If your not - start a thread on Paul. I'll meet you there.
But be prepared to be schooled!
Fair warning,
Paul may technically considered a Apostle to the Gentiles as in "messenger" But no way is he an Apostle in the same way the 12 are, Nor does he meet the qualifications the 12 Apostles defined as requirements of a Apostle.
Proceed at your own risk.
End quote
I know you are Messianic.. I know you keep the feast when we discussed it once when you was in here as Sadlup. (I prefer that username by the way , it suits your style and personality- love it!)
I am having a parallel discussion with another member on another thread simutaneously...so here is what I posted tonight.
The question presented to me was as follows:
"If Paul was teaching against the keeping of Torah why would he take part in any sacrifice, or take a vow that has it's roots in the Torah? "
Paul circumcised Timothy so that both of them would be received and be heard since Jews and Gentiles were not to co-mingle as the law forbid it and Timothy was a Greek. . It was necessary even though circumcision was not applicable at that time post cross. It was all about evangelizing the masses.
The Jerusalem brethren explained to Paul that thousands of Jews had “believed,” i.e., they had been converted to Christ.
Though these multitudes had become Christians, they had not arrived at the full realization that the introduction of Christianity made the law of Moses inoperative as a redemptive system. Accordingly, these new Christians still circumcised their children (as a covenant sign), and they observed many of the “customs” of the Mosaic regime.
Here was the problem: a report had been circulated widely that Paul went about constantly teaching that Jews, especially those who lived in Gentile lands, should “forsake,” (apostasia –. “apostasy”) Moses. “Moses” stands for the Old Testament economy. They apparently had concluded that Paul opposed any sort of connection with the Hebrew system, which was not true.
The Jewish antagonists were bound to hear that Paul was in Jerusalem, and there would be trouble. The following solution, therefore, was proposed. There were four Hebrew men who had placed themselves under a vow (likely a Nazarite vow). It was near the time for that ritual to be consummated by a purification ceremony in the temple. It was suggested, therefore, that Paul identify with them, paying their temple fees, and, “purifying” himself along with them. Such a procedure was allowed under the law. This would be done so that the Jews in general might see that Paul was “walking orderly, observing the law.” Gentiles, of course, were under no such constraints, as indeed the conference in Jerusalem had established
Not only were the four “purified,” but so was Paul—though likely not for the same reason. There is no evidence that the apostle was under a vow. However, since he recently had been in Gentile territory, he would be viewed as ceremonially “unclean,” hence would need to purify himself in order to partake with the others.
Paul’s teaching on the abolition of the law had been clear and definitive ( 2 Cor. 3; Rom. 7; Gal. 5).
"13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all>>> trespasses<<<; 14 blotting out the>>>> handwriting of ordinances<<<< that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 and having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."
-------------------------------------
I'm assuming you have no idea what a can of worms this passage is?
Who is the audience?
It can't be gentile Gentiles. Really the only option is the lost sheep Israelites from the Northern tribes who have become Gentiles.
And......
What is the handwriting?
The Ten Words?
The Blessings and Curses?
Torah?
Tanakh?
Babylonian proto-Talmud?
Penalties?
I assume you realize Paul believed the Law was delivered by Angels?
And......
Who are the "principalities and powers"?
Judaism believes it was the sin of the Angels that introduced sin into creation. Are these the same principalities and powers? Perhaps the fallen watchers? Or the ones during Noah's day, or perhaps those during the Tower of Babel?
Deeper investigation into the Book of Enoch would probably shed some light on what Paul was thinking when he wrote this.
We are already mortal, we are going to die anyway. Does God need to be paid for our sins?
There is no "erasing" here, but payment demanded by the Blood Covenant Avraham made with God for him and his descendants, confirmed and ratified at Sinai.
"Please give me the scripture that tells us Passover was nailed to the cross."
-----------------------
Passover was NOT nailed to the cross, it took on a new meaning, unfortunately labeled by the name of a pagan goddess and figured so it always fell on the first Day of the sun after the first full moon after the spring equinox thanks to the Catholic Church.
"When He died on the cross of Calvary, the veil of the great temple curtain was torn from top to bottom, to signify that the entire ceremonial system was forever finished"
--------------------------------
I think that's a reaching interpretation. That's not how I interpret that, nor does the Book of Hebrews.
The Book of Hebrews takes this to mean we now have direct access to the Holies of Holies.
While this may be true, I find it more than coincidental that in times of great grief, such as a Father loosing his only son in death, it was the Jewish custom for the father to rip his garments from top to bottom. This gesture surely wouldn't of been lost on the Jews of Jesus day!
"In Galatians 4:9-10 which says, "But now, after that you have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn you again to the weak and beggarly elements,"
------------------------------
READ IN CONTEXT‼️
Galatians are Gentiles, how can they be turning BACK to Jewish traditions they never kept?
Try reading up one verse;
Verse 8
"Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. 9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more?"
Paul is talking about turning back to pagan customs.
Yes, if you read even further up, Paul talks about those "born under the Law" - one of the great tragedies in Paul's writings is he never specifies which law he is talking about. This could be simply the law of sin and death.
"Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat [offerings], or in drink [offerings], or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"
-------------------------
What you don't get about this is, you're not to judge them either way! If they keep them or if they don't.
"Is it a coincidence that 2 messianic members are on the forum here during the same week and I am on 2 threads about the same subject simultaneously with both of them .
"Paul's advice should stand or fall on its own, rather than being declared words from the lips of God and therefore "New Commandments."
"Paul's advice is not a New Commandment from God."
"Who made Paul's words into God's word for all churches for all time????"
"You have no Scriptural support to back your assertion that Paul can impose (new) Commandments as Moses and Jesus."
"Who gave Paul equal authority with Moses and Jesus to write new commandments?"
Neither Moses or Paul had the authority to make new commandments!!
2 Peter 1:20-21: Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit!
God the Father inspired the 32 writers of the OT to write what He wanted them to write. Just as God the Father gave Jesus all authority in the New and better Covenant of faith and love.
John 16:12-15: Jesus says, "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear . But when he, the Spirit of Truth comes he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own, he will speak only what he hears, an he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify Me because it is **FROM ME** THAT HE WILL RECEIVE WHAT HE WILL MAKE KNOWN TO YOU**! All that belongs to the Father is Mine. That is why I said the Spirit will **RECEIVE FROM ME** what he will make known to you.
Matthew 28:18-20: ! Therefore Jesus says, "**ALL AUTHORITY** in heaven and earth has been given to **ME**! Therefore go and make disciples of all nations... Teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU**{The entire New Testament}. And surely I am with you always to the very end of the age.
And so Jesus told the Holy Spirit what he should inspire the 8 writers of the New and better Covenant to write which included about 400 New Covenant commandments all inspired by Jesus!!!
We know that Paul was martyred by orders of Nero Caesar in December of AD 66 and we know that Paul was inspired to write 2 Timothy the last of his 14 inspired books just before he ascended into heaven because of 2 Timothy 4:6-8: Paul said, "For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time for my departure is near. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race. I have kept the faith. Now there is in store for me the Crown of Righteousness1
All the other books of the New Testament except Revelation were written between AD 42 and AD 62 and had been distributed to most of the churches in the Roman Empire And so 2 Timothy 3:16: 4:1-3 included all the books of the Bible except Revelation:
2 Timothy 3:15; 4:1-3: All Scripture is **GOD-BREATHED** and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus {The Author of the NT}, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of His appearing and His Kingdom, I give you this charge: **PREACH THE WORD** {The **ENTIRE NEW TESTAMENT} Be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when people {Like Sadlup, ADAM7777 an Chuckles} will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires , they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear!
And in AD 96 Jesus added the book of Revelation to the New Testament:
Revelation 22:16,18,19: I, Jesus, have sent My angel to give you this testimony **FOR THE CHURCHES**!... I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone {Like Chuckles}**ADDS* anything to them, God will *ADD* to that person the plagues described in this book {Which will include eternal torment in hell as per Rev 14:9-11}. And if anyone**TAKES WORDS AWAY** { Like the Preterists and Chuckles} from this book of prophecy, God will **TAKE AWAY** from that person any share in the Tree of Life and in the Holy City {The ETERNAL **NEW JERUSALEM**} which are described in this book!!
Peter 1:23-25: You have been **BORN AGAIN THROUGH THE LIVING AND ENDURING **WORD OF GOD**!! All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field, the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the **WORD OF THE LORD STANDS FOREVER**. And this is the **WORD** that was preached to you.
Matthew 24:35: Jesus says, Heaven and earth will pass away, but **MY WORDS WILL NEVER PASS AWAY**!"
Colossians 3:16: Let the **WORD OF CHRIST** dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom!
What did Jesus and the Word of God say about the Apostle Paul in Acts and in 2 Peter 3:15-16??
Acts 22:24:15: Ananias said to Paul, "The God of our ancestors has **CHOSEN YOU** to **KNOW HIS WILL** and to see the Righteous One and **TO HEAR WORDS FROM HIS MOUTH**. **YOU WILL BE HIS WITNESS TO ALL PEOPLE** of what you have seen and heard.
Acts 26:16-18: The Lord Jesus said to Paul, "Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you and **APPOINTED YOU** AS A SERVANT AND AS A WITNESS OF WHAT YOU HAVE SEEN AND WILL SEE OF ME**! I am sending you to the Gentiles to open their eyes and turn then from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they my receive **FORGIVENESS OF SINS** and a place among those who **SANCTIFIED BY FAITH IN ME**!"
Acts 9:15: The Lord Jesus said to Ananias, "This man {PAUL} is **MY CHOSEN INSTRUMENT**to proclaim My name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel!"
Acts 20:27: Paul said, "For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the **WHOLE WILL OF GOD**!"
chuckles like Satan claims the above 4 Scriptures that God inspired Luke to write are lies, thus making God a liar. These are definitely unpardonable sins which will earn chuckles eternal torment in hell.
2 Peter 3:15,16: Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our **DEAR BROTHER PAUL ALSO WROTE WITH THE WISDOM THAT GOD GAVE HIM**! He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand {For the Lost}. which IGNORANT AND UNSTABLE PEOPLE DISTORT, {Like Chuckles} as they do other Scriptures to **THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION**!{Which would be eternal torment in hell}
John 12:48: Jesus says, "There is a Judge for the one {Like Chuckles} who does not accept My words, the very words I have spoken {In Acts 9:15 & Acts 26:16-18 above} will condemn them at the Last Day!"
Actions speak louder than an evil spirit quoting Scripture.
possessed prophetic adds to Scripture in violation of Scripture.
vvv
"Matthew 28:18-20: ! Therefore Jesus says, "**ALL AUTHORITY** in heaven and earth has been given to **ME**! Therefore go and make disciples of all nations... Teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU**{The entire New Testament}. And surely I am with you always to the very end of the age.
The prophetic spirit claims Jesus told us to obey the New Testament when not one word of the NT was yet written.
Btw, the verse does say "All" authority was given to Jesus. If "All" then what part is left for Paul? If Jesus gave Paul authority, let's here a verse from someone other than Paul saying Jesus made Paul an Apostle and gave him equal power with Moses and Jesus to write new Commands.
