Author	Thread: 1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean?
Admin	1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean? Posted : 7 Dec, 2009 11:23 AM Here is another article addressing the bad English translation due to Calvinistic bias of the translators. This is also a very important article and well worth the time to read and study it. http://www.pfrs.org/commentary/1Peter1_1.pdf Blessings! Walter Post Reply
DontHitThatMark View Profile History	1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean? Posted : 11 Dec, 2009 09:52 AM No, He wouldn't. It's free will. That would be like saying a car manufacturer is responsible for auto accidents. Even if He knew what was going to happen, and gave them warnings(which He does)...it doesn't mean that they aren't going to crash. Obviously. How many times did that happen in the bible? God says "don't do it", and they do it anyway and meet horrible consequences. God did everything to divert their path and they still chose the wrong one. Balaam would be a good example. And still, can you apply your "formula" to Satan? He was created perfect. The bible says Lucifer was "PERFECT" in all his ways. How did he sin? Because he was created "perfect" with free will. We are degenerate with free will, under the curse of Adams sin...but God still wants every one. :peace::peace: Post Reply
View Profile History	1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean? Posted : 11 Dec, 2009 04:51 PM so your telling me god cant predict the future? why cant you answer this.....god knows whats going to happen?Warnings or not......free will or not........repeat after me.....if god knows what happens before it happens.....then.......he created some beings for destruction.....peiriod! man is not gods partner,his free will cannot overide gods sovereignty If god wanted everyone saved theyed be saved to use your "logic" if I sold a car to a young couple with kids knowing they would drive off the lot and be involved in a horrible accident killing them all.and that they wouldnt heed my warnings,no matter how many I gave them...... yet I didnt have to.....but I sold them the car anyway why not just not sell them the car?Its not like they could go to another car dealer....... no Mark......Theres no getting around ,Either way....God created beings that he knew full well would suffer hell And yes I think humans do have some free will,and that they are free to come to god......but they wont! they dont desire the things of god.....they want to be their own gods. thats why the things of god seem foolish to the unregenerate matter of fact.....they cant stand being around that christian party pooper....raining on their sin parade until the wind blows where it may.... In Christ Steve Post Reply
DontHitThatMark View Profile History	1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean? Posted : 11 Dec, 2009 08:06 PM um...still don't think it works like that. God created us with the power to choose. Knowing that some would sin(not by His choice, by the sinners choice) does not mean He created them to die. He created them with a chance to live and they didn't want it. Death is not something God wants. It'd be like you having a child. Everybody dies. Should you not have kids because you know they'll die? Shouldn't that stop people from making babies? Why have kids? So they can experience life? So they can return the love you give them? Just think about it... mediocrity Post Reply
DontHitThatMark View Profile History	1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean? Posted : 11 Dec, 2009 08:08 PM oops... :peace::peace: Post Reply
View Profile History	1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean? Posted : 12 Dec, 2009 01:09 AM not the same scenario,maybe I wouldnt have that child if I foreknew it was going to be Hitler or sadaam hussein...ect. and suffer eternal damnation yes our children die,but they also have a chance for salvation,and we cant see the future god created hitler,knowing he would not choose him,also knowing the evil he would cause,also knowing he woul be eternally damned........any other conclusion limits gods omnisceince, he cant know everything and not know everything this is nonsense,the stuff of grade schoolers time to grow up! In Christ Steve Post Reply
View Profile History	1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean? Posted : 12 Dec, 2009 07:40 AM dear man, your words here Theres no getting around ,Either way....God created beings that he knew full well would suffer hell mine here genesis 6:5-8 5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the Lord said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them." 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. if youll pay close attention to these verses here youll see that GOD had already made man to be on the earth.. and in verse 5 youll see that then the LORD saw the wickedness of man.. and that HE was sorry HE made man on the earth.. so ya see the word then means HE didnt make any of them beforehand to be wicked and evil.. but thats how they turned out to be.. cause then HE seen theyd turned out that way ... and HE was sorry HE made man on the earth... HE D of never been sorry if HE D of made them that way to begin with.. i mean if you made something to be evil and wicked then how could you be sorry you made it that way? thats easy ya cant. ole cattle Post Reply
View Profile History	1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean? Posted : 12 Dec, 2009 10:03 AM This articcle explains it better than I can Cattle How Can Genesis 6:6 Say That God Was Sorry For Doing Something? -by Tony Warren This is one of those questions which many Theologians have a difficult time in answering. In Genesis 6:6 it says that the Lord repented or was sorry that He made man, and that He was grieved in His heart. This "seems" to indicate that God didn't know this was going to happen when He created man, or that this was an unexpected result of that creation. So the question is, how can we reconcile this verse with the concept of the All powerful omniscient God? Genesis 6:5-6 "And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it Repented the Lord that He made man on the earth, and it grieved Him at His heart." The fact is, God knows the end from the Beginning. It is most evident that this is why He can Prophesy and tell us of things which are to occur in the future. And so there is no question but that God knows all ahead of time. We need to first understand that the Bible was "not" written for God it's written "for men", and therefore it's written from the perspective of men's understanding. We should even discern that from the fact that God says there that it grieved Him at His heart that He had made man. God is not a man that he should have a heart pumping blood through flesh, but this is the way mankind speaks to illustrate things were not going as we desired. So God uses this language so that the prophets (and indeed us today) would understand. God's ways are so far above our ways that if it was written from God's vantage point, we would be thoroughly confused and have little understanding, for we now see in a glass darkly (1st Corinthians 13:12). In the Genesis 6 example, God is illustrating why He destroyed the world "from our vantage point" of sorrow and grief. The Sons of God were becoming unequally yoked with the daughters of men. In other words, the Children of God were going after unbelievers, and the result is that their children fell away from God to the ways of the reprobates. As a result of this unrighteous mingling of the righteous seed, the world grew continually more wicked until there was only wickedness (an example for us all). God is illustrating that His destroying them wasn't an act without reason, it was because of their continual wickedness and evil doings. From our perspective, they were grieving the Holy Spirit! It doesn't mean God didn't know it was going to happen, it means that God takes no joy in the judgment of the unrighteous, and He writes this from the perspective in which we will understand his actions. i.e., as if we had raise up a child who grew to hate god, so that we were sorry that we had raised him up. This is a perspective man understands. We often see these kinds of episodes in scripture. For example, when God called Adam in the Garden of Eden, and said, "where art thou?" That didn't mean God was searching for Adam and didn't know where he was, that was God writing from our perspective illustrating that Adam was attempting to hide from God. God knew perfectly well where he was! The idea that God said, "where art thou," doesn't abrogate the law that God knows all! It simply means He's writing for our benefit, not His own! The same thing when God said let Me go down to Sodom and see if the evil things were taking place there. God knew perfectly well what was taking place there, but these things are written for "our" benefit, not God's! Again, when there was an Ox pulling the Ark of the Covenant and the ox stumbled and a man put his hand forth to steady the cart. God struck him down dead on the spot! God doesn't "normally" judge sin on the spot, but this was done for "our" benefit, that we'll read and understand that obedience to God's Word is not subject situation ethics, or to private interpretation. i.e., it's not what that man thought under the circumstances that counted, it was what God had said not to do. And many more examples of God writing that men will understand what, why, and how things are done. God's magnificent Salvation program is through reading (hearing) and in the wisdom of understanding His Word! In short, the writing as if there were feelings of grief and sorrow for what is taking place is not incompatible with omniscience or omnipotence of God. It is important to realize that God is writing to us finite beings, that we'll understand His actions as an infinite being. Therefore it often seems to us to be at odds with the truth of His being all knowing and all seeing. Another good example of God's will and accompanying sorrow is the gift of Christ. God sends His Son to die, which is sorrowful (yet it is His will). And Christ knows what will happen though He goes along "as if" it might not happen, or might be thwarted by Pilate. These things must be, yet it appears from some scriptures as if it could have been prevented or not happen. This is because the scriptures are written for man, not for God. God knows what's happening, the point is to write so we will by careful study understand the whys', hows', and the what for's. In understanding this, we understand why God says things in the manner which He does. We are finite, God is infinite. He speaks to us on our level. i.e., kingdoms, Gold, beasts, lions, sheep, wolves, serpents, Doves, etc. These are things illustrating in our earthly language things which are of heaven. Things which we can't understand as yet, but which we will understand by and by. May the Lord who is gracious above all give us the wisdom and understanding to glean what we need from His Holy Word. Peace, Copyright 1998 Tony Warren For other studies free for the Receiving, Visit our web Site The Mountain Retreat! http://www.mountainretreatorg.net In Christ Steve Post Reply
View Profile History	1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean? Posted : 12 Dec, 2009 02:47 PM children, children, children, must we argue over silly things over and over.Are goal should be to save souls not fight over mans opinions.:peace: Friends kiss and make up.Show the love of jesus.I do not know Greek, so I am unable to understand the mans view as to why we use it.The original was all in hebrew.I do understand a few words there.Also, I understand the customs. The king James version was for English speaking people only. Other counties have there on translation.:dancingp: This is a fact. Luther started something by introducing grace, salvation in breaking away from the catholic church.Everyone moves us closer to god. God did not stop at Calvin or anyone else.No man has it right.Not the Greeks, not Luther, Not Calvin, Not me, Not you:ROFL: Ok Are job is to save souls for Jesus.It should be who will I witness too? My friends end this fight now and stick with the word of god only. The meaning of words do change so the bible is updated to the times.At one time gay meant being happy.Now gay means something else.See my point.:peace: Steve and Walter,I am wrong in my views as are you.Only god is right.I will not waste my time studing Greek.Calvin was just a man.He did make some errors,ok.Now lets all :prayingm::prayingf: Kiss and make up.:party: Party at Steves since he is a argueable character.:eat: He is buying Pizza for everybody.:nahnah::ROFL: Post Reply
DontHitThatMark View Profile History	1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean? Posted : 12 Dec, 2009 09:59 PM Well...when God comes again and you look back on all that He has done...I just think it would kinda be insulting to God's intelligence. "Wow God. You forced everything to happen. Real...complicated...". The magnitude of God's power and wisdom is so much more infinite. I believe He influenced the course of human history by reasoning through the infinite complexities of human free will. Every millisecond was under His watch. Every fork in our road of innumerable choices. Everything was planned...but without removing our will. Can you understand how much more complicated that is? It is not simple. I guess I just think God is smarter then you do:goofball:. :peace::peace: Post Reply
View Profile History	1 Peter1 What does "Elect" and "Foreknowledge" really mean? Posted : 13 Dec, 2009 04:28 AM There is none righteous, not even one; There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God... There is none who does good, There is not even one. (Rom 3:10-12) In christ steve Post Reply

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