I was reading another forum post and it got me a little stirred up. Just wanted to throw something in here....the pharisees didn't just have the ten commandments....they had their own "pharisee" law that they were making up as they went(I think those were the laws Jesus was talking about...straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel), they had the laws of Moses...the one kept beside the ark of the covenant, on the outside...and written on a scroll(doesn't sound permanent does it? Deut. 31:23-29, and Col 2:14). The old testament Jewish nation had a direct covenant with God. God lived with them. They made some pretty strict laws because God cannot tolerate sin in His presence. They had a sacrificial system(and they kinda forgot this part), that pointed to the messiah and his work. When Jesus came and died, they didn't need to have all the sacrificial system stuff anymore right? Type had met anti-type.
However, God's ten commandment law was inside the golden ark, written on stone(sounds precious and permanent). It wasn't for the Jews only. You could see it at the beginning...in the Garden of Eden. He created the 7th day "sabbath" before He wrote the ten commandments down(if you read Gen. 2:1-4 and Exodus 20:11, they're almost the same...) . Cain was an outcast because he committed murder. This was before Jewish people existed. Back when they were just...human. I believe the Ten Commandment law is God's character, interpreted in a way that we could understand it in human terms...and so we could know what sin is, and try to avoid it(Rom. 7:7, Rom. 3:20.)
Anyway...long story short...I believe that the "laws and ordinances nailed to the cross"(Col. 2:14, Eph. 2:15) were the "Laws of Moses" that WERE only for the Jews(look at how much Paul preaches against forcing "circumcision", and "not eating food offered to idols", and so on...those are in the mosaic law, not the ten commandments), and the laws concerning the sacrificial system, Jewish holy days, and the prophets that pointed to Jesus, which He fulfilled(Matt. 5:17-19). I don't think it was the Ten Commandments. Later on in Matthew 5(verse 20 and on) he talks about several of the commandments and He says "Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment" and "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." Now I don't know about you...but keeping the spirit of the law sounds harder then just keeping it! And...I don't think it's possible for anyone to keep it perfectly. If it was, Jesus wouldn't have had to die. But I do think we're supposed to try. I don't think the ten commandments are any less important then God's own character...and I don't think they are any less invincible...it's just what I believe...don't take my word for it, look it up. You might even read 3 verses before and after the texts I gave to make sure it's in context. And then let's have a discussion!:yay:
:peace::peace:
Here's a few more random ones I found.
1 JOHN 5:3
JAM. 2:10-12
PSALMS 19:7
LUKE 16:17
...and part of the reason I'm bringing this up is because I find these conversations strange...help me out.
Me: Do you think we should pray to the sun?
Answer: What? No! Are you a freak?
Me: Do you think we should make or worship Idols?
Answer: No!
Me: Do you think we should take the name of God in vain?
Answer: No way!
Me: Do you think we should honor our father and mother?
Answer: Yes! As long as what they ask doesn't go against God!
Me: Do you believe stealing is wrong?
Answer: Definitely!
Me: Murder bad?
Answer: Oh yeah! Very bad! Life is precious!
Me: Adultery?
Answer: It's not right to abuse your sacred marriage vows! It's just wrong!
Me: Bear false witness?
Answer: Horrible! Even gossip and white lies are bad!
Me: Thou shalt not covet??
Answer: It's Bad! Evil! Sin!
Me: Should we remember the seventh day to keep it holy?
Answer: *Insert your answer here*
(The answer I get the most is "No, we're not under the law, it was done away with at the cross. Now we keep Sunday, to honor the Lord's resurrection." Or, "Everyday is my sabbath".)
dear thaddeus,, i dont think you get what i been sayin..maybe its just a misunderstandin..
your words here
Beloved, no where in any of my post did I ever, I repeat, ever say that I don't believe that we should Keep the commands of the LORD.
mine here,
thank goodness. as thats what i been sayin..
your words here
I'm simply declaring a Covenant issue. It seems that you guys think that the Old Testatment means Live Right and the New Testament Means Live Wrong.
mine here,
nope i believe both the old testament and the new testament means and teaches us how to live right and the way GOD intends us to.
your words here
You seem to think that we need to go back to the Old testament in order to obey GOD.
mine here,
nope im sayin that youll find that alot of the old testament is carried over into the new..
im gettin the impression that you dont think i understand grace.. and that you seem to think that i think that if you dont follow the law and commands to a tee that youll loose your salvation.. and thats not what im sayin at all.. no one has or can do that since JESUS.. we are only made righteous by HIS blood and our faith and love for HIM. and our love for HIM and our brethren is shown by following HIS commands..
even though we have grace we are still expected to walk in HIS ways.. and if we mess up we are to ask forgiveness and repent.. and stop doin it..
Praise the LORD JESUS CHRIST, and may GOD'S wisdom rest in the hearts of All HIS people.
Peace and love to the saints of GOD.
Don'thitthatmark, your words here ""Sin is the transgression of the law"
If there was no law...there would be no sin...right? Is there still sin?"
Dear brother, sin was in the world before GOD gave the law by Moses.
But sin is not imputed where there is no law...Read Romans chap 5 for more info.
Even without there being a written law, there is still the Will of GOD. If you walk in the SPIRIT you will not violate GOD'S will.
This was Paul's response to those who attempted to bring the law back into their walk with CHRIST: (Please read carefully and prayerfully)
Ga 3:1
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Ga 3:2
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Ga 3:3
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Ga 3:4
Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
Ga 3:5
He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Ga 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Dear ones, let us be Real Careful Not to Frustrate the Grace of GOD. JESUS gave HIS LIFE to give us this Glorious Gift. Amen.
Praise the LORD JESUS CHRIST and peace to the children of The Most High GOD.
Dear cattleman...similiaries doesn't mean carried over; Concerning the Old and New Testaments.
We are under the New Testatment only. Yes there are similarities between the New and the Old, but that doesn't mean you're under both. Did you Read my first post in this forum thoroughly? By the grace of GOD I explained it there.
Just think, if you had a 1999 pick up and 5 years later traded it in for that year's model of the same truck. Now you will personally only drive one of the vechicles off the lot.
Yes they may have some of the same features, but you are only driving in the New One.
If you wake up the next day and get into your New truck and it looks and feels so much like the old one, that doesn't give you a good reason to began to say, "Hey, this is my old pick-up". I have both trucks.
Just don't let the neighbors hear ya talk like that. :ROFL:
Enjoy the new truck, it's much better. Enjoy the New Testatment dear ones, it's much better, established on better promises. Amen.
Remember, JESUS is only the MEDIATOR of the New Testament.
Heb 8:6
But now hath HE obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also HE is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Ok, it's way past time for me to get a little rest. Peace and Love.
"Dear brother, sin was in the world before GOD gave the law by Moses."
I couldn't have said it better. But they knew it was sin, because God told them it was. Disobeying God is sin. I believe the law is God's character. God has always had His character. I believe He will write His law/character on our hearts, so we can become more like Him.
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother...(from the new testament...what was he talking about?)
And the question is still out there. Again. Which part of the law is gone? All of it?
Obviously committing murder is wrong. So all the laws that were summed up in Jesus' second commandment are still there right? We're supposed to keep them in the spirit. Love your neighbor as yourself. Don't steal from your neighbor. Don't kill him. Don't lie about him. What about the first command of Jesus? Love God with all your heart. Is worshiping idols still wrong? Is taking God's name in vain still sin? Is worshiping the sun god still a sin?
Dear , "don'thitthatmark" I want to add that if we were to keep the Sabbath as is stated under the law, the Apostle Paul, being well educated in the law, would not have been able to justly make these statments:
Col 2:16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Ro 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Ro 14:6
He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Praise the LORD JESUS CHRIST.
May we walk in the SPIRIT of CHRIST, obeying the commands of the New Testament Scriptures, pleasing GOD in all we Feel, Think, Say, and Do until the Glorious Appearing of the Great GOD and Our SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST. Amen.
Titus 2:11
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Titus 2:12
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Right, which is why I think he's talking about the Jewish holidays/festivals/sacrificial holy days...otherwise...he would be saying that one of the ten commandments is conditional, and that we can keep it however we feel like. That doesn't sound like God's eternal law to me.
"Oh, well, stealing is wrong, but only if you steal from poor people. It's "ok" to steal from the rich."
"Wednesday is day I keep holy. God's says to worship on the 7th day, but it's such a hassle..."
James 2:11 "For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law."
So what happens if you don't murder...but you forget the 7th day to keep it holy? What I'm trying to say is...they are both in the law. Why are we supposed to keep one and not the other? And besides that...if all of a sudden, we're not supposed to worry about the commandments anymore...I would think God would make that very clear in the Bible. But James, Peter, John, Paul, and even Jesus all say to keep the law. Nowhere does it say that we're not supposed to keep it...it just says...we're not under it. We, as Christians, are not under the punishment of the law, because Jesus saved us through grace. That's what I think it means. And I also think we're supposed to try and keep the law as best we can. And if we fail, God's grace is sufficient.
Praise the LORD dear brother, don'thitthatmark and peace be unto you....I ask you the question. Explain the Scripture which I put in my last post concerning the law being Abolished. Can you clearly see that it is talking about the 10 Commandments, even with the Scriptural reference I gave, by the grace of GOD. (Ex 34:28-34).
