A young man emailed me on this site and questioned my calling to be a youth pastor because he said that women should not be allowed to be pastors. He quoted 1 Corinthians 11 and 1 Timothy 2 as his reasons. What are your thoughts out there? I'll post my response later, but I was just curious to hear what BIBLICAL references those of you might have towards this topic!
I have contention with your conclusion. There already exists a male and female partnership. Jesus is the bridegroom and the bride is us, his Church. This relationship is made clear throughout the Bible (Mt 9:15, Eph 5:25, 2Cor 2:11, multiple times in Revelations).
The all-male priesthood serves as substance and physical image of Christ. It is important to note that a male, St. Matthias, not Mary the Mother or Mary Magdalene, was appointed as the new 12th apostle, the predecessors of the priests and ministers of the sacraments.
That said, women perform many wonderful works in leadership of the Church. As stated previously, the 3 Marys were selected to share the message and organize the apostles for Christ's rising and appearance in Galilee. Since, some of the most well-known personal revelations (miracles) have featured women and women play important roles as church administration, scholarly and theology, evangelizing, and mothering.
Praise the LORD JESUS CHRIST. Just to add a note: Nowhere in scripture do we see the congregation broken up to where women teach women and women teach youth.
In scripture, during time of teaching the whole congregation is together with women and children and the man is the teacher.
That's just it. GOD'S WORD rules and there is no vote.
Women take your places in the home and in the House of GOD. Men take yours.
In Titus when it spake of women teaching women (writen by the same Paul who said in Timothy that he didn't allow women to teach in obedience to scripture), it was speaking of a different kind of teaching (check the Greek). This was not a public teaching in a church setting, but rather teaching as in an elder woman taking a younger woman under her arms and instructing her in the ways of life.
One teaching is Public (group setting) and the other is Private (more of one on one).
Women's liberation has put many in captivity. GOD has an oder and we all experience Great Freedom and Joy when we stick to that order; and great pain and bondage when we don't.
All of the 70 elders in the OT were Male. All of the Apostles named in the NT were Male.
We must not blaspheme the Holy WORD of GOD. GOD gives none the authority to change the Rules. I believe this greatly contibutes to the Homosexual Agenda. We must make clear man is man...woman is woman. Peariod!
GOD's WORD is not to be changed by society. The oder of the House of GOD remains the same until the LORD returns for HIS bride.
It's pass time for men to Stop being fearful of women as Elijah ran from Jezabel and stand up for the Truth.
This is where Adam ruined the world obeying the voice of a woman over the voice of GOD, WHO made both man and woman.
If we seek to please people then we are not the servants of CHRIST (Gal 1:10). Let GOD'S WORD be your final Authority. Not some man nor woman whether in Church or some Bilble College. GOD is Jealous and HIS NAME is Jealous. "...Yea, let GOD be true, but every man a liar." (Romans 3:4)
"For who hath stood in the counsel of the LORD, and hath perceived and heard HIS WORD? who hath marked HIS WORD, and heard IT?" (Jer 23:18)
Thank YOU LORD for YOUR Holy WORD. I love YOU and IT, forever. Alleluia! Amen.
"For ever, O LORD, THY WORD is settled in Heaven." (Ps 119:89). Amen.
dear folks, this is good. we are having a good discussion here.. cd and thadias, thanks. i appreciate your input here.. and i agree with you that a woman should not be preaching in the pulpit.. the sanctuary... as you know i said that it could be a possibility that is permissabe for a woman to pastor and teach the youth and possibly the womens ministry... now you both disagree with that idea.. and thats cool.. but i still have questions..since probably in the olden days of church they im guessing only had the sanctuary .. maybe someone can tell us if that is so or not.. what i mean is they prolly didnt have a side building or down the hallway set apart from the main congregation. that they used for sunday school. or to teach the youth or womens ministry .. as im figurin they all went together in one building the sanctuary.. that held the congregation. i hope someone can shed some light on that subject for us..
i am also very interisted in both of your churches. tell me more about them please.. does your chiurch have those side buildings or even say down the hallway rooms for the teaching of sunday school or for the youth ministry or for the womens ministry? if so who teaches them? male or female? also do you have a choir? are women allowed in your choirs? im just tryin to get a good feel for your church here.. as im not a very educated man. so i have to ask questions... are women allowed to speak in your chuirch? or do they remain totally silent and submissive the whole time? and im not speakin of speaking to the whole congregation up in the pulpit... or teaching the men there.. im just wantin to know if theyre allowed to speak at all in your churches?
i did look up the greek in scriptures that were used in 1timothy and in titus.. and what i saw neither one of the teaching meanings said anything about only one on one teaching nor did it say it had to be done in a group..
it told of the older women teaching the younger women good things.. and how to be in their family.. and to their husbands.. and the other was about not allowing a woman to teach a man nor have authority over a man in the church.. and that verse definitely spoke to a man and not a boy...
so i wonder where did the older women meet at to teach the younger women.. did they all meet at someones house? where? was it at the church when no one else was there? i hope someone can help us out on the history .. i know so many questions but i do have a curious mind. hehe thanks yawl
The early church met in homes. When the first churches were created, many congregants were involved in individual or collective prayers, stopping and communally sharing in the eucharistic prayer.
In my church, we have a slightly different understanding of the role of the priest. They maybe church leaders and guides (when they issue the homily), but during the Mass they perform the role of Christ in instituting the sacrament. They have consecrated their lives to perform this role. Likewise, lay faithful are encouraged to offer their lives, prayers and talents as sacrifice to the lord. Thus, during Mass, women can serve as altar servers, readers of bible readings, eucharist ministers, choir singers and leaders, etc. As well as teaching the youth, women and adult converts. Some women have even taught future priests in seminaries.
Revelation of the WORD comes not from just reading and studying but through sincere praying and fasting and seeking GOD on the issues. GOD has to open our understanding to the scriptures. Lk 24:45
Now with all of these involved, you should find that women can sing in the church as Miriam in the church in the wilderness. We also see them praying with the congregation in Scripture. Them not speaking has to to with asking questions/giving answers during the time of teaching.
I have no comment about what church I attend personally, because that's not relevant. GOD'S WORD rules. This has been one of the issues that I've debated several pastors concerning. There are many things in churches today as a whole that contradict the WORD of GOD. We are not to just accept things as they are but we are to glorify and stand up for the truth.
Since 1995, by the grace of GOD, I've sought GOD on this topic, and i can tell you that it all didn't come clear in one night and not with prayer and fasting and much study on the subject. Revelation from CHRIST is Relevant.
Particular when it comes to the Greek definitions of teach. Peace and Praise the LORD and SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST. Amen.
dear folks, john o hey man thanks for the link. i will go check it out today..
cd, thanks for bein open and honest about your church..
and thaddias, i do find it quite revelant as to what your church does and am very interisted in knowing about your church.. i didnt ask you to name your church. just tell us about it as even amongst diffirent denominations they do do things diffirently sometimes..
dear john o ,, that was a very good read.. and im in agreement with it.. though it still didnt addres my question of the possibility of a woman bein say a leader of the youth groups or a leader of the womens ministry.. it did however take away being the pastor and teaching the men. as is scriptural..
dear thaddeus, i wanna ask you once again and ill be point blank with ya.. does your church have a womens ministry? if so ,who is in charge of it and leads it? man or woman? does your church have a youth group or ministry? if so who is in charge of it or leads it? man or woman?
its only fair that i give you my answers as to what my home church does as well. we have a youth ministry which so far has been lead by a man.. and we also have a womens ministry and it is lead by a woman.. she is not a pastor though and isnt called one..
in the sanctuary where the main congregations is being fed. there are only men pastors allowed.. because theyre teaching to the men there as the scriptures states.
now even all the churches ive visited they all are set up the same way..
now none of the groups where women teach are done in the main sanctuary.. all in the side buildings or down the long hallways..
so would it not be very hypocrytical of me to teach others that a woman cant teach the youth or womens miniistry at all in her church when the church i support allows it ..just not teachin in the main sanctuary to the men as scripture states..
