When i first trusted Messiah to save me back in 1984, i heard the christians talking about a ' rapture ' that GOD Almighty would take the christians out of this life before the Tribulation was to happen.
As a young believer i listened to men on the radio from calvary chapel, grace to you, J Vernon McGee, and others that would talk about the rapture.
Where i assembled with others, the Elders would talk about the rapture from time to time.
As the Holy Spirit brought me along, He began to place in my mind to investigate whether this rapture was in the Word.
I began to investigate by reading what some had written about the rapture, as i was reading i would read the scripture the writes used to say there was a rapture.
Upon reading the meaning of the Greek word used to proclaim the rapture, i found the scriptures did not support the rapture, that it was made up by a man in order to lull the christians into a false sense of security.
The scriptures, Biblical doctrine are what people need not the rapture theory.
Finally, what are you believing, are you placing faith into an event known as the rapture, OR are you placing your faith into the Messiah Yahshua.
That is why Darby started the ideology. It was due to MacDonald's visions. It was a section of time for dispensationalism when Darby and others believed there would he a time of "signs and wonders", and when MacDonald claimed to have these visions, Darby and others assumed it to be special revelation they were looking for. In other words, they were looking for something to convince themselves of what they already wanted to believe.
END TOTH QUOTE
TOTH, Based on the facts of history, I must respectfully disagree. Although I’m not a necessarily a follower of Darby and some forms of dispensationalism, I believe he has been unfairly maligned in recent years.
First of all, Darby only sparked renewed dispensational interest, he did not invent it after meeting with a young Scottish Charismatic girl named Margret MacDonald. Historically, Darby’s views on dispensationalism clearly preceded MacDonald’s alleged vision.
TOTH, Based on the facts of history, I must respectfully disagree. Although I’m not necessarily a follower of Darby and some forms of dispensationalism, I believe he has been unfairly maligned in recent years.
First of all, Darby only sparked renewed dispensational interest, he did not invent it after meeting with a young Scottish Charismatic girl named Margret MacDonald. Historically, Darby’s views on dispensationalism clearly preceded MacDonald’s alleged vision.
**WHAT WILL TAKE PLACE AT THE SECOND COMING OF JESUS ON THE LAST DAY OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION**??
2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 shows that all saints including the Church Saints and all of the Lost will be resurrected on the **SAME LAST DAY**and judged at the 2nd coming of Jesus.
John 6:39, John 6:40 and John 5:44 compared with John 12:48 shows that all saints including the Church Saints will be resurrected, and all of the lost will be judged on the **SAME LAST DAY**
John 5:26,29 and Daniel 12:1,2,7 shows us that the saved and the lost will be resurrected on the **SAME DAY**. and Daniel 12:1,2,7 also shows us that the saved and lost will be resurrected on the Last Day of the Great Tribulation.
I Thessalonions 4:16-18 and I Thessalonians 5:1-4: compared with 2 Peter 3:10,13 shows us that the saints will be resurrected on the same **DAY OF THE LORD** which will come as a thief in the night to unbelievers but will not surprise God's saints. And on this same **DAY OF THE LORD** the present heavens and earth will be completely destroyed and disappear as per 2 Peter 3:10,13!!
Titus 2:12,13; Matthew 16:27; I Peter 1:13; I Corinthians 1:7; Hebrews 9:28; I Corinthians 15:23; Colossians 3:4; I John 3:2,3; I John 2:28; 2 Timothy 4:18 and I Peter 5:4 shows us that all God's saints will be resurrected at the glorious 2nd Coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Matthew 24:29-31, Matthew 25:31-46, Mark 13:26,27; Luke 21:27,28; Revelation 11:15-18; Revelation 14-20 and Daniel 12:1,2,7 shows that the resurrection of the saints will come on the Last Day of the Great Tribulation!
I John 3:23 and I Corinthians 15:49-52 shows that all of God's saints at the 2nd Coming of Jesus will get a new heavenly body **JUST LIKE THE BODY OF JESUS**!!
Jude 14,15; Revelation 19:7:21 and Revelation 17:14 shows that just after His 2nd Coming and the Marriage Feast of the Lamb Jesus and His saints wil mount heavenly white horses and defeat the armies of 666, and throw 666 and his false prophet alive into eternal torment in hell!!
Revelation 17:14: They will make war against the **LAMB** but the **LAMB** will overcome them because He is **LORD** of lords and **KING** of kings, and with Him will be His **CALLED**, **CHOSEN** and **FAITHFUL** followers!!
2 Peter 3:10-13: But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will DISAPPEAR with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and *EVERYTHING* in it will be burned up {NIV}. Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you {**CHURCH SAINTS*} wait eagerly for the Day of God to come. {NIV} That Day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with His promise **WE** {Excluding the Preterists, the messyanics and the RC church} are looking forward to a **NEW HEAVENS** and a **NEW EARTH**, the home of righteousness.
Revelation 21:1-5: Then I saw a **NEW HEAVEN** and a **NEW EARTH**, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City the **NEW JERUSALEM**, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Look! God's dwelling place is now among the people, and He will dwell with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making **EVERYTHING NEW**!! Then He said, "Write this down, for these words are **TRUSTWORTHY AND TRUE**!! "
Revelation 21:22,23; 22:1-5: I did not see any temple in the City, because the Lord God Almighty are its temple. The City does not need the sun or the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God gives its light, and the **LAMB** is its Lamp!....Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowung down from the throne of God and of the **LAMB**down the middle of the great street of the City. On each side of the river stood the Tree of Life, bearing 12 crops of fruit, yeilding its fruit every month. No longer will there be any curse. The Throne of God and of the **LAMB** will be in the City, and His servants will serve Him. They will see His face, and His name wll be on on their foreheads. There will be no more night. They will not the light of a lampor the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign **FOR EVER AND EVER**!
Revelation 2:18; 3:12,21: Jesus says, "To him who overcomes I will give him a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it... I will write on him the name of the City of My God, the **NEW JERUSALEM**, which is coming down out of heaven from My God....And I will give the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne." {There will be only **TWO THRONES** in the eternal New Jerusalem!}
I have not found ONE person who went bodily apart from Yeshua. Have you?
I had a thread a ways back that showed that Elijah was taken up in the air/first heaven and placed in another part of the earth because he sent a letter to the king after he was "caught up" so he didn't die or get taken to heaven bodily.
2 kings 2:16
King James Bible
And they said unto him, Behold now, there be with thy servants fifty strong men; let them go, we pray thee, and seek thy master: lest peradventure the Spirit of the LORD hath taken him up, and cast him upon some mountain, or into some valley. And he said, Ye shall not send.
Regarding 2 kings 3 :
if Elijah was taken to heaven during the reign of Jehoshaphat, then how can he send a letter to Jehoram, who was the king after Jehoshaphat?
Was Elijah whisked away to another location, much like Philip was in Acts 8:39–40?
Khutzpah is looking for a Satanic earthly kingdom?? Khutzpah also does not believe that Jesus is our **GREAT** GOD** and **SAVIOR** and that the New Testament is inspired by God???
TOTH: Actually Khutzpah is helping me get many **HEAVENLY REWARDS**!!
Matthew 5:12,13: Jesus says, "Bless are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against because of Me. **REJOICE** and be glad, because great is your **REWARD IN HEAVEN**!"
Luke 6:22,23: Jesus says, "Blessed are you when people hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man. Rejoice in that day and **LEAP FOR JOY**, because great is your **REWARD IN HEAVEN**!"
Then Khutzpah makes fun of these words of Jesus and falsely claims that **HEAVENLY REWARDS** is the Prosperity Gospel. But as everyone but Khutzpah knows the prosperity Gospel promises only earthly rewards amd earthly riches.
**WHAT WILL TAKE PLACE AT THE SECOND COMING OF JESUS ON THE LAST DAY OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION**??
2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 shows that all saints including the Church Saints and all of the Lost will be resurrected on the **SAME LAST DAY**and judged at the 2nd coming of Jesus.
John 6:39, John 6:40 and John 5:44 compared with John 12:48 shows that all saints including the Church Saints will be resurrected, and all of the lost will be judged on the **SAME LAST DAY**
John 5:26,29 and Daniel 12:1,2,7 shows us that the saved and the lost will be resurrected on the **SAME DAY**. and Daniel 12:1,2,7 also shows us that the saved and lost will be resurrected on the Last Day of the Great Tribulation.
I Thessalonions 4:16-18 and I Thessalonians 5:1-4: compared with 2 Peter 3:10,13 shows us that the saints will be resurrected on the same **DAY OF THE LORD** which will come as a thief in the night to unbelievers but will not surprise God's saints. And on this same **DAY OF THE LORD** the present heavens and earth will be completely destroyed and disappear as per 2 Peter 3:10,13!!
Titus 2:12,13; Matthew 16:27; I Peter 1:13; I Corinthians 1:7; Hebrews 9:28; I Corinthians 15:23; Colossians 3:4; I John 3:2,3; I John 2:28; 2 Timothy 4:18 and I Peter 5:4 shows us that all God's saints will be resurrected at the glorious 2nd Coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Matthew 24:29-31, Matthew 25:31-46, Mark 13:26,27; Luke 21:27,28; Revelation 11:15-18; Revelation 14-20 and Daniel 12:1,2,7 shows that the resurrection of the saints will come on the Last Day of the Great Tribulation!
I John 3:23 and I Corinthians 15:49-52 shows that all of God's saints at the 2nd Coming of Jesus will get a new heavenly body **JUST LIKE THE BODY OF JESUS**!!
Jude 14,15; Revelation 19:7:21 and Revelation 17:14 shows that just after His 2nd Coming and the Marriage Feast of the Lamb Jesus and His saints wil mount heavenly white horses and defeat the armies of 666, and throw 666 and his false prophet alive into eternal torment in hell!!
Revelation 17:14: They will make war against the **LAMB** but the **LAMB** will overcome them because He is **LORD** of lords and **KING** of kings, and with Him will be His **CALLED**, **CHOSEN** and **FAITHFUL** followers!!
2 Peter 3:10-13: But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will DISAPPEAR with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and *EVERYTHING* in it will be burned up {NIV}. Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you {**CHURCH SAINTS*} wait eagerly for the Day of God to come. {NIV} That Day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with His promise **WE** {Excluding the Preterists, the messyanics and the RC church} are looking forward to a **NEW HEAVENS** and a **NEW EARTH**, the home of righteousness.
Revelation 21:1-5: Then I saw a **NEW HEAVEN** and a **NEW EARTH**, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City the **NEW JERUSALEM**, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Look! God's dwelling place is now among the people, and He will dwell with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making **EVERYTHING NEW**!! Then He said, "Write this down, for these words are **TRUSTWORTHY AND TRUE**!! "
Revelation 21:22,23; 22:1-5: I did not see any temple in the City, because the Lord God Almighty are its temple. The City does not need the sun or the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God gives its light, and the **LAMB** is its Lamp!....Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowung down from the throne of God and of the **LAMB**down the middle of the great street of the City. On each side of the river stood the Tree of Life, bearing 12 crops of fruit, yeilding its fruit every month. No longer will there be any curse. The Throne of God and of the **LAMB** will be in the City, and His servants will serve Him. They will see His face, and His name wll be on on their foreheads. There will be no more night. They will not the light of a lampor the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign **FOR EVER AND EVER**!
Revelation 2:18; 3:12,21: Jesus says, "To him who overcomes I will give him a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it... I will write on him the name of the City of My God, the **NEW JERUSALEM**, which is coming down out of heaven from My God....And I will give the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne." {There will be only **TWO THRONES** in the eternal New Jerusalem!}
