Biblical perspectives on race and racism - really broad topic but I thought it would be interesting to let this discussion take its own course!
Have you ever been surprised or taken aback to hear christians refer to themselves or others in terms you thought were questionable for someone proclaiming Christ?
Example? OK. I have met several christians who refer to themselves as "redneck" or the "N" word or other disparaging terms...and proudly I might add.
We all know that perception - how one views himself/herself in the world -carries different meanings in and out of context. There is no debate about the fact that some will argue that using such language to describe oneself or even others is fine depending on HOW it is meant. Others will argue that there should NEVER be a time when real born again christians should "go there". Thats not the question.
The question is NOT so much "Is it ok"? The questions are:
What do you understand the Bible to say our standards should be regarding issues of race and racism.
Is it true that out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh even when joking with others in so called "like company"?
If it is true then what lives in our hearts and is it acceptable to God?
These are the type questions that you may choose to discuss here...I don't know...its your discussion - lets have it! Personally, I think this is one of many "hot button" topics that people are generally afraid of even in churches...In fact many who read this post will simply blow it off making as simple (and cliche) as, "God doesn't see color. Period. End of story." We get that. But how do we explain that Sunday mornings is the most segregated (separated) time in our great nation as people tend to worship with others most like themselves. I'm not saying this is wrong or right...its YOUR discussion! I'm just observing the facts and asking you whats behind them? Why aren't we more integrated on Sunday morning than any other day of the week? Is it acceptable - TO GOD? Does it depend on a persons's heart? Again, if so, whats in that persons heart? Does it depend on a persons ability to be comfortable with others - their ideas and views which most certainly will be as diverse as the experience of being...say Afircan American, Native American, or Spanish American for example.
Look heres the thing: We can stick our collective heads in the sand and blow this topic off but we have to deal with the facts: America by and large a "christian" based country whose history is mottled with mistreatment of others presenting differing perspectives on everything from religion, race, politics etc...We are the "melting pot" but there are lumps in the pot. Notably, being a predominantly christian based nation, Christian voices on issues of abortion, politics and even race have more often than not set the direction and tone of our nation. So how is it then that all that is needed to divide Christians along racial lines is something akin to an "OJ" trial or an "Obama presidency" or for that matter a "border patrol" issue". Isn't it true that true christians (people who follow Christ) are expected to put aside differences our worldly counterparts use to divide and come together? Aren't we tasked/required by God to step outside of our "family history/teachings" pick up our crosses and follow Christ example?
Even more simply: How do we feel as individuals when we find ourselves surrounded by those different from ourselves? Personally, I always cringe when I go into our chatrooms and realize ethnic jokes are being told...I wonder how will new babes view this? Atheists? Are they confused? Hurt orangered by our conduct...which brings up another question - integrity (what we do when no one is watching - except God of course! hmmmm)
Is it that we think God will simply wink at our choice of putting HIS word on THIS topic somewhere on the list of "nice but not necessary" - maybe we just dont care.
I don't know what do you think?
**Please enjoy the discussion and add your comments but remember THIS is a christian website! Please do not use disparaging language or inflammatory remarks intended (or not) to cause injury to another. This is an invitation to discuss a touchy topic that needs attention in my opinion - not simply for the sake of debate...but so we can all check on our own lives and line up with Gods word in this area like any other.
At the end of the discussion we'll take a look - together at what Gods standards and expectations are in HIS word, not our interpretation but HIS word plain and simple.
If you are found to be making nasty comments or being "ugly" please note: You will be booted because this is website that honors God. It might get a little dicey as we explore, but let's honor God family!
Ready? Ok lets hear it!
Don't know where to begin?
Some subject you might want to address:
Do certain American groups deem themselves more patriotic or more christian than others professing Christ?
Why do some Americans feel God was created with the birth of our nation ie...God must see things as we see them 'cause we're Americans and no other peoples existed (muslim or otherwise) before us so God must be on our side and no one elses right?
Is it ok to mock/mimic those in other faiths?
Why do some christians have problems with the names other faiths use to address the God they have known like oh...say Allah? Jehovah?...
Ok you get it...play nice:MrT::excited::ROFL:and lets get'erdone!
Racism will never be defeated as long as those who fight it keep fanning the flames.
:glow:
Dear Samson - First let me assure you that as far as I am concerned there is absolutely nothing to be sorry for!!! You said nothing wrong in my opinion and never could!
You see brother I am not one to "brow beat" someone into seeing things as I do. Your opinions and thoughts are just and valuable as anyone elses and I for one value open dialogue even when people disagree...its how we all learn my brother! So no apology needed here...I just hope you will continue to share your thoughts as will others. When humans quit seeing others points of view thats when we get into being disrespectful of others, dictatorial behaviors and dangerous murky waters. None of us will always agree and that is how it should be to invite healthy and helpful discussion...which by the way what this topic: Biblical perspectives on race and racism" is all about. It is an invitation to those interested to discuss it and have their opinions respectfully considered... Its called communication a blessing from God since we are the only species HE created that can have such social discourse.
I don't fight racism...Gods word deals with it like it does the more popular topics like abortion, adultery, dating, lying...I believe it was you who suggested that God does not "wink" at sin...It is my personal belief that there is indeed nothing new under the sun and EVERY aspect of our lives - EVERY question we might have in life...is found in the Bible...race and racism too.
We'll discuss it and many more topics in hopes of opening dialogue and learning from one another. If you see that as "fanning the flames" so be! It almost feels, not sounds, but feels to me like you might be uncomfortable contributing to the discussion and I respect that...please know that you are not required to do so.
By the way...if you think open dialogue on race and racism " fans the flames" check out the posts listed under "current events" on this very christian website.lol
If you are going to miconstrue everything I say, I see no need to continue in these forums. At the very least, I can avoid anything written by you.
I did not say that discussing racial issues is fanning the flames.
My point is this, racism will never go away as long as people like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson fan the flames. They don't want racism to go away. They have become famous and wealthy because of racism. They have used the true suffering of black people in this country in an effort to increase there own stature. Black people are no better off as a result of the actions of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.
This is what I meant by, "Racism will never go away as long as those who fight it keep fanning the flames."
In a way, racism is foreign to me. I don't want to sound like I just fell off the turnip truck, but I live in a small college town in the middle of the country where diversity is wide. We live amongst people from all nationalities and races (again, because of the college) and it's such a non-issue here. (I'm not taking away from it being an issue in other areas of the country - years ago I lived in a much larger town and occasionally heard things that turned my ears red).
I teach my kids that people ARE different. But that difference is to be celebrated, not used as an outlet for fear about our differences. I've told them to look at flowers - there are all kinds of different colors of flowers - God loves color, that's why He made us with different colors, too. I then tell them it would be pretty boring if all the flowers were blue (yeah, okay, remember this is an explanation to a 4 year old Lol). My daughter and I were getting ready to go to a friends house (met her in college) for the first time and my daughter asked, "What color is she?" She had been "exposed" to so many different races in her young life that she was simply curious.
I think most racism is caused not by the actual differences that people possess, but by the stereotypes given to individual races. "Lazy," or "cheat," or "drunk" can apply to any person, regardless of race. It's not until we start building each other up instead of tearing each other down that we'll see change. But this has to be on an individual basis - it's nothing that can be solved with man-made laws. I have to be willing to look at someone and see them as God sees them - not who society tells me they are. I have to be willing to find out what makes us different and be willing to learn from and embrace those differences. And sometimes, I might just have to reach out, touch their face, and see for myself if the orange freckle does come off on my finger.
Sampson, I also thought that when you said, "Racism will never go away as long as those who fight it keep fanning the flames" you were talking about this discussion.
But then again, I have a history of misunderstanding people and not waiting for clarification - one of my many faults.
dear folks, i agree with as long as we stay seperate and seperate ourselves one from another.. it wont go away.. what i mean is , folks of color seperate themselves.. by say black entertainment television.. and im sure theres others.. and award shows now. are seperated just for certain ethnic groups.. now ole whitey dont have seperate television shows or awards cause thatd be a violation and racist,, lol and whitey dont have white history month either.. i think the only thing they got thats totally seperate is the kkk.. and i dont commend them or condone them.. ya see as long as folks wanna be seperate and actually seperate themselves each to their own.. theyll always be seperate.. its only when we all can see each other as equals and not wanna be seperate but yet do all things together that will be when racism ends.
my generatin has gotten better at it than the one before us. and then generation behind us has gotten even better. and i think it will continue to improve.. because we did not do those bad things that happened to people of color years ago.. though some do still think that we did. and it shouldnt oughta be..
ill tell you the biggest complaint ive ever heard from white folks is this, if a white man has been on a job for a good many years and comes up for a job promotion.. he would loose out on that job because a man or a woman of minority comes in wiith less experience and he looses the job to someone not because they were better qualified but because they had to reach their quota of minority in leadership positions. and i have seen that happen alot and heard the responses..
it should always go to the best man or woman for the job. thats my opinion.
i think we all need to get to a point that we can all say ok we are all equal.. so lets all be treated the same way.. then racism will end..
Greetings in the name of our Lord! and welcome back to me!lol:applause:
I was briefly banned from this discussion thread which I started just a few short days ago for the sole person of bible study.:goofball:
Much could be said but it would serve no purpose.
Many topics are brought up and we all can participate in discussions or not. I am disappointed with what I call the CC of CDFF but not surprised by the tactics, I've seen them many times before ususally on unbelievers and people who come in to learn of our hope in Christ Jesus.
Let it be said: None of us know all that we should know about one another outside of this website. I suspect if we did we might show a little to give the proper perspective to their comments. Lets try to use this forum to glorify God and cut the back and forth bickering...it is already a stigma unbelievers attach to people professing Christ? Let me lead the way by offering this prayer for a new beginning today: Let the words of my mouth and the meditations of my heart be acceptable in thy sight oh Lord, my strength and my redeemer. Amen and Selah.
I am a person who likes discussion and values differing points of view so long as they are not hurtful or intentionally laced with ill will. Let God arise and be glorified in all manner of conversation.
NOW...MOVING FORWARD.:glow:
I hope those of us who want to will have this dialogue and share scripture to share our points of reference.
Ole Cattle I absolutely loved your "little sermon on race" and thought it was quite timely. Thank you.
Pray before you read it and ask God to clear all thoughts or preconcieved notions of me, the topic or others comments from your mind. You will note that I reiterated severally that this was OUR discussion to take down any road we choose.
God has something for us here that is much deeper than what the surface might appear and I don't want that to be foiled by nonsense. I felt then, and feel now that if we allow ourselves to look at this subject and follow our hearts God has some really deep and great truths to aid our walk with HIM.
Let go of the need to control or dominate or be heard and just let those that want to discuss this subject for there is a blessing in it for all of us that has little to do with "race" and much more to do with GOD. Promise.
Ever heard the saying don't beat up the messenger? OK - :buddies: double dose for me!lol
Finally, let me say again to him that has an ear let him hear what the Spirit sayeth: Its not about you. Its not about me. Its about HIM. God has blessed and annointed me and I walk into dark places without fear, where HE leads I follow and make no mistake: YOU TOO have been made more than a conquerer in Christ Jesus!
I have really enjoyed reading this thread. I am constantly amazed that there are still so many levels of acceptance when it comes to different ethnicities. I have often wondered, also, about why Sunday morning services seem to be so segregated. I personally enjoy having the benefit of many different ethnic groups working, learning, and growing together. For 2 years, I went to a high school where I was part of the minority and I must say that I felt much more comfortable there than in the other high school I went to.
I know that it is a desire of many in my small church to grow in diversity. But I think that sometimes it is a forgotten desire. When there are so many "visions" and areas for growth for a church, the most urgent or the most visible ones are the ones that are focused on and actively pursued. I find myself missing the diversity from that high school. Thinking about it now, growth in diversity in a church must come from the front of the church. If the leadership of a church embraces diversity by having diverse people in leadership (on staff, if you will) then it seems much more likely to draw a diverse but unified congregation, do you think?
