Goddmornin all....Are Amens and Apoligies needed for expressing Feelings, Insights and Word ? The book I refered to was authored by (Kenneth) E. Hagin. It covers in great detail "The Gifts of the Holy Spirit" and focuses on Biblical Scripture. Of which much was quoted through out this tread. I "felt" no need to RE-Quote, for the Truth is present in the Word. When I read these posts I read the Quotes/Verses given to verify the Word and if it is from God. Many here are Spot on "Hiting the Mark" and it helps all of us to grow in Christ. Thank God and Thank you Lady's and Gents for your Spirit shines through the darkness espically in these times. I have noticed that sometimes people will pick and choose a verse that says what they are refering to, to back up their point. This can be dangerous because it can be taken out of context of the written Word and be interpeded incorrectly for ones own self justification and personal belief. I am not here to debate upon the Word. I am here to fellowship and share as a Christain women with men and women of the body of Christ and if God wills it find a Mate along the way...May God continue to Bless you all abundantly...
In dealing with the Spiritual Gifts in the New Testament it is interesting to note that after the initial occurrence at Pentecost in the upper room when the Holy Spirit descended upon all the disciples that were there, there was only one other exception when the Holy Spirit gave gifts prior to the laying on of hands by the Apostles. The incident was dealing with Peter who was not with the program so to speak so the Holy Spirit had to get him moving. haha. Other than that no one after ever received any of the spiritual gifts unless the Apostles personally laid their hands on that person or the Apostles were at least present. It is also interesting to note that only the Apostles had the power to lay hands and impart spiritual gifts. Whoever received the spiritual gifts never had the power to impart those gifts to someone else. The person receiving gifts had the power of using the gifts but not to pass on the gifts themselves.
Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.
13 Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done.
Notice that Phillip was utilizing the power of the gifts he had but also notice that the Apostles had to come and lay hands in order for other people to receive the gifts themselves.
14 Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them,
15 who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.
16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
What is often misunderstood by Charismatics is that when the scriptures talk about the Holy Spirit "falling down" on someone or them it is not talking about "Salvation" as everyone who places their faith in Christ, repents and is Baptized automatically receives the Holy Spirit Himself. When scripture speaks of the Holy Spirit falling upon someone it is speaking about the impartation of the gifts.
17 Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. (talking about gifts)
18 And when Simon SAW THAT THROUGH THE LAYING ON OF THE APOSTLE'S HANDS the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money,
19 saying, "Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit." NKJV
What did Simon observe?
That the Apostles had a special power no one else had and that power was the ability to lay hands on people and impart the gifts of the Holy Spirit. In other terms, the Holy Spirit only imparted the gifts through the Apostles of Christ by their laying on of their hands. This is the normal method in which the Holy Spirit operated. There was one other instance where people received the gifts without the laying on of hands by the Apostles BUT the Apostles were still present when this occurred. It is also important to note that the Apostles did not have the power to transfer their powers so others could lay hands and so forth. There is a distinct difference between laying hands on someone and they are immediately healed as opposed to praying for someone and GOD heals them like He does today.
Let's look at Romans and take notice of something that also supports the other scriptures.
In Rome a church had been formed but no Apostles had yet visited it and established it.
Rom 1:10 making request if, by some means, now at last I may find a way in the will of God to come to you.
11 For I long to see you, that I may impart to you some spiritual gift, so that you may be established�
12 that is, that I may be encouraged together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me. NKJV
Here we see that the Roman Christians who were "saved" had not as yet received any supernatural "gifts". So it demonstrates that receiving gifts was not something the Holy Spirit did automatically upon salvation. The one exception with the Roman church is that someone had the gift of "Prophesy". We know that someone who started the Roman church had to have heard the preaching of the Gospel from an Apostle, most likely in Jerusalem and had hands laid upon them which is how they would have received that gift. They obviously traveled back to Rome and that church began. As a side note, this church in Rome is the same church that later developed into the Roman Catholic Church 300 years later, only by that time they had drifted away from the true Gospel.
What had to happen?
An Apostle had to be physically present to impart the gifts through the "laying on of hands".
Here is another passage dealing with the special powers given exclusively to the Apostles.
Mar 16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
17 And these signs will follow those who believe:[my note: The Grammar of the Greek clearly means those who were presently believing at that time, not in any future tense of sense] In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; [ these people are those who were believers AT THAT TIME]
18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover." [ these are those AT THAT TIME who were believers. It does not apply for us today]
19 So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God.
20 And they [the Apostles]went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them [ the Apostles] and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen. NKJV
I want to point out a few things here. First when the scripture here referes to "these signs will follow those that believe" and they will take up serpents, etc.,...this is talking about those who received the word of God FROM the Apostles and had hands laid upon them. That as we have seen above is the normal method that a person received a spiritual gift. This is the proper interpretation of this passage. The Greek grammar does not allow for any other interpretation.
Now what is the "application" of this so far? Can we apply this for Christians today? I don't believe so because if that were true then Christians claiming to have received supernatural gifts would have these exact same powers as those above. They/ WE would be able to handle serpents and not be harmed... and also we could drink poisons and not be harmed. So I do not see any Biblical evidence to support the gifts being for today.
Good point Cattleman~love is a gift and fruit that will never be done away with, even in heaven.
I was baptized in the Holy Spirit, by laying on of hands of other believers baptized in the Holy Spirit, the same Friday night in 1971 that I was found by Jesus. It was real, it is a promise to us and and I received that gift by Faith in Him.
"For the promise [of the gift of the Holy Spirit] is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him" Acts 2:39
The laying on of hands was not an uncommon practice for the Jews for various things but it is not the ONLY way to receive this gift:
If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!" Luke 11:1-13.24
Peter preaches the word to the Gentiles at Caesarea that "every one who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name," and at that very moment the Spirit "fell on all who heard the word" Acts:10:43-44.
One does Not need to be an apostle to lay hands on a believer who needs prayer for this or anything else but must have a devoted life to Christ and have the gift themselves:
Ananias is no apostle: he is simply described as "a disciple at Damascus" Acts:9:10. Ananias comes to Paul, "And laying his hands on him he said, 'Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came, has sent me that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit'" 9:17. ~
Thus were hands laid not by an apostle but by a Christian brother. The important matter is not that Ananias was executing an apostolic office but that he was fulfilling a specific command of the Lord Jesus. Ananias is later described by Paul as "a devout man according to the law, well spoken of by all the Jews who lived there [in Damascus]" Acts 22:12~
Note he was a man of strong faith and perhaps peculiarly prepared through his devotion to the law to minister to Saul the Pharisee. It may be suggested that a combination of factors, the most fundamental being his devoutness~10~ made him suited to exercise the role of ministering to Paul's need. Hence, to repeat, the basic qualification for the imposition of hands was not that of apostolic office or function.
This promise is for ALL of us and I find the ones, I have talked to, who deny the gifts for today have NEVER asked for it. I challenge all of you who deny it is for today~~to ask for it if you are dedicated to Jesus and a person of prayer.
Why would God not want this gift to operate in the last days which are foretold to be very wicked and evil? The purpose of the baptism is to endow us with the gifts and to help us be strong witnesses:
Acts 1~you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the end of the earth
While these gifts come from Christ, they are quite different from each other. The first-forgiveness of sins-has to do with conversion, a radical turning to Christ from sin; the second-baptism in the Holy Spirit-relates to immersion in the reality of God's presence and the ensuing power for witness and ministry. The former has to do with becoming a Christian, the latter with Christian ministry. Together the two make up the fullness of Christian discipleship.
Where in this scripture does it indicate APOSTLES only?
Joel2:28~And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
Was this directed to the apostles only?
James 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick , and the Lord shall raise him up ; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. 16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed . The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
Granted~ America is full of unbelief which hinders the moving of the Holy Spirit and the WOF T.V. evangelists have made the gift of the Holy Spirit look like a circus but Jesus is still the same yesterday, today and forever.
Look at what is going on in third world countries~~~:applause:
All I know is that God is a good God! Not sometimes, all the time! and not all the time can I explain why He does things or why He doesnt do things, nor can anyone else. He is a supernatural being and in case you didnt know, His thoughts are not like our thoughts.
I believe that alot of christians put Him in a box, if he goes outside the box, we get scared because we cannot define what is happening so we keep him in a little box where all is safe and can be explained.
Some view Him to be like our earthly fathers and those of use who didnt have a good experience with our earthly father will perceive God in the wrong way. If we study more He will love me more, if I feed the homeless, if I pray for 2 hours He will be proud of me. The truth is, you cannot gain His love, he loves us unconditionally no matter what.
First of all, we have to watch out from being religious, unfortunately, the pharisees are in our churches. The pharisees studied and studied and prayed but when the truth was in front of their eyes, they didnt believe. They did not have a relationship with God, they knew of Him but didnt know Him. We have to be careful that we dont fall into that trap. We get judgmental and critical of others because they may be different. we always want to be right. who is to say who is right or wrong? I know that one day every knee will bow and every tongue confess that jesus christ is Lord. We will have to give an account of what we did with what we knew.
I know we have different beliefs and I dont care if you disagree and I know that you will think I'm strange and possibly even heretical but God doesnt change.
I KNOW that when I lay my hands on someone that they WILL be healed, no it doesnt happen every time but it DOES happen. I cannot explain when I am praying for someone i get a picture of their past in my mind. i share it with that person and it opens the door for inner healing. those are gifts of the spirit. Many other things happen to me that I cannot explain but who am I to question the creator of the universe, all I know is my experiences. God has been all over this subject lately, He wants this exposed more.
Just to say that I dont watch R rated movies, I do not date, I do not drink or smoke I do not mess around with astrology and I have been healed of a.r.d.s. and set free from my past, God has used me for years in the area of counseling, with success. Where the spirit of the Lord is there is freedom and I am blessed to experience that freedom on a daily basis.
I share all that just to let you know that I get my information from the Lord and God has used and is using mentors in my life. I am free from any bondage.
I also challenge anyone who reads this to ask God for the gifts and then see what happens. The right brainers will have visions the left brainers will have incredible insight and revelation to the Word of God. Even prophetic dreams. So I bless that in the name of Jesus and I ask the Holy Spirit to come!
I pray that when this happens, you will be brave enough to share what God has done for you ;)
I love everyone, God really wants us all to reach our potential in Him. Can you imagine if each one of us had faith that when we laid hands on someone to pray they would be healed, how many people would be changed forever.
I hope I didnt offend anyone to much. If I did, then I have to say "ask Him for the gifts" you will see what I'm talking about. I will not apologize for what I know to be truth.
I know some of you will pick this apart and criticize and pass judgment but God sees and hears all. You are still my brothers and sisters in the Lord.
Walter and Cattle, you both had great points. I have to say the most powerful prayers I have ever prayed have mostly been for others, and not always others that I particularly liked. But prayers out of genuine love and concern for another person are a very powerful thing because that is what God wants us to do. He wants us to stop looking at ourselves and be genuinely concerned about each other, even those that can really be a thorn in our side.
Once I was really having a difficult time on a new job with a person that was definitely a bitter thorny type person. I recall one day where she was to train me, and I doubt that her words to me added up to a dozen through the course of more than four hours and most of them would have been: "No!" "Don't" and "Just sit over there!" She would let me do nothing, nor would she let me watch her work.
Later her words to me were, "we got that last guy fired, and you're next!" I was scared of her. She was a very angry and bitter person.
I started praying for her because I thought that it must be hard to live life being her. I asked the Lord to bless her, to touch her life and make it better, for even though she seemed happy in her bitterness, I had my doubts that she could be.
I made an effort to pray like that for her daily. Almost immediately I was given an assignment away from her. Within a month she had made a decision to see someone and get on meds. Within three months, she had a boyfriend, and in less than six months, she found a new job and left.
I still work there. Prayer does change things. Self focused prayer has always taken me a lot longer, even if it is for good and for His Glory. I prayed for close to ten years before I was delivered from cigarettes, but when it happened it was easy, and that very day there was a gas leak at my house.
But back on track I think when you pray with genuine love for others, you really do start to see things happen. I think that is among the simplest, but finest gifts of the Spirit, and I think we all have the ability to really use it and mean it for the Glory of God, for God can do all things, and when we ask Him to bless others, He will, and it is a wonderful thing.
I just wanted to say that it is written that until you become like a child in your faith, you will not truly understand. Perhaps this is why you are still waiting to see miracles, while we feel His love. The Pharisees were great at quoting the law and what was written, line by line, verse by verse, but they lacked the purity of heart.
Discredit not those that walk in a path of love toward God, for throughout the ages many have walked that path being completely illiterate and only able to quote what they heard or remembered.
I do not see a lot of things being said here that contradict the Bible. Yes, it is important to read scripture, but many relate better to how scripture applies in their lives than they do to words on a page that they might not be able to grasp all that well. That is why we have Pastors to help people connect scripture to their lives.
I try not to discount the feelings of my Christian Brothers and Sisters for the Lord does speak to our hearts if we are willing to listen for direction through the Holy Spirit.
So please stop bashing those that have child like faith that are not as scholastic in the Word as you might be, for they are no less precious to the Lord, and their love for Him and feelings about Him are no less valuable than someone that might have a photographic memory for the Word. If someone states something that is in direct contradiction to the Word, by all means defend the Word, absolutely, for no one should believe anything the Word states in direct opposition. Obedience in the Word is important.
But the Greatest Feeling we have inside us, Given by God, is Love, and with it we are to Love one another more, not as much, but more the Bible states, than ourselves. It is in His love that He speaks to us and Guides us. It is in being fed in the Word that we come to know our Masters voice in our hearts, which is why we hunger for the word.
So be kind to your brothers and sisters in Christ Tom, for their child like love and simplicity is precious in His Sight.
will repeat it again if God was still having the gift of haling done now, we would have no need of hospitlas.
my response here
if youll remember ,not everyone in the world was healed even back then..
as river says, its ok to desire spiritual gifts.. as it is written.
1 corinthians 14:1 pursue love ,and desire spiritual gifts,but especially that you may prophesy.
as we can see here paul is explaining to us that not all peoples will have the same gifts..
1 corinthians 12:29-30 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?
and there are many more gifts mentioned earlier in chapter 12 but each person recieves a gift or gifts as the HOLY SPIRIT individually wills.
1 corinthians 12:11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.
we need to remember its never about the person with the gift but yet its always the HOLY SPIRIT working as man cannot do anything witout HIM..
from my study bible...below
Spiritual gifts are bestowed, that men may with them profit the church and promote Christianity. They are not given for show, but for service; not for pomp and ostentation, but for edification; not to magnify those that have them, but to edify others.
VI. The measure and proportion in which they are given: All these worketh one and the same Spirit, dividing to every man as he will. It is according to the sovereign pleasure of the donor. What more free than a gift? And shall not the Spirit of God do what he will with his own? May he not give to what persons he pleases, and in what proportion he pleases; one gift to one man, and another to another; to one more, and another fewer, as he thinks fit? Is he not the best judge how his own purpose shall be served, and his own donatives bestowed? It is not as men will, nor as they may think fit, but as the Spirit pleases. Note, The Holy Ghost is a divine person. He works divine effects and divides divine gifts a he will, by his own power, and according to his own pleasure, without dependence or control. But though he distributes these gifts freely and uncontrollably, they are intended by him, not for private honour and advantage, but for public benefit, for the edification of the body, the church.
Thank you River~Jennifer for the topic of Biblical~Spiritual Gifts...Yup ! We don't always know why, nor do we need to...So lets all pray an lay those hands on and Praise GOD ! For the mucho Good mana for the Spirit received from all... :applause:...xo
Hmm, where does it say that Jesus stopped giving His 5 fold ministry gifts, EPH 4:11-14.
"11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,
12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;"
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I could be wrong, but I don't think we are perfect yet.
