I cannot quite follow you. Maybe I have not yet fully understood what it is in Calvinism that yo reject. I am not a Calvinist by the way, but I consider some of his teachings to be not too far from the truth (to put it carefully).
All I can do is guess what you mean. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God? But this is not in contradiction with what Calvin says, or is it? Faith does come from hearing the living word of God (that is, Spirit with the sermon or the bible-words, but most importantly Spirit with it).
Maybe I don't really get what you mean, there's a lot in this passage, but I cannot connect it too good with Calvin and what your problem with him might be... maybe you give me a hint?
I kinda know how you feel. I don't believe I could say "no" to God without dying. But I've seen too many people lose their way to believe that it could never happen. I hope it doesn't...but there is no way I can be sure. And sometimes...we might not say "no", but God does. God doesn't want a "selfish sinner" Christian. There's no place for those in heaven. God will cut us off if we're not trying to follow Him completely. I believe He has that sovereign right.
And yes...I think most of the problem here is not with your personal testimony...it's because we all associate it with "doctrines" that we believe are in error...because it sounds the same. I just think we could all get a long better if we said "I believe" a lot.
it's not quite what I meant. It's not like I was afraid of dying if I reject God, I just don't see why I should do so, or how I could. How can one reject the obvious? If you are fully convinced of a thing, how can you reject it. You can only reject as long as you don't trust it to be true, for whatever reason. Mostly it's a kind of fear or angst that keeps you from confessing what it obvious, and this fear makes the obvious inobvious for us, it brings in doubts and other ways to interpret things.
Like if we hear God speaking to us, we could still claim to have gone nuts and hear voices, if you know what I mean. But this isn't what I experienced, that was rather something like not leaving any questions behind or unanswered. I knew I was a sinner and I saw no other consequence than believe the Lord. It's hard to express in words, especially in a foreign language (though I couldn't explain it any better in german I'm afraid).
I know there are people losing their faith. But we never know where it leads to. I can guess God recollects them in time again, I don't know. A friend of mine has lost His connection to God, and he's miserable about it, but for whatever reason (he wasn't clear when telling me) he said he could not believe anymore, though he knows God exists. I have deep hopes that God will show him the way back one day.
I believe it's in vain reasoning why God cuts one off or not. We cannot understand His ways, and it's none of or business, if you ask me. So if God says no, He has all reason (and sovereignity of course even more so) to do this, but I won't believe that He just did it for fancy, He has the best reason to do so.
I've been through being called a non believer for not fitting too good in categories. So yes, I think you are right, the problem seems to be rather not my testimony but that I think in categories some connect with wrong doctrines. I'm used to it and I saw it coming, though yes, I got emotional over it here, which I maybe should not have.
I cannot say that it wasn't the same vice versa, like some people here seem to fit into categories that I consider wrong doctrines, but I keep telling myself that people hardly ever fit into categories, and to try to get through to what they mean, rather than categorize what they say.
But hey, after a while it will all be clearer. I am strange in a way, and people will realize that maybe what they understand in the first place isn't what I meant. After all, isn't this the reason to have fellowship at all?
3, okay, if I try to look at it your way I can count 2: Confess with the moth the Lord Jesus Christ and believe in the heart (that would be brains in today's language) that the Father raised Him from the dead...
Don't you agree that this will come naturally and necessarily with faith that is given by God?
Eph 2,8f:
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
God ordained us to have faith, and true faith will result in us confessing Jesus and believe the resurrection. Nothing is our work for we shall not boast, but it is all done by God.
Or would you say grace is the precondition for us to be able to save ourselves by works like confessing and believing? Wouldn't that be ignoring the whole greatness of the glory of God?
