The best, most direct, simple answer to the question above is: �In order to demonstrate His power, and in order that His name might be proclaimed throughout the entire earth.�
The reason that is the best, most direct, simple answer to the question is because it is God's own answer. See Exodus 9:16 and Romans 9:17.
God raised up Pharaoh and hardened Pharaoh's heart in order to promote His own glory.
�But,� you may say, �that doesn�t sound right to me. It just doesn't seem to me that God would arrange for a person to actually sin and rebel just to make Himself great.�
At which point I would ask, �How do you propose that we determine the truth about what motivates the heart of God? Will we base our conclusions on our own feelings about what seems right? Or will we base our conclusions on what God Himself says in the Bible to be true about what motivates Him?�
Many wise and reputable commentators propose that when the Bible says that God hardened Pharaoh's heart, what it really means is that God simply facilitated a process that Pharaoh himself initiated. After all, the Bible repeatedly also states that Pharaoh hardened his own heart, i.e. Exodus 8:15 and 32.
Dr. Norman Geisler, for instance, a scholar whose work we regard highly and frequently cite in this publication, holds that God did not directly harden Pharaoh's heart (or anyone else's heart for that matter) contrary to their own free choice, but only indirectly, through their own choice. In their excellent book When Critics Ask (�1992 Victor Books), Geisler and Howe say,
�God in His omniscience foreknew exactly how Pharaoh would respond, and He used it to accomplish His purposes. God ordained the means of Pharaoh's free but stubborn action��
And that's the position of many other respected commentators. But not all. There are those who believe that the simplest and most accurate reading of Exodus chapters 4-9, and the corresponding text in Romans 9:17ff, rather indicates that it was God Himself and none other who was the primary, initiating, direct, and driving force behind Pharaoh's choice to harden his heart.
Romans 9 is perhaps the most difficult chapter in the Bible to read, accurately understand, and fully accept, because what Romans 9 teaches flies in the face of our human inclination to be independent, self-determining, and proud. Romans 9 indicates that it is God, not us�not me�who is in control. In fact, it shows that God is in such total control that He can and does sovereignly elect to show mercy to some people while hardening the hearts of others. And it shows that He is just in doing so. And it shows that I am in no position to challenge Him on the matter (Romans 9:20-21). And it shows that I am also still fully responsible for all of my actions and accountable for all of my choices.
Am I then saying that God Himself actually arranged for Pharaoh to sin?
Job was attacked by Satan.Yes, in much the same sense that He arranged for Joseph's brothers to sell Joseph into slavery (Genesis 50:20), Satan to attack Job (Job 1:12), Jews and and Romans to crucify Jesus (Acts 2:23), and sin to exist in the first place.
Well, if that's true, how can we explain what seems like a contradiction�that God wills sin which is, by definition, against His will.
Theologians have often handled this paradox by concluding that there are two wills in God, sometimes referred to as God's sovereign will and His revealed (perceptive) will, or His will of command and His will of decree. And also by understanding that in God's view and plan, it is good that there is evil in this world. Note�that is not to say that evil is itself good; only that evil serves a worthy end and is therefore an important and integral part of God's good purposes.
But isn't God compassionate toward all men�even sinners? And if so, how could He harden Pharaoh's heart while simultaneously loving him and feeling compassion for him?
Dr. John Piper addresses this as follows:
�There is a genuine inclination in God's heart to spare those who have committed treason against his kingdom. But his motivation is complex, and not every true element in it rises to the level of effective choice. In his great and mysterious heart there are kinds of longings and desires that are real� Yet not all of these longings govern God's actions. He is governed by the depth of his wisdom expressed through a plan that no ordinary human deliberation would ever conceive (Romans 11:33-36; 1 Corinthians 2:9). There are holy and just reasons for why the affections of God's heart have the nature and intensity and proportion that they do.�
(1) For us in His foreknowledge: "Whom He did foreknow." "Foreknow" means more than a knowledge about us, for He knew about the devil and about all people. It is equal to foreordain, or chosen, or elected. It means that He foreknew with a purpose; foreknew effectually. I Peter 1:2 says, "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God." "According" means "measured by" or "in harmony with", or "in accord with." His choice of us was according to or measured by or equal to His foreknowledge of us. God knew what He would do for us and He knew what He would do with us. He is for us in foreknowledge. Before we were ever born or did good or evil God was for us in His purposes of Grace.
(2) For us in predestination. God predetermined the destiny and character of everyone of us in eternity past--determined and decreed our destiny. Not merely, decreed our going to heaven, but He also decreed our "conformity to the image of Christ." "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (I John 3:2).
2. God is for us in Time Present.
(1) In Effectual Calling. "Whom He also called" "called according to His purpose" called just as He purposed in eternity past, and called to accomplish His purpose in eternity future. Sinners are not called by chance nor by good luck but according to the purpose of God. There is a vast difference between a call and an invitation. Preachers give invitation to sinners but God calls sinners from death unto life. There is a general call in the Gospel to every man but there is a particular and effectual call of God to the "Foreknown" and "predestinated"-- "Them He also called."
He calls by the Holy Spirit and the word. He calls to life (regeneration) by the spirit and to justification by the Word. The one is vital, the other is legal and they both take place in the experiences of the sinner when he is saved.
(2) In Justification. "Them he also justified." Justified means declared just or acquitted before His law. "Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth." When God justifies or declares just His elect no charge shall ever be sustained against them. They may be accused by Satan and maligned by men, but heaven's declaration shall never be reversed and they shall never be brought into jeopardy for their sins again. "Being justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Romans 5:1).
(3) For us in Providence. "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose" (Romans 8:28). God is for us through all the experiences of this life. In sickness and health, at home and abroad, in prosperity and adversity, on the land and on the sea. His providence is working all things together for our good--nothing can be against us ultimately. At present the clouds may be dark, or the burden heavy, or the road dreary, but it is all in His plan and purpose working for our good. Who can be against us? "The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord . . . though he fall he shall not be utterly cast down: for the Lord upholdeth him with his hand" (Psalms 37:23, 24). In all these things we are more than conquerors.
3. God is for us in Eternity Future.
(1) In Glorification. "Them he also glorified." Glorification is in the future. Then we shall be like Him. Then our vile body shall be fashioned like unto His own glorious body. Glorification is the consummation of all the previous purpose and work of Grace. All the threads of foreknowledge, predestination, calling, justification, sanctification, and providence shall find their place in the divine pattern and be unfolded in the image of Jesus Christ. We shall be like Him, and God the Father shall look upon us as the ultimate product of His eternal redemption.
4. God is for us in one Eternal Present.
All of this is spoken in the past tense as if it had already taken place. God's purposes are so certain of fulfillment that He expresses them as already accomplished. There can be no shadow of doubt as to our security since God Who cannot lie has already declared the end from the beginning.
Dr. A. C. Dixon says that this passage portrays God's plan of Eternal Salvation as a great suspension bridge which spans a deep river chasm. The large cables are anchored in the mountain bed rocks on either side and are stretched over the top of great pillars and swung above the river. Large and strong arms of steel hang from these cables and support the bridge structure as constant streams of traffic go across. Foreknowledge and Predestination take their anchor back in the Eternal Counsels of the Triune God before time was--Glorification anchors the cables of Divine Grace in the Eternity yet future-while Calling and Justification take hold of the elect in actual experience here in time as we are carried safely over the turbulent currents of life. God is for us all the way.
III. THE PRACTICAL EFFECT OF THIS DOCTRINE IN OUR LIVES
1. Gives Us a Sense of Security. "Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?" We are no more doubting and fearing saints but shouting and confident people--at rest upon His power and promises.
2. Produces Loyalty and Faithfulness. "For thy sake we are killed all the day long." Persecution, distress, famine, nakedness, peril or sword do not drive us from our Lord but bring us close to Him. All that Satan may do against us brings us closer to our God--we die rather than be unfaithful to Him.
3. Produces Conquerors. "In all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us." This doctrine has been opposed upon the ground that it produces carelessness, indulgence, and laziness on the part of those who believe it. This is Satan's slander of the saints. No doctrine has ever produced as many martyrs as has this glorious doctrine. Call the roll of martyrs and few Arminians are in the number. Paul, the writer of our text, sealed his testimony with his blood.
4. The Greatest Anchor for the Soul. The greatest source of peace for the mind and the most glorious ground for shouting that my heart has ever experienced is the text: "What shall we say then to these things? If God be for us who can be against us?" Amen and amen!
dear man, ya see heres a big difference tween you and myself.. ive learnt that most folks do like to be fed.. but they prefer a spoon.. and not to be forcefed.. and that they dont need to get full up each feeding.. always leave folks a little hungry for more...
and thats what youre doin whether you realize it or not here..is forcefeedin..
it seems that you answer your own posts after post after post with 3 and 4 long long cut and paste pages it seems as if tryin to force what you believe on others..and thus flooding the forums.. and burying anyone elses posts that disagree...
look either you or the armanians one of us are wrong.. but it really doesnt matter in the grand scheme of things called salvation.. because either way we both got our SAVIOR and salvation..
so if youre gonna teach what you percieve to be the truth wouldnt you wanna spoon feed folks a little and not force feed em alot and bury them,, so they wont tune you out?
"[God] has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity, [...] "
"4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions � it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith � and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God � 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."
I agree with Cattle about forcefeeding. I get that impression when I see your posts. Then, when someone comes back with a different viewpoint, you don't always address it. Sometimes, like he said, you just bury it with 5 more posts. Like I have said before, I don't know much about Calvinist and Arminian views. Frankly, I just don't care. I read the Bible and God speaks to me directly. I don't bother siding with a particular theological view. Plus... and I'm not trying to be rude here... if you believe that God has chosen select people for salvation and hardened others' hearts so that they aren't saved... why do you bother trying to persuade any of us that YOUR views trump OURS? It's not going to matter in the end (IF you're right). Did it ever occur to you that maybe God is encouraging you to stay in the forums to SHOW you something? It may be hard to admit this... NOBODY likes to be wrong. Unfortunately, though, it happens. Even to me! I have learned a little, actually, just from reading through the forums. Different views that challenge what you have always been told or what others tell you. Just a little food for thought...
dear folks, i do believe that man here has a good heart for others.. and he believes that he is helpin others here.. and i believe that he believes what hes sayin and not just tryin to stir the pot so to speak... and i agree with alot of what he says.. we have minor differences on a few things is all.. i believe hes a good feller and he means well.
man i do admire you for that. and i do respect you.
and jf, even though we know that GOD could do anything HE wanted.. and that HE did choose certain folks to help fulfill HIS will and show HIS glory... i dont believe that salvation was just meant for a few chosen ones... i believe JESUS died for all men to have the chance of salvation..
cause like you say we dont need to keep preachin to the lost if the chosen few are gonna become saved no matter what and the ones that are meant to not be are gonna not accept it no matter what.. then there would be no need to preach to em at all. the preachers could stay home on sundays or saturdays, the people could just stay home on sundays or saturdays , and no need to go out witnessing to folks cause theyre gonna be saved whether you do or dont..
1 timothy 1:15-16 15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. 16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.
1 timothy 2:3-6 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,
john 3:16-17 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
In the end when we are judged at the Bema seat judgment?~It is my understanding that our awards will be based on motive more than our works~every work shall be tried and burned~wood~hay~stubble will be burned. Only the good works with a pure motive will stand and Christ will reward those works.
What I see here is something that we all have probably done and that is try to get others to "swallow" our belief and we all know what happens when someone tries to make you swallow something you just don't want to?~~You choke, right~~
Cattleman has a good point~none of us are going to agree on everything here and our motive should be to bring HEALING to every conversation. If we debate, which is fine to a point~ and end up disagreeing then bring HEALING and PEACE by agreeing to disagree.
This is a secondary issue and I don't think it will send you to hell if you believe either way on this~personally~I think LOVE ALWAYS gives you a CHOICE. Choose this day whom you will serve. :applause:
For all of us~~Search your MOTIVES~is there FEAR involved in your pushing something? Perfect LOVE casts out fear.
Maybe we would all do well to contemplate this thought....
What if Mary Magdalene showed up on the forums?
She was definitely a dear and sweet friend of our Lord's, but frankly today, she might realistically have a couple divorces in her history and maybe a child or two or more out of wedlock, and frankly, she did not quote scripture (or law) very well at all. She didn't have a whole lot and was not all that well educated.
Come to think of it, she simply LOVED the Lord Jesus Christ and WANTED to be with Him.
She might just say something simple like, " I think the Lord would just like us to be Kind to one another and take care of each other."
How many people might think something like, "With a track record like yours, we can about imagine how you would take care of the one your lookin' to meet!"
The Apostles were not exactly the kind of men you would have wanted to take home to Mama either. Thieves, liars, tax collectors (aka paid thugs), and even betrayers (Judas, think Jesus didn't forgive him? Sure He did).
These were His friends. Come to think of it, He wasn't all that fond of the guys in robes quoting scripture (law).
I am not saying by any means that we shouldn't learn scripture and educate ourselves in the Word, for we should, its important, but I think sometimes we need to remember who His friends were, the one's He held dear and walked with. The ones He LIKED to be around.
Why do we push to be at the front of the line? Do we not know that the first shall be last? I think we are all guilty of forgetting this on a regular basis on some level or another.
If the Lord Himself showed up on the forum, I wonder how many times He would get told He is wrong. Hmmm, wonder how many times I might tell Him he's wrong (and we know I'm always right, lol, kidding---I think, I hope:excited:)
I like to think as Christians, not one among us is right, not really, but none of us is really all that wrong either. Think we are all so close. But I also think the minute we get to thinking we are so on the mark in the word and those around us are so lost without a clue, we are the ones that don't get it.
I really believe the Lord puts people in our paths because we not only have something to learn from them, but because they have something to learn from us too. God is like that. He weaves the most complicated patterns into such simple things, and we have but to look for them, for He is the Designer and His Creation is all around us and He whispers direction constantly through the Holy Spirit to both the saved and unsaved.
I think it is humbling when you come to realize that the people you really don't like much at all, in fact you might even find them rude, intrusive and totally annoying, but God LOVES them. I mean, HE LOVES THEM A LOT! More in fact than you love your own kids, or your parents, or that person that can make your heart skip a beat.
That's a lot.
Try to look at the people you don't appreciate so much as if God were looking at them and seeing the things He LOVES about them. For it is written that we are to love our enemies. Not all that easy. And if we are to love our enemies, then what of those that we just don't care for all that much?
Would be nice if we could just all put on the "God Glasses" from time to time, and try to look for the things God appreciates in those that love Him.
I know I love the way everyone that has posted on this thread, truly LOVES the Lord and Chases His Heart, each in their own way. With common ground like that, I would like to add kindness and patience to that list of things we could all appreciate in each other.
I would hope each person in their own way would take that to heart and remember it this week, and maybe next week and the week after too. I hope I can remember to practice this as well, for I truly would be red faced if I got to Heaven and discovered someone I was harsh with was really our Lord, or one of His Chosen. I would hope in Heaven, we will all recognize each other and be glad to see one another.
So lets be not harsh with each other, for the Lord was not harsh with any of those that loved Him, not even Judas, and truly none of us resemble him, and hopefully never will.
I am like Garrett, I have no idea what Armenian is, I just Love God in all His Triune forms.
Tarasye WROTE: "I am like Garrett, I have no idea what Armenian is, I just Love God in all His Triune forms."
An Armenian would be someone from the country Armenia (near Turkey, Iran and Georgia). An *Arminian* is someone who's views are like those of Jacobus (or James) Arminius (1560-1609). Arminius had certain objections to the teachings of John Calvin (1509-1564); especially w/r/t predestination, election, and free will. Arminius taught we have free will to choose salvation. John Calvin believed in Unconditional Election, where God chooses who will be saved (and who won't). After Arminius' death, his followers, who were called "Remonstrants", met with "Calvinists" (followers of John Calvin) and presented their differences. Ever since then, Christian denominations have disagreed on these topics. Arminian denominations include Methodists, Nazarenes, Pentecostals, others. Calvinist denominations include Reformed Churches (such as manofgod's, and others, like Dutch Reformed), and Presbyterians. My own beliefs on these things are close to Greek Orthodox, which is essentially compatible with Arminian (though there were no 'Calvinists v. Arminians' in the Eastern or Greek Orthodox Church). These 'debates' are Western (European) phenomena. Just for fyi....
To the topic: I don't believe God hardens anyone's heart who hasn't been resistant. God gave Pharaoh many opportunities to change. The more Pharaoh hardened himself against God; God simply allowed it, and went along with Pharaoh's choice. In colloquial terms this would be something like, "You resist me, no matter what I do, or how many chances I give you. If you want to harden your heart against me, there's nothing I can do about that. Do what you will, and received your due reward." Thanks!
