Interesting isn't it? A collection being taken for the saints, plural, not the leaders(whatever you wish to call them)
As I appointed the assemblies of the galatian region, you do it the same way.
Verse 2: on the first day of the week let each one set aside with him/her self, storing up whatever he/she is prospered, so that whenever I come, collections might not be made then.
Each believer, as they are prospered-that's a personal decision based on each person's conscience, not a certain amount or percentage as under the law of moses-
Verse 3: and whenever I arrive, those whom you approve, through letters, I will send those approved ones to carry your gift to Jerusalem.
Now we see who the collection is being made for, the believers in Jerusalem. No set amount, just as each believer considers to have been profited. And it's to be done the first day of the week.
This subject of the gift for Jerusalem believers is dealt with in great detail in ii
Corinthians chapters 8 and 9. Too often these passages are latched onto by preachers who want the saints to give to the "local church." As Quiznos has pointed out many times, verses are taken out of context. I was raised in a "church" that taught "storehouse"(see Malachi) and "faith promise"(ii Cor. 8/9) giving.
As I have said elsewhere on here, God wants believers to give to other believers(Ephesians 4:28). But there is never an indication of salary or tithing. Those who teach and lead in the assembly (acts 20:33-35) are to set the example for other believers by working. There was no professional clergy in the New testament.
One of the posts here quoted the scripture, sell your possessions and give alms(like 12:33). That was a command to the disciples. In Luke 18:22 Christ gives that same command to an individual. Either that command is an absolute for every believer for all time, since it was given, or it isn't. Let's go the law of Moses or even farther back. Noah was commanded to build an ark by God. Either that was a specific command to Noah or each one of us needs to build an ark. Abraham was commanded to circumcise himself and his children. Do we need to circumcise ourselves and our male children to be part of the body of Christ? In Matthew 8:4 Christ told the healed leper to go offer that which Moses had commanded. Are we still under those laws? After all, Christ did say it.
If you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly father will forgive you. If you do not forgive others, neither will your father forgive your trespasses (Matthew 6:14-15).
Is that true for all time ever since it was spoken(Lord's prayer, Matt. 6:12)?
"Noah was commanded to build an ark by God. Either that was a specific command to Noah or each one of us needs to build an ark"
Yes it was either specifically to Noah, to the one moved by the Lord to be saved only, and saved not the old world of men, but brought the flood upon the entire world of the ungodly...
2 Peter 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
"Abraham was commanded to circumcise himself and his children. Do we need to circumcise ourselves and our male children to be part of the body of Christ?"
He is not a Jew in circumcision of the flesh, as they all saw the promises afar off, and all circumcised in the flesh.
Then he is a Jew, inwardly only in conscience to God (new way) in the Spirit of the Son given into us, all circumcised in the heart where God dwells..
Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
"In Matthew 8:4 Christ told the healed leper to go offer that which Moses had commanded. Are we still under those laws? After all, Christ did say it."
For a testimony unto them, that testimony was not fulfilled in your eyesight ? Also they were brought before governers and kings for Christs sake as a testimony against them:
Matthew 8L4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.
Matthew 10:18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles...
Yes this was specifically for Apostle Paul as a testimony which you must not believe in being testified against them the same as testified unto the priest for the leper healed by Christs works on this world as testimony to believe in..
Acts 23:24 And provide them beasts, that they may set Paul on, and bring him safe unto Felix the governor.
Acts 26:30 And when he had thus spoken, the king rose up, and the governor, and Bernice, and they that sat with them:
the rich man tries is testified, or not ,to protect his wealth but fails, the POOR in understanding finds him out :)
"sell your possessions and give alms(like 12:33). That was a command to the disciples. In Luke 18:22 Christ gives that same command to an individual. Either that command is an absolute for every believer for all time, since it was given, or it isn't."
Proverbs 18:11 The rich man's wealth is his strong city, and as an high wall in his own conceit.
Proverbs 28:11 The rich man is wise in his own conceit; but the poor that hath understanding searcheth him out.
"If you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly father will forgive you. If you do not forgive others, neither will your father forgive your trespasses (Matthew 6:14-15).
"Is that true for all time ever since it was spoken(Lord's prayer, Matt. 6:12)?"
1 John 2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
So since it was fulfilled that your sins are forgiven for His sake, as Christ did continue to lay His life down for our sins to be nailed to His cross, do we pray the same prayer as if our sins were never forgiven, not confessing or believing Christ has forgiven us our trespasses and that He did get the victory and has destroyed those sins, the works of the devil..
1 Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
There is a new song, there is also a new commandment as the true light now shines, the Spirit, makes the prayers now for us, as we cannot, and never could make intercession( that is Christ for us) crying to the Father for us, as only the Son is heard..
Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
quiznos or whoever you are, if you did not understand my answer, how could you know if I understood abounding grace or not...
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Cherry picking scripture: go not into the way of the gentiles and do not enter into any city of the Samaritans, but go rather to the Lost sheep of the house of Israel(Matthew 10:5-6)
The disciples were to confine their preaching to Israel. They were not to preach the kingdom to gentiles or to Samaritans. Is this scripture true? Of course it is. But is it true for every person and every situation since then? It is not. It was truth for the disciples. Christ himself said, "I was not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel(Matthew 15:24).
"Cherry picking scripture: go not into the way of the gentiles and do not enter into any city of the Samaritans, but go rather to the Lost sheep of the house of Israel(Matthew 10:5-6)
The disciples were to confine their preaching to Israel. They were not to preach the kingdom to gentiles or to Samaritans. Is this scripture true? Of course it is. But is it true for every person and every situation since then? It is not. It was truth for the disciples. Christ himself said, "I was not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel(Matthew 15:24)."
Yes faithless is it not, to not include the extra explanations of Christ.
GENTILE GREEKS HEARING THE DISCIPLES AND CHRIST PREACHING TO THEM AND HEALING THEM TOO AND ACKNOWLEDGING THE GREAT FAITH THE GREEK WOMAN HAD TOO, TRY HAVING SOME FAITH LIKE THAT WHOEVER YOU ARE..
John 12:20 And there were certain GREEKS AMONG THEM that came up to worship at the feast:
21 The same came therefore to Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and DESIRED HIM, saying, Sir, WE WOULD SEE JESUS.
22 Philip cometh and telleth Andrew: and again Andrew and Philip tell Jesus.
23 And JESUS ANSWERED THEM, saying, The hour is come, that THE SON OF MAN SHOULD BE GLORIFIED.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, EXCEPT A CORN OF WHEAT FALL INTO THE GROUND AND DIE IT ABIDETH ALONE: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
26 IF ANY MAN SERVE ME, LET HIM FOLLOW ME; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: IF ASNY MAN SERVE ME, HIM WILL MY FATHER HONOUR
Mark 7:24 And from thence he arose, and went into the borders of Tyre and Sidon, and entered into an house, and would have no man know it: but he could not be hid.
25 For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet:
26 THE WOMAN WAS A GREEK, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter.
27 But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.
28 And SHE ANSWERED and said unto him, YES LORD, YET THE DOGS UNDER THE TABLE EAT OF THE CHILDRENS CRUMBS.
29 And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter.
Now I am going to Jerusalem, serving the saints, for Macedonia and achaia thought it good to make some contribution for the poor saints in Jerusalem. they thought it good to do it because they are indebted to them. For if the gentiles shared in their(Jews) spiritual things, they(gentiles) are indebted to share with them in material things(literally "things of the flesh").
So Paul is going to Jerusalem, taking the offering raised by the gentile believers, for the poor Jewish believers. Now would some believers use this to teach that gentile believers should send money to poor Christians in Israel? Of course. Are they correct? Not at all. Why not? Because Paul nowhere else talks to the other gentile believers about sending a contribution to the Jewish believers.
Could we make an application that we should share with other believers in the world? Of course. Why? Because there are other passages which command is to do that. Examples are not commands.
Since I mentioned "example" in my previous post, I think it proper to throw this out there.
Paul circumcised Timothy(acts 16:3). Nowhere are we told to circumcise ourselves or anyone else. Just because some action is described by the biblical writers, it doesn't mean we are to do it. Not every thing described in scripture would be proper and fitting for us to do, even if it were considered godly and righteous at the time.
"Paul circumcised Timothy(acts 16:3). Nowhere are we told to circumcise ourselves or anyone else. Just because some action is described by the biblical writers, it doesn't mean we are to do it. Not every thing described in scripture would be proper and fitting for us to do, even if it were considered godly and righteous at the time."
Your words are incorrect, circumcisionj of Timothy was not considered godly and righteous at the time, but there was a confliction because Timothy had a mother z Jew, and a father, a Greek.
Apostle Paul wanted Timothy for the ministry, but the Jews requirement to allow Timothy was to circumcise him, and aul did that, as it was better to do that requirement than to not have Timothy was was a great labouror for he Lord..
Acts 16:1 Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father was a Greek:
2 Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium.
3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.
Galatians 6:12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
Neither circumcision or circumcision it is taught has any value, also if you do not believe in a new creature(that is faith in Christ) then it has no value for you..
Matthew 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
