Thread: **THERE ARE ONLY TWO VERSES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT FOR GIVING TO PREACHERS AND TEACHERS AND OVER THIRTY VERSES FOR HELPING THE POOR AND *ZERO VERSES** FOR GIVING TO CHURCH BUILDINGS SINCE THE EARLY CHURCH HAD CHURCH IN THEIR HOUSES AND HOMES**
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**THERE ARE ONLY TWO VERSES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT FOR GIVING TO PREACHERS AND TEACHERS AND OVER THIRTY VERSES FOR HELPING THE POOR AND *ZERO VERSES** FOR GIVING TO CHURCH BUILDINGS SINCE THE EARLY CHURCH HAD CHURCH IN THEIR HOUSES AND HOMES**
Posted : 15 Oct, 2019 09:02 PM
THERE ARE TWO VERSES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT FOR GIVING TO PREACHERS AND TEACHERS AND OVER THIRTY VERSES FOR HELPING THE POOR AND **ZERO VERSES** FOR GIVING FOR CHURCH BUILDINGS SINCE THE EARLY CHURCH HAD CHURCH IN THEIR HOUSES AND HOMES**
However, if you check the budgets of the Evangelical churches they only have about 1 percent for the poor and about 40 percent for the church buildings and their amenities!
Romans 16:5; ! Corinthians 1619; Colossians 4:15 and Philemon 1:2 shows that the early church held church in their own houses or homes!!
I Timothy 5:17,18: The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is **PREACHING AND TEACHING** {Which would also include prophets and evangelists} For Scripture says, "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain," and "The worker deserves his wages!"
I Corinthians 9:10,11,14: Whoever plows and threshes should be able to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest. If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you.... The Lord has commanded that those who preach the Gospel should receive their living from the Gospel!
Ephesians 4:7,11-14: To each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it.... So Christ Himself {Not the churches} gives some to be **PROPHETS**, some to be **EVANGELISTS** and some to be **PASTORS** and **TEACHERS**, to equip His people for works of service , so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness in Christ!!
Romans 16:5: Greet also the **CHURCH** that meets at their **HOUSE**!
I Corinthians 16:19: Aquila and Priscilla greet you warmly in the Lord and so does the **CHURCH** that meets at their **HOUSE**!
Colossians 4:15: Give my greetings to the brothers and sisters at Laodicea, and to Nympha and the **CHURCH** in her **HOUSE**!
Philemon 1:2: To Philemon our dear friend and fellow worker--also to Apphia our sister and Archhippus our fellow soldier-- and to the **CHURCH** that meets in your **HOME**!
Acts 4:32: All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but **THEY SHARED **EVERYTHING** THEY HAD**!!
Acts 2:44,45: All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions **TO GIVE TO EVERYONE WHO HAD NEED**!
Luke 18:20-25: Jesus said to the rich man, "You still lack one thing. **SELL WHAT YOU HAVE AND GIVE TO THE POOR**, and you will have **TREASURE IN HEAVEN**. Then come, **FOLLOW ME**. When he heard this he became very sad, because he was very wealthy. Jesus looked at him and said, "How hard it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God! Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle then for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God!"
NOTE: In addition to eternal life Jesus also promised the rich man **ETERNAL TEASURES IN HEAVEN**!!
Acts 10:30-32: Cornelius said, "Three days sgo I was in my house praying at this hour, at three in the afternoon suddenly a man in shining clothes stood before meand said, "Cornelius, God has heard your prayer and remembered **YOUR GIFTS TO THE POOR**. Send to Joppa for Simon who is also called Peter!!
**JESUS PROMISES **ETERNAL REWARDS** OR **TREASURES IN HEAVEN**, NOT EARTHLY REWARDS, FOR HELPING OR SHARING WITH THE **POOR AND NEEDY** AND ALL OTHER GOOD DEEDS**!!
Matthew 6:1-4; 19-21: Jesus says, "When you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and the streets, to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you**GIVE TO THE NEEDY**, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret will **REWARD** you!"... "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth where moth and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves **TREASURES IN HEAVEN**, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and thieves do not break in and steal. For where your **TREASURE** is, there your **HEART** will be also!"
I Timothy 6:17-19: Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be **GENEROUS AND WILLING TO SHARE**. In this way they will lay up **TREASURE** for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, do that they may take hold of life that is truly life!
Luke 14:33,34: Jesus says, "When you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be **BLESSED**! Although they cannot repay you, you will be **REPAID AT THE RESURRECTION** of the righteous!"
Romans 12:13: Share with the Lord's people who are in need. Practice hospitality.
Ephesians 4:28: Work, doing something useful with your hands, so that you have **SOMETHING TO SHARE** with those in need! {**TO EARN ETERNAL HEAVENLY REWARDS AND NOT TO BECCOME PROSPEROUS**!!}
Romans 12:20,21: If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink... Do not be overcome by evil, but **OVERCOME EVIL WITH GOOD**!
Luke 11:33,34: Jesus says, "Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a **TREASURE** IN HEAVEN** {Not Treasures on Earth} that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. For where your **TREASURE** is, there your **HEART** will be also!"
2 Corinthians 9:6,7,9: Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. {With **TREASURES IN HEAVEN**} Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not relunctantly or under compulsion, for **GOD LOVES A CHEERFUL GIVER**!....As it is written: "They have scattered their gifts to the poor; their righteouness **ENDURES FOREVER**!"
Hebrews 13:16: Do not forget to do good and to **SHARE WITH OTHERS**, for with such sacrifices the Lord is pleased.
James 2:15,16: Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, "Go in peace; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead!
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Isaiah 58:10: “ If you pour yourself out for the hungry and satisfy the desire of the afflicted, then shall your light rise in the darkness and your gloom be as the noonday. ”
Matthew 5:42: Jesus says, “Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you. "
Acts 20:35: “In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, It is more blessed to give than to receive. ”
Proverbs 19:17: “Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will repay him for his deed. ”
Deuteronomy 15:7-8, 10-11: "If there is among you a poor man of your brethren, within any of the gates in your land which the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart nor shut your hand from your poor brother, but you shall open your hand wide to him and willingly lend him sufficient for his need, whatever he needs. You shall surely give to him, and your heart should not be grieved when you give to him, because for this thing the Lord your God will bless you in all your works and in all to which you put your hand. For the poor will never cease from the land; therefore I command you, saying, ‘You shall open your hand wide to your brother, to your poor and your needy, in your land.”
Psalm 41:1: “Blessed is he who considers the poor; The Lord will deliver him in time of trouble.”
Isaiah 61:1: “The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me, because the Lord has anointed Me to preach good tidings to the poor; He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives and the opening of the prison to those who are bound.”
James 2:2-4: “For if there should come into your assembly a man with gold rings, in fine apparel, and there should also come in a poor man in filthy clothes, and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say to him, ‘You sit here in a good place,’ and say to the poor man, ‘You stand there,’ or ‘Sit here at my footstool.’ Have you not shown partiality among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?”
13. Matthew 25:31-46: Jesus says, "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left. Then the king will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?’ And the king will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.’ Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they also will answer, ‘Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?’ Then he will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
However, if you check the budgets of the Evangelical churches they only have about 1 percent for the poor and about 40 percent for the church buildings and their amenities!
**THERE ARE ONLY TWO VERSES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT FOR GIVING TO PREACHERS AND TEACHERS AND OVER THIRTY VERSES FOR HELPING THE POOR AND *ZERO VERSES** FOR GIVING TO CHURCH BUILDINGS SINCE THE EARLY CHURCH HAD CHURCH IN THEIR HOUSES AND HOMES**
Posted : 18 Oct, 2019 08:07 AM
Average expenses for Evangelical churches:
50 %: For personal salaries and expenses for full time pastors, parsonage, assistant pastors, guest speakers, evangelists.
30 %: For property expenses such as church mortgage, electricity, insurance, sound systems and other amenities.
7 %: Payments to denominations
7 %: Program expenses for hymnals, Sunday school lessons materials, weekly programs, choir gowns, snacks and coffee after church, etc
5 %: Payments to missionaries as sponsors.
**Total 99%** leaving 1% for everything else including helping the poor.
TOTH3M4X: Do you work so that you have something to share with those in need as God's Word commands??? We are all thrilled that you tithe to your church since the elders decide where the money goes; but we are a little disappointed that you don't care if your church gives anything to the poor and needy???
TOTH3M4X: Do you believe that it is OK that the average Evangelical church in the USA gives about 1 percent to the poor and needy. Unfortunately there are many who believe that the only important part of the Gospel is that many are saved and go to heaven and that they go to church 2 times a week and pay there tithes to the church.
Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations.. Teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU**!. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
John 14:23: Anyone who loves Me will **OBEY MY TEACHING**. My Father will love them, and We will come to them and make our home with them!!"
TOTH3M4X quote: "Who are the poor to you? Who are the needy? I would suggest that before God we are all needy. "???
Ephesians 4:28: Work, doing something useful with your hands, so that you have **SOMETHING TO SHARE** with those in need! {**TO EARN ETERNAL HEAVENLY REWARDS AND NOT TO BECCOME PROSPEROUS**!!}
We are not saved by works but if you have been born from above you will give much more than 1 percent to the poor and much less than about 40 percent for church buildings. God's born from above follow God's commands for helping the poor with the Divine hope of countless heavenly eternal rewards for faithful and loving service!!
If a Christian gives all his money to a church that gives ZERO to 1 or 2 percent to the poor according to God's Word you are **SINNING**. Instead a Christion should give at least 20 percent of his total giving to the poor personally and then contribute the rest of His giving to his church that only gives about 1 percent to the poor. Or maybe he should join a church that gives about 20 percent to the poor. But he may have an extremely hard time finding such a church in the USA!!
Ephesians 2:8,9: For it is by **GRACE** you have been saved, through **FAITH**—and this **NOT FROM YOURSELVES**, it is the **GIFT OF GOD**—not by works. So that no one can boast. For we are **GOD'S WORKMANSHIP**, created in Christ Jesus to do **GOOD WORKS**, which God prepared in advance for us to do!
John 15:16: Jesus says, You did not choose Me, but I **CHOSE YOU**and appointed you so that you might bear **FRUIT**--**FRUIT** that will last!!
I Peter 2:9: But you are a **CHOSEN PEOPLE**, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession, that you might declare the praise of Him who **CALLED YOU** out of darkness into His wonderful light!!
Luke 11:33,34: Jesus says, "Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a **TREASURE** IN HEAVEN** {Not Treasures on Earth} that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. For where your **TREASURE** is, there your **HEART** will be also!"
Matthew 6:1-4; 19-21: Jesus says, "When you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and the streets, to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you**GIVE TO THE NEEDY**, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret will **REWARD** you!"... "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth where moth and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves **TREASURES IN HEAVEN**, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and thieves do not break in and steal. For where your **TREASURE** is, there your **HEART** will be also!"
Luke 14:33,34: Jesus says, "When you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be **BLESSED**! Although they cannot repay you, you will be **REPAID AT THE RESURRECTION** of the righteous!"
Romans 12:13: Share with the Lord's people who are in need. Practice hospitality.
Ephesians 4:28: Work, doing something useful with your hands, so that you have **SOMETHING TO SHARE** with those in need! {**TO EARN ETERNAL HEAVENLY REWARDS AND NOT TO BECCOME PROSPEROUS**!!}
2 Corinthians 9:6,7,9: Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. {With **TREASURES IN HEAVEN**} Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for **GOD LOVES A CHEERFUL GIVER**!....As it is written: "They have scattered their gifts **TO THE POOR**; their righteousness **ENDURES FOREVER**!"
We are not saved by works but if you have been born from above you will give much more than 1 percent to the poor and much less than about 40 percent for church buildings. God's born from above follow God's commands for helping the poor with the Divine hope of countless heavenly eternal rewards for faithful and loving service!!
Matthew 25:31-46: Jesus says, "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left. Then the king will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?’ And the king will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.’ Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they also will answer, ‘Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?’ Then he will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
If a Christian gives all his money to a church that gives ZERO to 1 or 2 percent to the poor according to God's Word you are **SINNING**. Instead a Christion should give at least 20 percent of his total giving to the poor personally and then contribute the rest of His giving to his church that only gives about 1 percent to the poor. Or maybe he should join a church that gives about 20 percent to the poor. But he may have an extremely hard time finding such a church in the USA!!
**THERE ARE ONLY TWO VERSES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT FOR GIVING TO PREACHERS AND TEACHERS AND OVER THIRTY VERSES FOR HELPING THE POOR AND *ZERO VERSES** FOR GIVING TO CHURCH BUILDINGS SINCE THE EARLY CHURCH HAD CHURCH IN THEIR HOUSES AND HOMES**
Posted : 18 Oct, 2019 08:19 AM
Source? And even many of the things you mentioned would benefit the poor. Are you suggesting the poor aren't allowed to attend those churches and take advantage of some of the mentioned resources?
**THERE ARE ONLY TWO VERSES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT FOR GIVING TO PREACHERS AND TEACHERS AND OVER THIRTY VERSES FOR HELPING THE POOR AND *ZERO VERSES** FOR GIVING TO CHURCH BUILDINGS SINCE THE EARLY CHURCH HAD CHURCH IN THEIR HOUSES AND HOMES**
Posted : 18 Oct, 2019 12:55 PM
TOTH3M4X quote:
"Many of the things you mentioned would benefit the poor. Are you suggesting the poor aren't allowed to attend those churches and take advantage of some of the mentioned resources?"
TOTH3M4X: There is nothing in the average annual budget of Evangelical churches below that would give any material benefits or money to the poor!
Average expenses for Evangelical churches:
50 %: For personal salaries and expenses for full time pastors, parsonage, assistant pastors, guest speakers, evangelists.
30 %: For property expenses such as church mortgage, electricity, insurance, sound systems and other amenities.
7 %: Payments to denominations
7 %: Program expenses for hymnals, Sunday school lessons materials, weekly programs, choir gowns, snacks and coffee after church, etc
5 %: Payments to missionaries as sponsors.
**Total 99%** leaving 1% for everything else including helping the poor.
TOTH3M4X: Do you work so that you have **SOMETHING TO SHARE WITH THOSE IN NEED** as God's Word commands in Ephesians 4:28 below??? We are all thrilled that you tithe to your church since the elders decide where the money goes; but we are a little disappointed that you don't care if your church gives anything to the poor and needy???
TOTH3M4X: Do you believe that it is OK that the average Evangelical church in the USA gives about 1 percent to the poor and needy. Unfortunately there are many who believe that the only important part of the Gospel is that many are saved and go to heaven and that they go to church 2 times a week and pay there tithes to the church.
Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations.. Teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU**!. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
John 14:23: Anyone who loves Me will **OBEY MY TEACHING**. My Father will love them, and We will come to them and make our home with them!!"
TOTH3M4X quote: "Who are the poor to you? Who are the needy? I would suggest that before God we are all needy. "???
Ephesians 4:28: Work, doing something useful with your hands, so that you have **SOMETHING TO SHARE** with those in need! {**TO EARN ETERNAL HEAVENLY REWARDS AND NOT TO BECCOME PROSPEROUS**!!}
We are not saved by works but if you have been born from above you will give much more than 1 percent to the poor and much less than about 30 percent for church buildings. God's born from above follow God's commands for helping the poor with the Divine hope of countless heavenly eternal rewards for faithful and loving service!!
If a Christian gives all his money to a church that gives ZERO to 1 or 2 percent to the poor according to God's Word you are **SINNING**. Instead a Christion should give at least 20 percent of his total giving to the poor personally and then contribute the rest of His giving to his church that only gives about 1 percent to the poor. Or maybe he should join a church that gives about 20 percent to the poor. But he may have an extremely hard time finding such a church in the USA!!
Ephesians 2:8,9: For it is by **GRACE** you have been saved, through **FAITH**—and this **NOT FROM YOURSELVES**, it is the **GIFT OF GOD**—not by works. So that no one can boast. For we are **GOD'S WORKMANSHIP**, created in Christ Jesus to do **GOOD WORKS**, which God prepared in advance for us to do!
John 15:16: Jesus says, You did not choose Me, but I **CHOSE YOU**and appointed you so that you might bear **FRUIT**--**FRUIT** that will last!!
I Peter 2:9: But you are a **CHOSEN PEOPLE**, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession, that you might declare the praise of Him who **CALLED YOU** out of darkness into His wonderful light!!
Luke 11:33,34: Jesus says, "Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a **TREASURE** IN HEAVEN** {Not Treasures on Earth} that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. For where your **TREASURE** is, there your **HEART** will be also!"
Matthew 6:1-4; 19-21: Jesus says, "When you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and the streets, to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you**GIVE TO THE NEEDY**, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret will **REWARD** you!"... "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth where moth and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves **TREASURES IN HEAVEN**, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and thieves do not break in and steal. For where your **TREASURE** is, there your **HEART** will be also!"
Luke 14:33,34: Jesus says, "When you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be **BLESSED**! Although they cannot repay you, you will be **REPAID AT THE RESURRECTION** of the righteous!"
Romans 12:13: Share with the Lord's people who are in need. Practice hospitality.
Ephesians 4:28: Work, doing something useful with your hands, so that you have **SOMETHING TO SHARE** with those in need! {**TO EARN ETERNAL HEAVENLY REWARDS AND NOT TO BECCOME PROSPEROUS**!!}
2 Corinthians 9:6,7,9: Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. {With **TREASURES IN HEAVEN**} Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for **GOD LOVES A CHEERFUL GIVER**!....As it is written: "They have scattered their gifts **TO THE POOR**; their righteousness **ENDURES FOREVER**!"
We are not saved by works but if you have been born from above you will give much more than 1 percent to the poor and much less than about 40 percent for church buildings. God's born from above follow God's commands for helping the poor with the Divine hope of countless heavenly eternal rewards for faithful and loving service!!
Matthew 25:31-46: Jesus says, "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left. Then the king will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?’ And the king will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.’ Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they also will answer, ‘Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?’ Then he will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
If a Christian gives all his money to a church that gives ZERO to 1 or 2 percent to the poor according to God's Word you are **SINNING**. Instead a Christion should give at least 20 percent of his total giving to the poor personally and then contribute the rest of His giving to his church that only gives about 1 percent to the poor. Or maybe he should join a church that gives about 20 percent to the poor. But he may have an extremely hard time finding such a church in the USA!!
I went to Evangelical Christian colleges for 4 years which had weekday mandatory preachers sermons and I never heard even one word concerning giving to the poor. Apparently they do not believe it is part of the NT Gospel???
**THERE ARE ONLY TWO VERSES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT FOR GIVING TO PREACHERS AND TEACHERS AND OVER THIRTY VERSES FOR HELPING THE POOR AND *ZERO VERSES** FOR GIVING TO CHURCH BUILDINGS SINCE THE EARLY CHURCH HAD CHURCH IN THEIR HOUSES AND HOMES**
Posted : 18 Oct, 2019 03:23 PM
prophetic,
But you are the source for those numbers... As such, there is no way to validate your claim or reason for me to take it seriously. And still no scripture stating we "must give 20 percent." Maybe you mean well, but it's unlikely anybody is going change their view if you don't have a basis for convincing them too, besides you not personally liking that people aren't directly giving a certain about of money directly to the poor.
**THERE ARE ONLY TWO VERSES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT FOR GIVING TO PREACHERS AND TEACHERS AND OVER THIRTY VERSES FOR HELPING THE POOR AND *ZERO VERSES** FOR GIVING TO CHURCH BUILDINGS SINCE THE EARLY CHURCH HAD CHURCH IN THEIR HOUSES AND HOMES**
Posted : 18 Oct, 2019 04:24 PM
TOTH3M4X: Do you work so that you have **SOMETHING TO SHARE WITH THOSE IN NEED** as God's Word commands in Ephesians 4:28 below??? We are all thrilled that you tithe to your church since the elders decide where the money goes; but we are a little disappointed that you don't care if your church gives anything to the poor and needy???
TOTH3M4X: Do you believe that it is OK that the average Evangelical church in the USA gives about 1 percent to the poor and needy. Unfortunately there are many who believe that the only important part of the Gospel is that many are saved and go to heaven and that they go to church 2 times a week and pay there tithes to the church.
Matthew 28:18-20: Jesus says, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations.. Teaching them to **OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU**!. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
John 14:23: Anyone who loves Me will **OBEY MY TEACHING**. My Father will love them, and We will come to them and make our home with them!!"
TOTH3M4X quote: "Who are the poor to you? Who are the needy? I would suggest that before God we are all needy. "???
Ephesians 4:28: Work, doing something useful with your hands, so that you have **SOMETHING TO SHARE** with those in need! {**TO EARN ETERNAL HEAVENLY REWARDS AND NOT TO BECCOME PROSPEROUS**!!}
We are not saved by works but if you have been born from above you will give much more than 1 percent to the poor and much less than about 30 percent for church buildings. God's born from above follow God's commands for helping the poor with the Divine hope of countless heavenly eternal rewards for faithful and loving service!!
If a Christian gives all his money to a church that gives ZERO to 1 or 2 percent to the poor according to God's Word you are **SINNING**. Instead a Christion should give at least 20 percent of his total giving to the poor personally and then contribute the rest of His giving to his church that only gives about 1 percent to the poor. Or maybe he should join a church that gives about 20 percent to the poor. But he may have an extremely hard time finding such a church in the USA!!
Ephesians 2:8,9: For it is by **GRACE** you have been saved, through **FAITH**—and this **NOT FROM YOURSELVES**, it is the **GIFT OF GOD**—not by works. So that no one can boast. For we are **GOD'S WORKMANSHIP**, created in Christ Jesus to do **GOOD WORKS**, which God prepared in advance for us to do!
John 15:16: Jesus says, You did not choose Me, but I **CHOSE YOU**and appointed you so that you might bear **FRUIT**--**FRUIT** that will last!!
I Peter 2:9: But you are a **CHOSEN PEOPLE**, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's special possession, that you might declare the praise of Him who **CALLED YOU** out of darkness into His wonderful light!!
Luke 11:33,34: Jesus says, "Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a **TREASURE** IN HEAVEN** {Not Treasures on Earth} that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. For where your **TREASURE** is, there your **HEART** will be also!"
Matthew 6:1-4; 19-21: Jesus says, "When you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and the streets, to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you**GIVE TO THE NEEDY**, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret will **REWARD** you!"... "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth where moth and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves **TREASURES IN HEAVEN**, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and thieves do not break in and steal. For where your **TREASURE** is, there your **HEART** will be also!"
Luke 14:33,34: Jesus says, "When you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be **BLESSED**! Although they cannot repay you, you will be **REPAID AT THE RESURRECTION** of the righteous!"
Romans 12:13: Share with the Lord's people who are in need. Practice hospitality.
Ephesians 4:28: Work, doing something useful with your hands, so that you have **SOMETHING TO SHARE** with those in need! {**TO EARN ETERNAL HEAVENLY REWARDS AND NOT TO BECCOME PROSPEROUS**!!}
2 Corinthians 9:6,7,9: Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. {With **TREASURES IN HEAVEN**} Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for **GOD LOVES A CHEERFUL GIVER**!....As it is written: "They have scattered their gifts **TO THE POOR**; their righteousness **ENDURES FOREVER**!"
We are not saved by works but if you have been born from above you will give much more than 1 percent to the poor and much less than about 40 percent for church buildings. God's born from above follow God's commands for helping the poor with the Divine hope of countless heavenly eternal rewards for faithful and loving service!!
Matthew 25:31-46: Jesus says, "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left. Then the king will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?’ And the king will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.’ Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they also will answer, ‘Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?’ Then he will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
If a Christian gives all his money to a church that gives ZERO to 1 or 2 percent to the poor according to God's Word you are **SINNING**. Instead a Christion should give at least 20 percent of his total giving to the poor personally and then contribute the rest of His giving to his church that only gives about 1 percent to the poor. Or maybe he should join a church that gives about 20 percent to the poor. But he may have an extremely hard time finding such a church in the USA!!
I went to Evangelical Christian colleges for 4 years which had weekday mandatory preachers sermons and I never heard even one word concerning giving to the poor. Apparently they do not believe it is part of the NT Gospel???
Acts 4:32: All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but **THEY SHARED **EVERYTHING** THEY HAD**!!
Acts 2:44,45: All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions **TO GIVE TO EVERYONE WHO HAD NEED**!
Luke 18:20-25: Jesus said to the rich man, "You still lack one thing. **SELL WHAT YOU HAVE AND GIVE TO THE POOR**, and you will have **TREASURE IN HEAVEN**. Then come, **FOLLOW ME**. When he heard this he became very sad, because he was very wealthy.
**THERE ARE ONLY TWO VERSES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT FOR GIVING TO PREACHERS AND TEACHERS AND OVER THIRTY VERSES FOR HELPING THE POOR AND *ZERO VERSES** FOR GIVING TO CHURCH BUILDINGS SINCE THE EARLY CHURCH HAD CHURCH IN THEIR HOUSES AND HOMES**
**THERE ARE ONLY TWO VERSES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT FOR GIVING TO PREACHERS AND TEACHERS AND OVER THIRTY VERSES FOR HELPING THE POOR AND *ZERO VERSES** FOR GIVING TO CHURCH BUILDINGS SINCE THE EARLY CHURCH HAD CHURCH IN THEIR HOUSES AND HOMES**
Posted : 19 Oct, 2019 09:40 AM
Richard, your posts generate more questions than answers.
For one, where are you getting your data information?
Second. Are you suggesting all ”evangelical” churches operate lock step with one another as if each and every church assumes your percentages?
Third, what college did you attend for 4 years? Or at least name the denomination.
Fourth observation, you’re adding to scripture with your 20% giving and other non-biblical notations that are customarily surrounded by Bible quotes as if quoting large sections of scripture sanctifies your false ideas sandwiched in between.
I’m glad everyone doesn’t follow your make-up-as-you-go tradition of percentages. One well known “evangelical”, in fact, gives away 90% of his wealth.
Fifth, I know of some Christian’s and pastors who give much on their own to help the poor AND independently of offerings and giving done by their churches.
And finally,
Sixly, are you in regular attendance with a fellowship of believers of whom you are accountable? Is there a biblical structure to this fellowship? Does it consist of teaching and administrative elders?
I hope you’re not following the maverick pagan type “christian” who “attends” a make believe “church” like the, “church-in-the-wilderness” or the, “church-under-the-clear-blue-sky” are you Richard?
In other words, some maverick “Christians” think it’s all about them with God as a side pocket, an invited guest who is lucky just to follow along.
Sorta like the “just-me-and-God church” a church-of-your-own-making” denomination. In other words, No body but me and “god” are good enough to attend.
Are you a church of your own Richard ?
Sometimes people who like to fault the church because they just don’t love those for whom Christ died. Christ died a motley bunch, not easy to love.
So these anti-christian’s just separate themselves and go independent—-like all by themselves. Sorta like the monks in their pristine monasteries because they can’t be holy around all those bad influences.
Trouble is, no OT or NT apostle, saint/believer went it alone. The most holy of them joined in with others encouraging them no matter their stage of sanctification
I don’t really expect you to name the college or its denominator nor do I expect an answer any question I raised above but I’ll keep asking anyway.
**THERE ARE ONLY TWO VERSES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT FOR GIVING TO PREACHERS AND TEACHERS AND OVER THIRTY VERSES FOR HELPING THE POOR AND *ZERO VERSES** FOR GIVING TO CHURCH BUILDINGS SINCE THE EARLY CHURCH HAD CHURCH IN THEIR HOUSES AND HOMES**
Posted : 19 Oct, 2019 09:44 AM
Should have been, Christ died for a motley bunch not easy to love
**THERE ARE ONLY TWO VERSES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT FOR GIVING TO PREACHERS AND TEACHERS AND OVER THIRTY VERSES FOR HELPING THE POOR AND *ZERO VERSES** FOR GIVING TO CHURCH BUILDINGS SINCE THE EARLY CHURCH HAD CHURCH IN THEIR HOUSES AND HOMES**
Posted : 19 Oct, 2019 10:55 AM
Oh, and Richard, what about some of us who TOTALLY dedicate several years at a time of our lives, without salary, to either assisting the poor and/or to spreading the gospel?? Are we bound by your ridicules extra-biblical rule makings and your personal religious traditions?
**THERE ARE ONLY TWO VERSES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT FOR GIVING TO PREACHERS AND TEACHERS AND OVER THIRTY VERSES FOR HELPING THE POOR AND *ZERO VERSES** FOR GIVING TO CHURCH BUILDINGS SINCE THE EARLY CHURCH HAD CHURCH IN THEIR HOUSES AND HOMES**
Posted : 19 Oct, 2019 10:59 AM
Little David: I attended Wheaton College, Calvin College and William Jennings Bryan College who all had mandatory daily chapel services on weekdays and attended Evangelical Southern Baptist churches for many years and I never heard even one word about giving to the poor!! It is possible that many Evangelicals do not believe that giving to the poor is an important part of the Gospel??
Little David: So happy to hear that you and some of your aquaintances give richly to the poor. You surely will be richly rewarded in Heaven!!
Matthew 25:31-46: Jesus says, "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left. Then the king will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and **YOU GAVE ME FOOD**, I was thirsty and you **GAVE ME SOMETHING TO DRINK**, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and **YOU GAVE ME CLOTHING**, I was sick and **YOU TOOK CARE OF ME**, I was in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and **GAVE YOU FOOD**, or thirsty and **GAVE YOU SOMETHING TO DRINK**? And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and **GAVE YOU CLOTHING**? And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and **VISITED YOU**?’ And the king will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.’ Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and **YOU GAVE ME NO FOOD**, I was thirsty and **YOU GAVE ME NOTHING TO DRINK**, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and **YOU DID NOT GIVE ME CLOTHING**, sick and in prison and **YOU DID NOT VISIT ME**.’ Then they also will answer, ‘Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?’ Then he will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Acts 10:30-32: Cornelius said, "Three days ago I was in my house praying at this hour, at three in the afternoon suddenly a man in shining clothes stood before me and said, "Cornelius, God has heard your prayer and remembered **YOUR GIFTS TO THE POOR**. Send to Joppa for Simon who is also called Peter!!
Acts 4:32: All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but **THEY SHARED **EVERYTHING** THEY HAD**!!
Acts 2:44,45: All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions **TO GIVE TO EVERYONE WHO HAD NEED**!
Luke 18:20-25: Jesus said to the rich man, "You still lack one thing. **SELL WHAT YOU HAVE AND GIVE TO THE POOR**, and you will have **TREASURE IN HEAVEN**. Then come, **FOLLOW ME**. When he heard this he became very sad, because he was very wealthy.
Ephesians 4:28: Work, doing something useful with your hands, so that you have **SOMETHING TO SHARE** with those in need! {**TO EARN ETERNAL HEAVENLY REWARDS AND NOT TO BECCOME PROSPEROUS**!!}
2 Corinthians 9:6,7,9: Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. {With **TREASURES IN HEAVEN**} Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for **GOD LOVES A CHEERFUL GIVER**!....As it is written: "They have scattered their **GIFTS TO THE POOR**; their righteousness **ENDURES FOREVER**!"
