Author	Thread: nothing you did(including choosing god)
Admin	nothing you did(including choosing god) Posted : 10 Apr, 2010 05:54 AM Paul teaches clearly that it is only when salvation is attributed to undeserved election that we can know god saves who he wills of his own good pleasure.he is under obligation to no one.When paul states that we werre "chosen in christ before the foundation of the world (eph.1,4)he makes it clear that there is no regard for our own worth.We were adopted into heavenly inheritance in christ because in ourselves we are incapable of such attainment.Elsewhere he tells the collossians to give thanks that they had been made fit to share in the inheritance of the saints(col.1;12) If election comes before the divine grace wich makes us fit for immortal life,what does god see in us to persuade him to elect us?Another passage makes this even clearer.God "chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through jesus christ,in accordance with his pleasure and will(eph.1;4-5)good works are never taken into account.Paul makes this clear.God has saved us and called us to a holy life-not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace.this grace was given us in christ jesus before the beginning of time (2 Tim.1;9) Post Reply
View Profile History	nothing you did(including choosing god) Posted : 14 Apr, 2010 05:13 AM as surely as gods will prevails,good works are never taken in to account.Paul makes this clear;god has saved us and called us to a holy life-not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace.This grace was given us in Christ jesus before the beginning of time(2 Tim.1;9) Post Reply
View Profile History	nothing you did(including choosing god) Posted : 14 Apr, 2010 10:19 AM Deeds help nothing. Only faith helps. And faith is not a deed, it's a condition. If we are in the condition of faith, we do good deeds, if not, we might seem to do good deeds, but the good we do we do not for the glory of God, so we do it in vain, and they are truely sins. I am still not sure whether there is somehting like a free will. Of course the bible tells us to do this and that, but it tells us also to love, to believe. So we are on a dating site here: When you date someone, when do you decide to love her or him? Or is it a feeling, a condition you get into not by yourself? That's how I think it is with faith, for faith in the Lord means to love the Lord above all. Post Reply
View Profile History	nothing you did(including choosing god) Posted : 14 Apr, 2010 08:31 PM Okay... I know PJ doesn't always word his retorts the best way, but I believe he has a point. According to the beliefs being discussed here, God chooses to save you, then you have no say in it. You're saved. Therefore, those that AREN'T saved must have never been offered that grace. THIS is the problem. It's basically like saying that God showed favoritism to certain ones when we KNOW that God shows no favoritism. That's scriptural. (too lazy to look up the verse. lol. msg me if you want it and I'll search for it). God offers this grace to any and every person who calls upon His name. That's the point PJ is trying to make, and I think it's a very valid point. In Christ Garrett Post Reply
View Profile History	nothing you did(including choosing god) Posted : 15 Apr, 2010 02:02 AM There is no question about Jesus having died for all. That's hat the bible says. But the bible also says that faith is caused by God and not a deed of man. That is my main point. Question is, how to bring those two together. One possibility woul be: In the end, all will be saved, but the bible also speaks of hell and people being lost. Thi is indeed a tough issue and I think we won't be able to solve it in this world. Basicaly the question is the theodicee question: Why does God let evil happen? He coul have made us so that we will not o wrong. Then some bring in free will. But still, He cou make things so clear to us that we freey chose Him. Otherwise He would reveal things to some and not to others, or He would chose to make some people stubborn (which is also mentioned in the bible, think of Pharao at Mose's times) which woul be soe kind of negative favoritism. The only way to escape this is to say: All go to heaven, but not all do know yet... which would also be not in accordance with the bible, if I remember right. I guess we just need some more revaletions to understand. But I have faith that we will be given those in time. He knows best when it's time to do so. God bless you all Post Reply
DontHitThatMark View Profile History	nothing you did(including choosing god) Posted : 15 Apr, 2010 08:58 AM I believe that if God were not in the world, through His word or influence or spirit...then no one would ever know God and never come to Him...obviously. Through God's influence in the world, through His word, and through the "foolishness of preaching"...people know God. God's draws people to Him. Does He force it? I don't believe that. The bible constantly says "believe, believe, believe, believe, believe...and you will be saved". Not "you're saved, now believe". Before you can believe, you have to hear...and before you can hear, God has to speak. Does God get to choose who He speaks too? I believe He does. Does He speak to everyone? I believe He does(All men everywhere). Does everyone choose to believe God? I don't believe they do. I believe we have to listen...but I don't believe we're forced to believe. I believe we have free will. If you don't believe me...don't listen. I believe I've said "believe" a lot. :peace::peace: Post Reply
View Profile History	nothing you did(including choosing god) Posted : 15 Apr, 2010 11:28 AM Right on Hitman Mark ~ I BELIEVE that made Perfect sense...xo...:rocknroll: Post Reply
SOS4EMAILFRIEND View Profile History	nothing you did(including choosing god) Posted : 15 Apr, 2010 12:15 PM We are all circling around a secret. We will not know (in this life) because we must believe. Believing means not be able to prove it. Believing means not being able to answer all questions. Believing also means feeling deep down inside that it is true. Faith is not built upon knowledge. It is built upon belief, trust and hope. Who God selects and has chosen is not for us to know. When the Messiah will return is not for us to know. Meanwhile we are alive and living. The question is: do you believe? One thing is crystal clear for me. Those who do not believe are not in charge of their lives. God uses their disbelief and in His due time, He will reveal Himself. And as I have seen so many many times: when He does. It becomes dead quiet. No one speaks no more. There is just the worshipping confession that He is the sovereign ruler of this universe. And the Word goes on and on.... that His only begotten Son was sacrified to compensate our deep sins... Do you believe? Post Reply
View Profile History	nothing you did(including choosing god) Posted : 15 Apr, 2010 01:38 PM @Mark: Why make up a timeline: 1st believe than saved or vice versa? I always understood it as being the same, yo can use it as synonyms. Being saved means to believe and to believe means being saved. But did you chose to believe in God? Did you wake up one morning and think to yourself: Hmm, why not believe in God today? I'm sure you didn't but there was something different happening. And this something different, did this leave you a chance to say no? Like a chance to chose between pepsi or coke in the supermarket? Just being curious, as everybody here is holding up having a choice to reject Christ... I'm unable to do so (though I know some say I already did). @Harriet: Thank you for your post. Exactly what I think. When He reveals Himself all becomes dead quiet and people subdue themselves to Him, praising His grace and glory... God bless you all Post Reply
DontHitThatMark View Profile History	nothing you did(including choosing god) Posted : 15 Apr, 2010 07:43 PM Ok. :peace::peace: Post Reply
View Profile History	nothing you did(including choosing god) Posted : 15 Apr, 2010 09:51 PM Hitman nailed it right on the Mark. (pun intended. lol) In Christ Garrett Post Reply

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