Dear Reader, Ephesians 4:5 �One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Many denominations teach two baptisms, water and spirit. Some denominations teach that water and spirit are two parts of one baptism. Is any of the above in your view correct? Or could there be another answer that would be agreement with all of God's word?
One baptism. in the name of the Father, the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 28:1
"19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"
Christian are baptized with the Spirit once they heard and believe in the Gospel.
In the above statements you were not clear on what baptism you are referring to. If you are referring to Spiritual baptism then you are correct.
You next statement: So if you have heard the gospel, you will try to have water baptism ASAP. Although, having one does not save you or missing one does not lead you to hell (unless you deliberately miss it).
This is my reply Daniel so the reader will know who is talking. {Tomlane now}
No where in scripture can you prove that statement, that one will try to have water baptism ASAP. Although, having one does not save you or missing one does not lead you to hell. Your statement made no sense that I can see. Plus that makes salvation conditional on what you decide to do after you believe. That makes your program one of works and is not biblical in the least.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Your statement is completely contrary to being saved by faith. Please notice baptism is not even mentioned.
Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Again water baptism soon ASP is not mentioned. Your doctrine doesn't hold up to examination when you compare it to God's word.
Daniel, you stated, �One baptism. in the name of the Father, the Son and of the Holy Spirit.�
You are correct there and there is only one baptism but you contradicted yourself for you are discussing two baptisms. Water and Spirit.
Then you stated: �Matthew 28:1"19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"
Christian are baptized with the Spirit once they heard and believe in the Gospel.
Ephesians 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,"
If you believe all the above is spiritual baptism then you are correct but I have a feeling you are referring to water. It would help if you were more concise, thanks.
Then you stated: �Water baptism is only a symbol what is happening inside.
1 Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also�not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge[e] of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,"
Daniel, have you ever read 1Peter 3:21 or did you pull it out of the air? I'll show what that verse says.
Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
So since that verse doesn't support your doctrine lets see what is tied in with the rest of 1Peter 3:21.
Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
All of the above is summed up in verse 28.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Not to make a pun but your doctrine is all wet and is not supported by scripture.
Your next statement after the thief on the cross and since we are in agreement on that one I'm not going to waste time agreeing with you.
You then stated: �Is water baptism relevant? Yes. Because John 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command." And one of the command is to get water baptized�
Lets examine that scripture and see what it's saying.
I also backed up a verse to show you what is being said before and after John 14:15 so we can come to the correct conclusions.
John 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Realistically we know the Lord does not give us whatever we ask for so lets find some scripture that will shed light on verse 14.
John 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
James 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
Verse John 14:14 sure seems in conflict with James 4:3 doesn't it Daniel?
The reason being Christ was offering His kingdom to Israel and the church was had not been revealed then things changed drastically. God's physical program with Israel was set aside and now God is dealing with both Jew and Gentile as a new creation in Christ and of a spiritual nature.
The problem lies you and others combing the two dispensations and trying to make them into one. Another study for another time. So now lets look at John 14:15 that you gave.
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Please notice John 14:15 hasn't a thing to do with water baptism and never will. Christ is referring to the coming of the Holy Spirit. Mmmm, another spiritual matter we have don't we Daniel?
I still don't see how John 14:15 is relevant to proofing water baptism. Could you elaborate on it, thanks?
You then stated, �And one of the command is to get water baptized� Where to you find that commandment? I have never found that in my bible. If you are referring to the Matthew 28, perhaps we should take a look at it.
Matthew 28:18-20 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Lets round out this command with Mark so we can get the full picture and keep a proper perspective.
Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Verse 15 says, �Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.� This command was given to the Apostles and was never given to the church. Israel's dealings from God were mostly of a physical nature with the exception of salvation. The law was still in effect when this commandment was given to just the disciples. Plus, this commandment was completed according to Paul in Colossians 1:23.
Colossians 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; That certainly completes Mar 16:15. More proof that this command was completed. In this day and age, no one has the signs that followed the apostles . Another proof this is not for today.
The only baptism that saves is spiritual. The way we obtain that is though believing only as stated in verse 16: 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
This verse is actually referring to two baptisms. One is spiritual, the other is of fire. Both baptisms are done by Christ. Proof: Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire: The same thing is also stated in Matthew 3:11.
Since Verse 16 referrers to two baptism that have to be of his doing and his alone. What sense would it make to believe then run out and get water baptized it Ephesians 4:5 says there is only one baptism?
Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Here is more proof we only have spiritual baptism today.
Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
The only way we can possibly be buried, and risen with Christ is from spiritual baptism from God.
Just as it says its an operation of god and not of man. Not once in the time Christ walked the earth did he ever water baptize anyone.
If water baptism had been what Paul did when he preached to every creature he would redoubtably baptized more then just a few people. Proof:
1 Corinthians 1:14-17 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17 �For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
Paul only baptized two people plus Stephanas and his household. I believe the reason Paul baptized as few as he did was because when Paul baptized they had not had been given the inspiration from Christ yet that there was only one baptism not two; because the book of Acts had two programs going at the same time. One was the phasing out of Judaism and establishing the church that is Christ's body.
That is why Christ had the temple torn down to show Israel who needs signs for Jews to believe anything had the temple done away with and do show all of us temple worship and all its ordinances had been nailed to the cross, Colossians 2:14-17 and the ordinances within the law were done away with as well.
Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
No law, no ordinances, no water baptism, no sabbath keeping, no Sunday snack, no tithing. No anything other just believing on Christ.
Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? {We can see and feel the wetness of water baptism}
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Titus 3:5 �Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Please notice not one of these verses mention water baptism. That is adding to God's word for this present time we are in. Our washing of regeneration and renewing can only be done spiritually by the Holy Spirit just as it says. Nothing more. Water is not symbolic of spiritual baptism. The only water baptism in the Mathew through to John onto Acts is a water baptism of repentance only and was never connected to salvation, not once. John's water was to prepare for the coming of Israel's promised Messiah and those that believed John's message were ceremoniously water baptized to show publicly their faith and belief for their king and to turn away from their sins.
I hope that will help you Daniel to better understand water baptism. Believes do not do things symbolically because all of symbolism was a shadow of Christ, now have Christ and not need of shadows for with the brightness of the Son he did away with Shadows.
