The Mosaic Law/Covenant was a specific Covenant given exclusively to Israel and was never binding upon mankind as a whole. This has been a source of confusion among Christians. Let's look at to whom the Mosaic Covenant was given to.
Exod 31:16-18
16 Wherefore ***the children of Israel*** shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
17 It is a sign ***between me and the children of Israel*** for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.(KJV)
Deut 5:1-3
1 And Moses called ***all Israel, and said unto them***, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
2 The LORD our God made a covenant ***with us*** in Horeb.
3 The LORD ***made not*** this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
(KJV) [Moses them recounted the 10 Commandments in the following verses].
We see clearly from these statements that the Old Covenant, and particularly the 10 Commandments, were NOT universal laws binding on all mankind since creation, but were specific to Israel, from the days of Moses onward. There is no escaping this conclusion if you one understands Grammar and Context.
So are the Ten Commandments part of the Mosaic Covenant?
Exod 34:28
28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables........
***the words of the covenant,*** the ten commandments.
(KJV)
Deut 4:13
13 And he declared unto you ***his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments;*** and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
(KJV)
So we see from the above scriptures that the Ten Commandments are in fact "The Covenant" or let's say the centerpiece of the Mosaic Covenant.
Now when Jesus came He came to give us a New Covenant via His sacrifice for us. It is through His sacrifice in which we are able to be grafted into the Jewish New Covenant and inherit the blessings of entering the Kingdom of God.
Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of ***the new covenant,*** which is shed for many for the remission of sins. NKJV
Now below is the Prophesy of that NEW Covenant that God promised Israel.
Jer 31:31-32
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: (KJV)
It must be emphasized that this NEW Covenant is NOT a Gentile Covenant but a Jewish Covenant given to Israel First and then we who are Gentiles can be "grafted into" this Jewish Covenant. Jesus gave the New Covenant to His Apostles who are the 12 representatives of the 12 tribes of Israel in whom the Promise of this NEW Covenant was promised by God.
So now that we have a New and better Covenant, what happened to the Old one? It was completely done away with and replaced.
Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a ***better covenant, which was established on better promises.***
7 For if that FIRST covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH�
9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Now look what Paul says next about the New and Old Covenants.
13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first OBSOLETE. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to VANISH AWAY.
Paul said that the first Covenant, the Mosaic Covenant, has been made "obsolete" and that it was ready to "vanish away". Why is that? Because The New Covenant that was promised by God has now come into being. God fulfilled His promise to Israel that He made in Jeremiah 31:31. He was going to make a New Covenant and it was NOT going to based upon the Old Mosaic Covenant. It was going to be something entirely new.
Heb 10:8-10
8 Above when he said, "Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law";
9 Then said he, "Lo, I come to do thy will, O God." ****
He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.***
Did you catch that? God took away the FIRST Covenant, the Mosaic Covenant so THAT He may establish the SECOND Covenant, the New Covenant that Christ brought in.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. (KJV)
In verse 9 above we have clear language that demonstrates that God took away the Mosaic Covenant so that He may establish the Second Covenant.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having ***ABOLISHED*** in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Above in Ephesians 2:14 we see that Jesus Christ "abolished" the Law of commandments contained in ordinances. What are those? Those are all the Laws contained in the Mosaic Covenant. All 613 of them which includes the original Ten Commandments. Does this mean that we can now murder and commit adultery? Of course not. Jesus implemented God's "Moral Principles" in the New Covenant which is also known as "The Law of Christ". It is important to distinguish between God's "Moral Principles" and the laws themselves. In part two I will address the New Covenant, The Law of Christ. Before I do I would like for you to examine the situation that the Early Church was having regarding the Gentiles and how the leaders of the Church came to the theological conclusion that the Gentile Christians were never under "the Mosaic Law" and were never bound to any of it's requirements.
(Acts 15:23-24) �The apostles, the elders, and the brethren, To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings,
Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, �You must be circumcised and keep the law� � to whom we gave no such commandment � it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth.
For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.� .
Act 21:18 On the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present.
19 When he had greeted them, he told in detail those things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.
20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, "You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law;
21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.
22 What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come.
23 Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow.
24 Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law.
25 But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality."
I can understand your frustration as I never receive a post to my questions either so Im here so that we can banter as I can become as blunt as you so we should have some fun:hearts:This post seems to be a mish mash and my attempt will be to clarify a few points?
Original post: The Mosaic Law/Covenant was a specific Covenant given exclusively to Israel and was never binding upon mankind as a whole. This has been a source of confusion among Christians. Let's look at to whom the Mosaic Covenant was given to.
Me: In Genesis 9: we see God making a Covenant with Noah and his family (Gentiles), just as God had made a covenant with The children of Israel. In his covenant with the family of the Gentiles and they are basically the ten commandments:
Noahide Law Ten Commandments
1. The practice of equity. #9&10 Not lying or coveting.
2. Blaspheming the Name. #2 Name of the Lord in vain
3. Idolatry #1&3 Making graven images
4. Sexual immorality #7 Commit adultery
5. Bloodshed #6 Murder
6. Robbery #8 Steal
7. Eating limb torn from a live animal.
The covenant with Noah is with all peoples. Later God makes a separate covenant with Abraham while he is still under the Noahide covenant. The Abrahamic covenant declares that because of Abraham's faith, God promises him a son in whom all nations will be blessed. Abraham believes God, as a gentile and his faith is "accounted as righteousness" . This occurs before the covenant of circumcision in the flesh and 430 years before the covenant of law with is children of through Jacob ( the children of Israel). There is no covenant of the law of Moses in existence at the time of Abraham.
Now let us see, we have a list of commandments contained in the Genesis 9, which God gives to Noah. And that is why they are called, "THE NOAHIDE LAWS" . Now what commandment is missing this list, that is missing in the New Testament? What commandment is missing in this list that is missing in from Acts 15? What commandment does Paul fail to tell the Gentiles to Keep? What Commandment does Christ fail to command the Gentiles to keep? What commandment does Peter and all the Apostles fail to tell the Gentiles to Keep? ANSWER: THE SABBATH! That is why these exact commandments are repeated in Acts 15. while the Sect of the Pharisees wanted the Gentiles to be "commanded to keep the Law of Moses" (Acts 15:5) but FIRST they had to be circumcised. Absolutely not, says the Apostles.
430 years later comes the covenant at Mount Sinai. This covenant is with the Children only from Jacob (Israel). Thus, they are called "children of Israel" who are physical descendants of Jacob only. In this covenant God gives them all the laws of the Law of Moses. Exodus 20-24. The children of Israel agree to keep the laws. It is covenant strictly between God and the children of Israel. The gentiles are not required to obey the laws of a covenant made with a separate people alone. The Mosaic Covenant.
The sabbath, new moons, holy days, food laws, washing laws, sacrifices, offerrings and hundreds of other laws are all apart of the covenant. The gentiles are not expected to observe these laws because it is a special covenant between God and the children of Jacob. The gentiles didn't agree to keep any of it and are not commanded to observe it. This is referred to as the Old Covenant.
This covenant was to last until the promise of Abraham was to be fulfilled when the Messiah would come and not just the nation Israel would be blessed but the whole world, all nations and many nations as Paul would say. The world is still under the covenant with Noah, Israel is under its special covenant with God of which the Sabbath is the "sign" of the Old Covenant. -R Clanton
The original post is correct in that the Mosaic Laws were never binding upon mankind as a whole but the Noahide Laws were (basically the ten commandments) so I guess Im missing the whole point of this heated discussion:laugh:
Did God make the covenant with Noah and his family or was it binding upon the whole world as well? You have to prove your point with clear scriptures to support your assertions.
1 Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. 2 The fear and dread of you will fall upon all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along the ground, and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hands. 3 Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.
4 "But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it. 5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man.
6 "Whoever sheds the blood of man,
by man shall his blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made man.
7 As for you, be fruitful and increase in number; multiply on the earth and increase upon it."
I take from this covennant that the accounting will be "from each man" and as all nations were derived from the sons of Noah (multiple and fill the earth) this covenant was directed to forthcoming generations (Gentiles) with the Mosaic also encompassing/including the Noahide Covenant. Also, Noah and his sons were not the only ones created in the image of God for "God has made man" again encompassing more than just the direct family of Noah. If it was just for Noah and his family why was it still being carried 400 yrs to the Mosaic Covenant?
A point of interest ..a Gentile cannot live in Isreal even to this day without following the Noahide Covenant (not the Mosaic Covenant as you have rightly pointed out)
Thanks for your comments. Shall be more careful with the choice of word.
To Chering,
Your understanding of covenant is close to mine but a bit different.
To Walter:
Answer to your question.
1. Jews or Gentiles?
Neither. New creation (Colossians 3:10-11)
2. So to WHOM was this Covenant given to and WHO was required to keep it?
The world. I am saying this because for you, law and the covenant is the same. Why I said the world. Paul said it is not important who inherit the law (to you it is equivalent to covenant) but whoever obey the law become righteous even the Gentiles (Romans 2:12-16).
Using your logic, even the new covenant is only for the Jews "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel, after that time, declares the Lord." Hebrews 8:10. It specifically mentioned house of Israel. We are the spiritual descendant of Abraham. Do you know David the king is not purely Jews?
Your understanding of the covenant is total different from mine. You hold that covenant is the law, I said it is different, because the initial covenant have fault, the law given by God is perfect. How can something be perfect at the same time faulty? Law of God existed before covenant with Moses. As it is everlasting, it must have existed before the covenant with Moses. Your understanding of the law is also different-you understand it as something written and it is written in the Torah. For me, Mosaic law is all the books in the OT (1 Corinthians 14:21).
Argument on grammar.
I understand what you said. You put a limit on the verse commandments on the sermon of the mount. For me, there is no limit to God's word. When you say commandments, you limited it to Jesus. For me Jesus is God, and there is no other commandments he could means but God's (that's why Jesus did not mention any commandments because there is only 2, commandments of God and commandments of man and he cannot meant commandments of man). What is the commandments of God? That is the very first word God commanded to the very last.
To remind you how your argument base on grammar alone had miss the original meaning in Matthew 5 :
You say that the prophet teachings is not part of the law.
you say to law shall pass away when all is fulfilled, yet you fail to define when does all is fulfilled happen.
Last but not least: How you explain Luke 16:17: "And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail". And how you explain sin without law?
dear daniel,,, youre welcome but it is i who thanks you..
you and chering are definitely giving us some food for thought as well.
thanks to all of ya as i am really enjoying these discussions.. they cause ya to stop, think ,search both scriptures and ones heart as to what one believes they are saying to ya...
Thanks so much for you kind words and welcome for it is greatly appreciated! I truly enjoy receiving others point of view (even when quite opposite at times) and totally love discussing/learning/meditating on the word of God. I truly believe you could study it for a lifetime and still never discover its many facets of truth and revelation. Its awesome!
Thanks for welcoming me to your forum and blessings to you and yours!
It is a mistake to say that the old covenant have fault as most people understand it. "For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:" seems to place the fault with the covenant, but when examine carefully, it uses the word them. The fault did not lies in the covenant but with the people who keep breaking it. So God amend the covenant by putting the laws into people heart.
God made two types of covenant with man. The first with Adam which is the covenant of work. Once Adam had sinned, God made a new covenant: covenant of Grace. By grace, God allowed Adam to live on through sacrifice. Because by law, Adam should have been dead. So by grace, covenant is made with Noah, Moses, etc. because by law, the wages of sin is death. The final covenant, the new covenant, was given when the problem of sin is solved by the coming of Christ.
It is interesting though that "man" in general was only accountable for taking the life of another man. None of the other requirements were placed upon "man" like they were upon Noah. So to go beyond this context would be taking it too far in my opinion.
Your questions I have already answered in my posts. But I will refresh your memory so so much has been written. Please study this carefully as much is contained in this and addresses your questions.
Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
First it is important to notice that Jesus did not say just "the Law". He also mentioned "the Prophets". Why do you think that is? Do you think He was talking exclusively about the Mosaic Law or was there something else intended? If Jesus was coming just to "fulfill The LAW" then no mention of the Prophets would have been necessary.
When we deal with "Prophets" we normally are dealing with "Prophesies". What prophesies?"
Jesus was talking about coming to fulfill all the Prophesies that are contained in the Mosaic Law and the Prophets concerning His First Coming. Is there any other passage of scripture in the New Testament that could help us confirm this? Yes.
After the Resurrection Jesus met up with two Disciples on the road to Emmaus and had an interesting conversation with them. In fact Jesus taught them many things. What things?
Luke 24:25 Then He said to them, "O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!
26 Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?"
27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself. NKJV
Luk 24:44 Then He said to them, "These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me."
45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.
46 Then He said to them, "Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day,
47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
So we that Jesus explained to them about all the Prophesies concerning Himself from Moses onward including all the Prophets.
Now let's continue with the rest of this passage and look at other misinterpretations.
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
It is very important to get the Grammar correctly here. Notice above that Jesus is NOT saying that the law will not pass away until heaven and earth passes away. He is saying that it will not pass away UNTIL ALL IS FULFILLED. Did Jesus fulfill all the Prophesies concerning His First Coming? Of course He did. Then since He fulfilled these prophesies then the Law can in fact pass away and did. That is what Jesus is talking about and if it is not then we have a huge contradiction with other NEW Testament passages that clearly shows the Mosaic Law....ALL of it, including the Ten Commandments, was completely replaced, done away with, made obsolete. Before I address the scriptures dealing with the Mosaic Law, let me finish this passage.
Now in verse 19 we have another statement that has many confused. Grammar again is so important.
19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. NKJV
The key here is to understand what Jesus is saying when He says "these commandments". There are two possibilities in the Greek grammar regarding "these commandments".
First off Jesus didn't mention any Commandments yet. We cannot make any arbitrary statement and say He was talking about Moses as He simply did not say which ones. We could include the commandments to Noah as well if we go down that path.
The word "these" is a demonstrative pronoun and can either be an "Antecedent" or "Postcedent".
Jesus is either referring to the Antecedent...previous verses of Mat 5:3 -16 or Postcedent....the following verses after His statement which would be the rest of the entire Sermon on The Mount. Considering the extensiveness of the rest of the Sermon on the Mount compared to just a few verses previously taught, it would be a more weighty conclusion that Jesus was referring to the rest of His sermon. [postcedent.]
Additionally we have a statement from Jesus at the end of this discourse that solidifies my position.
Mat 7:24 "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock:
What sayings? All the teachings He just gave us in Matthew chapters 5,6 & 7.
Additionally Daniel, your understanding of "The Law" and "The Mosaic Covenant" as being separate is not supported by Scriptures. I think you are making an arbitrary conclusion. Both terms are interchangeable as they are both the very same thing.
James 2:11 For He who said, "DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY," also said, "DO NOT MURDER." Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of ***the law. ***
This is the same commandments given in the Mosaic Covenant because "The Law" is the Mosaic Covenant.
Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
Daniel, WHEN was "the Law" made according to this passage? When was 430 later?
His is speaking of the Mosaic Covenant and that is "The Law".
