I’m going to post a series of articles that help explain and correct some of the heresies that keep popping up on forum threads here, especially those posted by the formally featured Chuckk and now posted under his new aliases and/or even a willing accomplice, Quiznos.
Please review this article and see for yourself
Ebionites- Early Jewish Christians and Islamic Christology
Thread starterDavidSon Start dateAug 3, 2019
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DavidSon
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Aug 3, 2019
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The subject of the Ebionites, Nazarenes, and other early sects was brought up here by @Serveto and a few of the older members. Recently a childishly generic description of the "Poor Ones" was posted, but searching a bit deeper I think this part of history is worth understanding clearly.
"Ebionites (Greek: Ἐβιωναῖοι, Ebionaioi, derived from Hebrew אביונים ebyonim, ebionim, meaning "the poor" or "poor ones") is a patristic term referring to a Jewish Christian movement that existed during the early centuries of the Christian Era. They regarded Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah while rejecting his divinity and his virgin birth, and insisted on the necessity of following Jewish law and rites. They used only one of the Jewish–Christian gospels, the Hebrew Book of Matthew starting at chapter three; revered James, the brother of Jesus (James the Just); and rejected Paul the Apostle as an apostate from the Law. Their name suggests that they placed a special value on voluntary poverty."
"The majority of Church Fathers agree that the Ebionites rejected many of the precepts central to Nicene orthodoxy, such as Jesus' pre-existence, divinity, virgin birth, atoning death and physical resurrection. On the other hand, an Ebionite story has Jesus eating bread with his brother, Jacob ("James the Just"), after the resurrection, which indicates that they, or at least the ones who accepted this version of the Gospel of the Hebrews, believed in a physical resurrection of Jesus."
"The Ebionites are described as emphasizing the oneness of God and the humanity of Jesus as the biological son of Mary and Joseph, who, by virtue of his righteousness, was chosen by God to be the messianic "prophet like Moses" when he was anointed with the Holy Spirit at his baptism. Origen and Eusebius recognize some variation in the Christology of Ebionite groups; for example, that while all denied Jesus' pre-existence, there was a sub-group which did not deny the virgin birth. Theodoret, while dependent on earlier writers, draws the conclusion that the two sub-groups would have used different Gospels."
"The 12th century Muslim historian Muhammad al-Shahrastani mentions Jews living in nearby Medina and Hejaz who accepted Jesus as a prophetic figure and followed traditional Judaism, rejecting mainstream Christian views. Some scholars argue that they contributed to the development of the Islamic view of Jesus due to exchanges of Ebionite remnants with the first Muslims."
"... Paul Addae and Tim Bowes write that the Ebionites were faithful to the original teachings of Jesus and thus shared Islamic views about Jesus' humanity and also rejected the redemptive death, though the Islamic view of Jesus may conflict with the view of some Ebionites regarding the virgin birth, respectively denying and affirming, according to Epiphanius. One of the first men to believe in the prophethood of Muhammad was possibly an Ebionite (sometimes argued to be Nestorian) monk named Waraqah ibn Nawfal, the cousin of Mohammed's wife Khadija, who Muslims honor as a pious man with deep knowledge of the Christian scriptures."
"Hans Joachim Schoeps observes that the Christianity Muhammad was likely to have encountered on the Arabian peninsula "was not the state religion of Byzantium but a schismatic Christianity characterized by Ebionite and Monophysite views:
"Thus we have a paradox of world-historical proportions, viz., the fact that Jewish Christianity indeed disappeared within the Christian church, but was preserved in Islam and thereby extended some of its basic ideas even to our own day. According to Islamic doctrine, the Ebionite combination of Moses and Jesus found its fulfillment in Muhammad"
"Question for you Chuck if you don't mind. Does your personal belief, your messianic faith teach a virgin birth of the Messiah and a physical resurrection of the Messiah already taken place? As an example of all the dead, on a resurrection day in the future?"
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Answer: The messianic faith DOES teach a virgin birth of the Messiah and a physical resurrection of the Messiah already taken place.
I don't necessarily believe differently, but do not consider either a mandatory tenet of salvation or Christianity. In others words I believe a person can either believe in a virgin birth or not and still be a Christian. Jesus never taught you had to believe his Mom was a virgin. As for the physical resurrection, I believe Jesus DID rise from the dead, but I think Scripture leaves some ambiguity on the table to exactly in what form.
I and messianics believe future resurrection of the dead. I see don't see prophecy as a one time occurrence or fulfillment, but as fractals. (fulfilled in small, then bigger, then larger, then the ultimate fulfillment).
Quiznos, Khutzpah and HiddenMountain do not believe that Jesus is **GOD** and He is not or **SAVIOR** since His blood does not make atonement for our sins.
Khutzpah Satanic quote:
"Jesus never taught you had to believe his Mom was a virgin. As for the physical resurrection, I believe Jesus DID rise from the dead, but I think Scripture leaves some ambiguity on the table to exactly in what form."????
**BUT WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY**??
**IS JESUS OUR GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR**??
Jesus is called **GOD** **7 TIMES** and **LORD** over 200 times in God's Word. Everyone believes that all the words of John are God's Word and Jesus is called **GOD** **THREE TIMES** in the Book of John!!
While the holy spirit is never called God or Lord even once and is **NEVER** worshipped in the NT. There will only be **TWO THRONES** for Jesus and the Father in the eternal New Jerusalem as per Revelation 22:3.But this is a long Bible study So we will only show that Jesus is God in this Bible study.
John 20:27-29: Then He said to Thomas, "Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe!" Thomas said to him, "My Lord and **MY GOD**!" Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed!"
Isaiah 9:6: For unto us a Child is born, to us a Son is given, and the government will be on His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor and **MIGHTY GOD**!
Isaiah 7:14: The Lord Himself will give you a sign. The virgin will conceive and give birth to a Son, and will call Him **IMMANUEL**! {Which means **GOD WITH US**!}
Matthew 1:20-23: The angel of the Lord said to Joseph, "Take Mary home as your wife because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She is to give birth to a Son, and you are to give Him the name Jesus which means **GOD IS HELP**, because He will save His people from their sins. All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet {Isaiah 7:14 above} "The virgin will conceive and give birth to a Son, and they will call Him **IMMANUEL** which means **GOD WITH US**!
John 1:18: No one has ever seen God, but the One and only Son, who is **HIMSELF GOD** and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made Him known!
John 14:6,7: Jesus says, "I am the **WAY** the **TRUTH** and the **LIFE**. No one comes to the Father except through Me. If you really knew Me, you will know the Father as well. From now on, you do know Him and have **SEEN HIM**!"
**GOD'S WORD COMMANDS THAT WE SHOULD ONLY WORSHIP GOD**!!
Matthew 4:9,10: Satan said to Jesus, "All this I will give you if you bow down and worship me." Jesus said to him, Away from Me Satan! For it is written, '**WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD** and serve Him only!
Revelation 19:9,10: The angel said to me, "Write this: **BLESSED** are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the **LAMB**!" And he added, "These are the true words of God!" At this I fell at his feet to **WORSHIP** him, But he said to me, "Don't do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus! **WORSHIP GOD**! For it is the spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus!"
Revelation 22:8,9: I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. But he said to me, "**DON'T DO THAT** A am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who **KEEP THE WORDS** of this scroll. **WORSHIP GOD**!!
Hebrews 1:6,8: When God brings His firstborn into the world He says, "Let all God's angels **WORSHIP HIM**.... About the Son He says, "Your throne, **O GOD**, will last for ever and ever, a scepter of justice will be the scepter of **YOUR KINGDOM**!"
Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, "**ALL AUTHORITY**in heaven and on earth has been given to **ME**. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations... and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always!"
**JESUS CHRIST, OUR GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR**
Jesus is **WORSHIPED** many times in God's Word in Matthew 2:2,8,11; 14:33; 28:9,17 Luke 24:52 John 9:38 and Revelation 5:11-14 and !5:4!!
Matthew 2:10,11: When the Wise Men saw the star, they were overjoyed. On coming to the house, they saw the Child with His mother Mary, and they bowed down and **WORSHIPED HIM**!
Matthew 14:33; Then those who were in the boat **WORSHPED HIM**!!
Matthew 28:8,9: So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell His disciples. Suddenly Jesus met them. "Greetings," He said. They came to Him, clasped His feet and **WORSHIPED HIM**!
Matthew 28:16,17: Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When the saw Him, they **WORSHIPED HIM**!
There are some who completely ignore these Scriptures and claim that Jesus is not God because he said that the Father is greater than me in John 14:28 and that the Father told Him what to say as per John 14:23,24: Jesus says, "Anyone who loves Me will obey My teaching. My Father will love them, and We will come to them and make our home with them. Anyone who does not love Me will not obey My teaching. The words you hear are not My own; they belong to the Father who sent Me."
John 9:37,38: Jesus said, "You have now seen Him; in fact, He is the one speaking with you!" Then the man said, "Lord, I believe," and he **WORSHIPED HIM**!
NOTE: Jesus is called the **LAMB** 30 times in the book of Revelation!
Revelation 5:13,14: Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, an all that is In them, saying "To Him who sits on the throne and to the **LAMB** be praise and honor and glory and power for ever and ever!" The 4 living creatures said, "Amen," and the elders fell down and **WORSHIPED**!
Revelation 17:14; They will wage war against the **LAMB**, but the **LAMB** will overcome them because He is **LORD** of lords and King of kings--and with Him will be **HIS** **CALLED**, *CHOSEN** and **FAITHFUL** followers!!
Titus 2:13,14: We wait for the **BLESSED HOPE**--the glorious appearing of our **GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR**, Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify a people that are **HIS VERY OWN**, eager to do what is good!!
John 1:1-4,18: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the **WORD WAS GOD**. He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing has been made that was made. In Him was **LIFE**and that **LIFE** was the light of all mankind. No one has seen God, but the One and Only Son, who is **HIMSELF GOD** and is in the closest relationship with the Father has made him known!"
"Quiznos, Khutzpah and HiddenMountain do not believe that Jesus is **GOD** and He is not or **SAVIOR** since His blood does not make atonement for our sins. "
While the lying Khutzpah claimed my quote was:
"do not believe that Jesus is **GOD** and He is not or **SAVIOR** since His blood does not make atonement for our sins."
Which leaves out QUIZNOS AND KHUTZPAH do not believe..!!!
Some other extremely Lying misquotes by Khutzoah:
A quote from PROPHETIC'S POST: {Which leaves out Khutzpah believes!}
"Paul is an imposter apostle, the first corrupter of the Gospel, Y'shua's arch nemesis and his false letters and Luke's false writings MUST be wholly rejected."
Another QUOTE from PROPHETIC'S POST: {Which leaves out Khutzpah believes}
"The bible or book, is not the Word of GOD Almighty, but rather the translations of man."
Yet another QUOTE from PROPHETIC'S POST:{Which leaves out Khutzpah believes}
"Apostle Paul or Impostor Paul? Paul called himself an Apostle and seemingly taught a different gospel."
"Jesus never taught you had to believe his Mom was a virgin. As for the physical resurrection, I believe Jesus DID rise from the dead, but I think Scripture leaves some ambiguity on the table to exactly in what form."????
khutzpah: When I quote God's Word in the NT which contradicts your beliefs that Jesus was not born to a **VIRGIN** you respond by implying the NT is not inspired by God which shows that Jesus was born to a **VIRGIN** taught by the inspired books of Matthew, Mark and Luke!!
