Just something I've been thinking about recently... what exactly IS ministry? What is it supposed to look like? Let me explain just why I've been thinking about what seems to be such an easy-to-answer question...
Everywhere I look, there are people who are called into ministry. These are the people that are supposed to be leading the rest of us. It seems, however, that people are starting to confuse the word minister with condemn. Ministry seems to be an excuse for people to tell everybody else what they're doing wrong. Does EVERYONE do this? No. But I'm worried about this. Even unbelievers are seeing this. They seem to believe that almost all christians are hypocrites or judgmental. On top of that, I believe that many christians are beginning to simply accept this. I believe they are becoming too comfortable with going to the pastor of a church than going to God. We are starting to see pastors as the final word. THIS is the danger behind denominations, I think. Relying more on the word of your pastor than the Word of God. I'm not saying denominations are evil. I just believe that we are shifting the authority from God to... us. I guess THAT'S the main thing that's bothering me.
And now that THAT'S said, I have something else that's actually JUST NOW hit me... I think that we are "using" God's Word to help us accomplish this. Kind of like... "Oh... This is the answer, let me find some scriptures that agree with me" instead of "Based off of my reading of the Bible, I believe this is the answer." Satan did something similar. He wanted Jesus to abuse his power... submit himself to Satan... so he found scriptures that helped to support his claims.
So, I think the thing to do is to humble oneself. Ministers and pastors need to become humble. Those that went through years and years of college and training need to take a step down. We need to get off of the throne and let God take His rightful seat where He belongs.
Sorry for the rant. I realize that this may seem just kinda scattered... I just kinda typed while I thought... like thinking aloud, I guess. I hope that this act of randomness will either help you or provoke insightful conversation so as to help myself. Either way, thanks for listening! :angel:
thank you for your reply. Maybe I expressed myself not good enough when speaking about different cultures and such.
I never meant to sa there were different gospels throughout the worl, it's all one.
But the way we treat those we call leaders differs. Some societies have leaders that rue over everything, ad some have leaders that just do administrational work.
Maybe we have to talk about what we understand under spiritual leader. I for my part cannot understand anything more than somethig like an advisor. Somebody who is wiser than me and has more experience, thus elder as being derived from "older".
I have a deep feeling of mistrust to any form of dictating me what to do. After all, it is me before God, and there's no one in between (except for Jesus who is between me and the Father, but Jesus is God Himself).
I am a bit surprised as I thought this idea of the individual standing before God with no one in between who can order me what to do or leave, was common for all churches and denominations in the tradition of the reformation.
I just visit a class on Zwingli and his idea of authority and there again one can clearly see that the old church (now called Roman Catholic) had the idea of the priest being above the flock, while Zwingli, and in Germany also Luther and all the other reformers said that there was only the individual before God, and that the individual was responsibe for his walk alone and could not accuse the shepard.
This is why Luther could reject the emperor and the pope and say that he was bound by his conscience, and that he only accepted to be proofed wrong by reason and the bible (though one has to be careful not to mix this up with modern bibicism, Luther was very free from the surface of the biblical word).
He accepted no leader in a way that would be above him, though he accepted advice, he was still seeking to discuss with people, he even wanted to go to Italy and discuss with the pope (but the prince of his country didn't let him leave).
You are right about what you say according to Jer 23. But this is what God says after He had punished leaders and people and brought them to exile. The leaders met the decisions, but the people had t suffer from the Babylonian army as well. Jerusalem was destroyed, a wasteland, and this had not been only the home to the king, priests and false prophets, it was also the home of those mislead.
So if you want to call me stubborn for taking my own responsibility before the Lord and not obey the orders of some manly spiritual leader, than I am glad to be stubborn.
I do listen to advice, I do think about what others tell me, but I will not switch my brains off and follow just anyone who proclaims to know the truth. Paul writes to proof the spirits and take the good. This is not being under men, but being on the same level.
The leadership in faith is only for God, the pastors, elders etc have no other purpose than to administer God. They are usually supported by the congregation to not have to earn their own money and so be able to study the bible in depth, to be able to give good advice to the flock. But their job is not to tell people what to do, none of them can take the place of God, they can only say what they believe God wants us to do or leave etc...
You are right when you say I cannot lead mysef. But no oter man or woman can lead me, only God can.
What is the difference between what you say about leadership and being under a eader and than not follow him anymore when he leads to hell, and me saying I was not under a leader but take advice from him and decide (not on my own, but in prayer and listening to the Lord, maybe I shoud point this out to make it clear) whether his ways lead to hell or not?
I know there are poeple with other gifts and I am glad to meet them and feel blessed every tie I do, because they have the gift to do and explain things I cannot do on my own. The sheep of the flock need one another.
In all this I am not looking to do things my way, though you seem to think so. I seek God's way, and I think it's closer to God's way to trust Him rather then men. I do consider what different leaders say, and I find many good things that I will defend before others. Maybe this is why conservatives call me liberal and liberals call me conservative. I hardly fit into those categories (though I do come from a liberal background).
Back to the "stubborn" word once again: I certainly cannot say I was not stobburn towards God, but who could do so and not lie. I see that I am stubborn when t comes to what men tell me, and I see no wrong in this, as long as what they tell me is not from God.
But about the authority. When you say authority, what do you mean is a thing the spiritual leader can do with me or make me do due to his authority? Tell m at which times to pray? Tell me what to wear in church? Tell me to cut my hair, shave my beard? Tell me to read a certain passage of the bibe on a certain day?
I am not sure if I unerstood by what you mean with authority, there has to be some example to clear things up, I'd appreciate very much if you coud give me such an example to understand you.
(this is what I mean by cultural difference, we fill words with different meanings in USA, Europe or Asia, but there is no difference in what God says. In order to understand it at every place, we use different words and descriptions to get though the same message).
I do not mean to shock you, but I am not so "new" to studying. I study theology since 2004 and it's not that I have never seen a bible before or experienced God before or heard abou Him before. In Germany we have church kindergartens and religious education class in school...
But I canot say that I have such a long experience in studying as you have, and of course I am searching as we are all searching in this world, aren't we? Who could say that h already had all the truth? Woudn't this be blasphemy to proclaim having understood the endless God with the finite reasoning of men?
Sorry for being so long again. I just can't write short...
God bless you
De Benny
PS: Basel is one hour by train, I live in Bern which would be the capital if Switzerland had a capital. The government is here. Basel is on the border to Germany, so I get though there whenever I go home to visit my parents.
SNAP! SNAP! Sorry, Benny, I had just finished writing you such a beautiful reply (in my eyes anyway...LOL) and the site went off, and my response was not posted... I will try to remember, or else I will see if I have time to PM you.
I know the problem. I started writing the answers in an text editor and then copy and paste it to the site. So I also have the recent postings in the thread before me...
I'd be very interested in your answer, so I'd appreciate it very much if you found the time... but I don't mean to push
