Thread: Response to "Church Service- Church Worship Service"
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Response to "Church Service- Church Worship Service"
Posted : 26 Sep, 2015 08:24 AM
Gracenotworkssaves posted church service-worship service on September 5, 2015
"Hello everyone
I hear these two sayings a lot by Christians, church service--- worship service, I cannot find either of these terms nor any references to them in the entire New Covenant.
Is there someone which could post at least one Scripture showing where we are to be ' Going to church', ' Attending a worship service' or 'Going to a church service'.
I do not believe these 'things' are in the Word of GOD almighty, that they have been made up by men to entertain the people and to keep the masses from knowing the truth of who Messiah
Yeshua really is.
Have fun searching the Scriptures concerning these man made events."
In response: Here are more than one Scripture passages in response to your thread. Prayerfully,this will help you and others to know the truth as to why Christian believer are to gather together in one place as the Body of Christ...doesn't matter if its in a church building that has been set aside for the place to honor God in worship, or if its a home, or at McDonalds... as a church (Body of Christ) we are to gather together as ONE in obedience to Christ, who tell us that, Where two or MORE are gather together in HIS NAME He is in our midst"...
I do not know your purpose of intent to prove or disprove that we, as Christian believers are to assemble ourselves together, or if this is to justify YOU not attending church worship services� but throughout the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John we find wherein, Jesus Himself and the disciples attended church/worship services in the temple and synagogues, praying and worshipping God and preaching and teaching the gospel to the people.
You requested one Scripture passage, in the New Testament but to assure you of our obligation as the Body of Christ, that we are to gather together (attend church-worship service) as ONE BODY IN CHRIST AS THE CHURCH IN ONE PLACE TOGETHER... I will provide you with more than ONE PASSAGE. �Its your choice to decide what YOU will do�therefore, I have you not ignorant my brother of GOD�S TRUTH, NOT BASED ON YOUR OWN BELIEFS OR TRUTH ACCORDING TO WHAT YOU THINK AND BELIEVE� but the CHURCH gathered to gather often and regularly in ONE PLACE that was set aside for praise and worship of our Lord. Call it what you may, church service, worship service or whatever... the purpose of gathering together as Christian believers in one place has ONLY one goal in mind...to worship and praise our Lord Jesus Christ in one accord as a group.
1. Matthew 16:13-20
18 "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church (Body of Christ) ; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
2. On the Day of Pentecost the Body of Christ (the Church were gathered together in one place
Acts 2: When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in ONE PLACE."
4. Throughout the book of Acts we find the Apostles and disciples, and THE CHURCH (People-BODY OF CHRIST) praying and worshipping together either in the temple (church) or the synagogue (church), as well as the new Christian believers in homes. You search the Scriptures for yourself�. Acts 1:42-45; Acts 3:1-11; Acts 5:42; Acts 6:9-443; Acts 10:1-24; Acts 11-12; Acts 13:5-14; Acts 14:1; Acts 20:17.
5. The Apostle Paul writes in Ephesians 4:11-12, �So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, to equip his people (the saints/church-Body of Christ) for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up.�
If no one is attending church as a group of believers what use are the called position God has given in the church, if the body is scatters and not attending together in one place as the Body of Christ?
6. The gifts of the Holy Spirit were given to the CHURCH (Body of Christ) in the CHURCH, not so that each person as the Lone Ranger for their own use... I Corinthians 12,
7. In I Peter 5:2-4 �Be shepherds of God�s flock that is under your care, watching over them�not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not pursuing dishonest gain, but eager to serve; not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away.�
A flock is not one person, nor is a flock two or three people it�s the gathering of a group of people/sheep , etc... in one place otherwise, how can you effectively care for them or shepherd a flock properly if they are scattered all over the place?
8. Church Discipline is also to be brought before the CHURCH... how can this happen if no one is gathered together in ONE PLACE AS THE BODY OF CHRIST?
Matthew 8:15-17... "And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto you as a heathen man and a tax collector."
9. Paul also speaks about defiling the church in I Corinthians chapter 5: � In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."
I could go on to show YOU your error as it pertains to Christian believers gathering together in one place to worship and praise our Lord... Nevertheless, For you or anyone to say that gathering together as ONE BODY IN CHRIST IS NOT IMPORTANT OR THE TERMS USED IS OF MAN, MATTERS NOT WHAT YOU CALL IT... THIS IS A LIE OF THE DEVIL!.. NO WHERE CAN YOU PROVIDE A SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS BELIEVERS ARE NOT TO GATHER TOGETHER IN ONE PLACE, AND FOR SURE IS NOT BIBLICAL NOR CAN BE FOUND IN GOD'S HOLY WORD THAT WHEN BELIEVERS OD GATHER THIS IS NOT CALLED WORSHIP SERVICE OR CHURCH SERVICE..
For believers to gather corporately in one place is found through out the New Testament., whether they gather in a temple, or any kind of building that is called a church... attendance promotes fellowship and encouragement.. again, call it church service or worship service THIS IS NOT important.
If you and your family gather together and this is important for fellowship with one another as a family, should not this be the same for Christian believers who gather togethr in one place to worship and praise the Lord? YES!...
Again, The church building is a place dedicated to the worship of the corporate BODY OF CHRIST TO come together in one place having all things in common, with one spiritual purpose in mind, to worship in one accord our Lord Jesus Christ as ONE BODY IN CHRIST.
You find this gathering in unity from the Old Testament throughout the New Testament and finally in the book of Revelation, when ALL THE SAINTS OF GOD WILL GATHER IN ONE PLACE TO WORSHIP AND SING PRAISE TO GOD OUR FATHER AND OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST IN HIS HOLY TEMPLE!
The 1st century Christian believers could not afford a church building therefore they DID NOT have a building built for worshipping God, but they still gathered wherever they could in ONE PLACE in one accorded to worship the Lord.
DO NOT ALLOW THE DEVIL TO DECEIVE YOU INTO BELIEVING THAT THIS IS NOT SCRIPTURAL, AND IS NOT OF GOD... THE DEVIL IS A LAIR PREVENTING YOU AND OTHERS FROM GETTING SPIRITUALLY STRONG IN THE LORD THROUGH THE FELLOWSHIPPING AND PRAISING GOD WITH OTHER CHRISTIAN BELIEVERS IN ONE PLACE, THIS IS TO STRENGTHEN YOUR FAITH WHEN YOU GATHER IN THE HOUSE OF WORSHIP WITH OTHER BELIEVERS.
The church building is CALLED A HOUSE OF WORSHIP, denoting that it is the place where the CHURCH (BODY OF CHRIST) gathers together in one place in one accord... no different than your HOUSE IS CALLED A HOME WHERE YOUR FAMILY LIVES AND GATHERS TOGETHER IN ONE PLACE AND IN ONE ACCORD... TO LIVE AS A FAMILY!:glow:.. what does going hme mean or have to do with going to your house where your family lives and gather?... terms have nothing to do with what God commands or expects of us... so don't get lost in the use of terms " attending worshp service" or "going to church service" to justify YOU not attending or gathering together with other believers in one place,,, you can find yourself in spiritual error, as you already are...and is MORE spiritual damaging than the TERMS!
The big question is: ARE YOU IN OBEDIENCE/COMPLIANCE WITH, AND TO WHAT GOD REQUIRES OF US FOR OUR OWN SPIRITUAL GROWTH AND COMMANDS OF US AS CHRISTIAN BELIEVERS...
Hebrews 10:24-25:
"And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.":glow:
Response to "Church Service- Church Worship Service"
Posted : 28 Sep, 2015 09:11 PM
I felt the need to be the Holy Spirits' "advocate" by throwing a wrench of thought in this heated discussion by making a simple observation of the Word of God---
Acts 2:46-47---And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
Now just a thought of interpretation...apparently during the NT "church", spiritual leadership had been instructed by The Lord to began their daily journey by first meeting amongst themselves, praying...getting spiritual guidance by The Spirit of God in the "temple", to then go OUT to the people...into their homes...fellowshipping, ministering, praying...and by the power of The Holy Spirit, many were saved and were added to the church!!!
If you ask me, that could have a lot to do with why the "church" has fallen short in it's task to reach the masses effectively...we have reversed the process! Our spiritual leaders need to be "going out" into the neighborhoods...ministering, providing, "having favour with the people" yet unfortunately, many church leaders focus on how many people they can get to "come in" to their churches and fill their pews!! Now don't get me wrong, I will NEVER go against the assembling of the saints and the positive need of the church in our communities, but we all have to admit...something's wrong and needs to change with how we as the body of Christ has been doing things to effectively...for the Kingdom, help point the lost to Christ!! Just my humbling opinion...
Response to "Church Service- Church Worship Service"
Posted : 29 Sep, 2015 09:30 AM
Joy Shared ~ Our spiritual leaders need to be "going out" into the neighborhoods...ministering, providing, "having favour with the people" yet unfortunately, many church leaders focus on how many people they can get to "come in" to their churches and fill their pews!!
*** Yup!...I've noticed this also in some Churches. When a person finds a Church that that the Elders and the Sheep step out and evangelize as well as helping the down trodden and the local community as well as their own congregation....stick with them...We have received a most Wonderful Free Gift and it is far better to share it openly than to close it in. (SMILES)
Response to "Church Service- Church Worship Service"
Posted : 29 Sep, 2015 09:52 AM
Gracenotworks (George) wrote: SO very sorry, but i do not read commentaries, they are just the words of men, only the comments of men. I will stick with the Word of GOD. That is the problem with the church, the self called pastors read the comments of men, quote the same men and place it in their sermon, and say they taught the people the Word of GOD, what a bad joke on the people. Study to show yourself , not study anothers notes.
George, you may not wear filp=flops, but they sure are wearing YOU OUT!, because you are indeed flip=flopping all over the place and never coming to discuss not one thing you or anyone has posted... you keep jumping from one topic to another... making excuses and trying to justify your error by quoting more Scripture... you need to give us an expository on the Scripture passages you post in Scripture... You remind me of what Paul speaks, you're forever learning, BUT NEVER COMING TO AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IT IS THAT YOU'RE LEARNING... if you're sticking with the word of God, and you're studying to show yourself, then surely, God would have told you that you DO AND DID NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT PAUL WROTE IN I CORINTHIANS CHAPTER 14... as well as all the other passages you misquote and do not understand, I'm just saying...
So, On what grounds and what facts do you know for sure that the pastors are "self-called pastors"? Who told you this? Is it just because they are speaking God's Word in truth but you are set to believe YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT GOD SPEAKS? There is NO WAY you are receiving revelation from God into His Word with what you come up with...
I think this is YOUR PROBLEM.. YOU THINK you understand God's word better than anyone,and that for sure is in error and is a sin,thinking more of your own understanding than you ought. So how do you know the difference between the 'SELF-CALLED PASTORS" and the "CALLED PASTORS OF GOD??
If you're going to quote what God speaks then quote the whole passage, not just enough for your own sake; Yes, the passage says this:2 Timothy 2:15 King James Version (KJV) Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that need not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."
With this passage in mind and in ALL YOUR ERROR of misunderstanding of the Word, do you really think God approves of YOUR understanding of His Word? Being that YOU ARE NOT RIGHTLY DIVIDING (speaking God's word correctly?
Paul had teachers he studied under, and God teaches us we too, are to have teachers, so why is it that you have no need for a teacher so that you will know whether or not what you speak is of God? A false balance is a sin, and especially, when it comes to misunderstanding of God's Word... you are in spiritual error, with an unteachable spirit, not willing to learn or know the truth. There is NOT ONE person in the Word of God who DID NOT HAVE A TEACHER, so what's your problem?
I think your problems are many... but, if you learn the truth of god's Word then you will come to know and understand that you are in error, and this is another reason why you MAKE SO MANY EXCUSES AND HAVE SO MANY REASONS AS TO WHY YOU DON'T ATTEND CHURCH WITH OTHER BELIEVERS, AND YOU MAKE EXCUSES AS TO WHY YOU DON'T LISTEN TO OTHER PASTORS OR TEACHERS...
As Jesus says, darkness hates the light, because your own deeds will be exposed. You really have need to be REGENERATED, because in what you post, and comment, I find that you HAVE NOT COMPLETELY SURRENDERED YOUR WHOLE HEART OVER TO THE LORD FOR A GOOD WASHING BY THE HOLY SPIRIT. OTHERWISE, you wouldn't have the negative attitudes that you have... lest you've forgotten it was God through Jesus Christ who set PASTORS AND TEACHERS in the church" for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; so that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head�Christ� from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love."
Therefore, I say to YOU, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles (sinners) walk, in the futility of their mind, having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in YOU, because of the blindness of YOUR heart... But you have not so learned Christ, if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness."
Because your attitude regarding the church and pastors and teachers GOD HAS CALLED IS NOT RIGHT NOR OF GOD, NOR RESEMBLE A TRUE BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN AS YOU PROCLAIM YOU ARE CALLED BY GOD... you have serious NEED TO COME INTO THE TRUTH OF GOD'S WORD,NOT YOUR OWN TRUTH... YOU DO WELL...
Maybe you should do a Greek word search for the word REGENERATED... it means the same in the Greek as it does in the English, as al words you look up in the Greek have the same meaning in the English...
BTW, what bible translation are you using, because I don't know of anyone having the original Greek writings of the Apostle Paul to compare and contrast.. so what translation are you using since you're always talking about the correct Bible translation, WHAT IS THE CORRECT BIBLE TRANSLATION, that you have compared to the original writing of the Apostle Paul?.. and how do YOU know its the correct Bible translation to use?
May God Himself open your eye of understanding into His word of truth... God bless...
Response to "Church Service- Church Worship Service"
Posted : 29 Sep, 2015 10:28 AM
Hisjoymypeace wrote: If you ask me, that could have a lot to do with why the "church" has fallen short in it's task to reach the masses effectively...we have reversed the process! Our spiritual leaders need to be "going out" into the neighborhoods...ministering, providing, "having favour with the people" yet unfortunately, many church leaders focus on how many people they can get to "come in" to their churches and fill their pews!! Now don't get me wrong, I will NEVER go against the assembling of the saints and the positive need of the church in our communities, but we all have to admit...something's wrong and needs to change with how we as the body of Christ has been doing things to effectively...for the Kingdom, help point the lost to Christ!! Just my humbling opinion.
Joy, you're are on mark!... Evangelism is what Jesus and DID with His disciples, and throughout the book of Acts and Paul's ministry and the other Apostles, and is not this the GREAT COMMAND JESUS GAVE TO THE CHURCH?... TO GO???!!!!
Yes, I believe in having a church building for the saints to gather together in one accord to worship and praise our Lord in the sanctuary that has been build for this purpose, and after such has taken place then we are to GO serve Him EVANGELIZING INTO OUR WORLD IN THE COMMUNITY!
If the Temple is going to be rebuilt, and was built for such purposes, there is nowhere in Scripture that says doing such is a sin...but it is a sin for the church to be in disobedience to God's command to GO!!
thank you for sharing...good word!:applause::dancingp:
Response to "Church Service- Church Worship Service"
Posted : 29 Sep, 2015 04:30 PM
Hi Ella,
I believe you had written this,
Gracenotworks (George) wrote: SO very sorry, but i do not read commentaries, they are just the words of men, only the comments of men. I will stick with the Word of GOD. That is the problem with the church, the self called pastors read the comments of men, quote the same men and place it in their sermon, and say they taught the people the Word of GOD, what a bad joke on the people. Study to show yourself , not study anothers notes.
I was responding to your prior comments.
Now what is a 'SELF CALLED PASTOR'.
When a man goes to the cemetery, ooops seminary he learns the basics to read the Scripture from the Hebrew, and Greek texts, they study for about 3-5 years. Upon leaving they may have a few certificates in Biblical studies, pastoral studies, an M Div. also known as Mater of Divinity ( There is only ONE MASTER of anything),OH yeah the call themselves ' pastor', YET they have not pastored ANYTHING.
The English word 'pastor' is translated from the Greek word
' poimen' which means shepherd,
So what have these 'self called' pastors shepherd, Answer NOTHING,that is why they are SELF called.
When a man graduates college with an engineering degree is he thus an engineer, ABSOLUTLEY not, Why, he has no EXPERIENCE as an engineer, the same goes for anything in this life, no experience No title...
The ELDERS ( Old men ) are the ones which are to be OVERSEEING the body of believers, and the meeting of the saints.
I will post where the ELDERS are the ones which the Apostles talk with not the pastor.
The book of the Acts of the Holy Spirit chapter and verse(s)
Acts: 4:5
And it came to pass on the morrow, that their rulers, and elders, and scribes,
Act 4:8
Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
Act 4:23
And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them.
Act 6:12
And they stirred up the people, and the elders, and the scribes, and came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council,
Act 11:30
Which also they did, and sent it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul.
Act 14:23
And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.
Act 15:2
When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
Act 15:4
And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
Act 15:6
And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Act 15:22
Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
Act 15:23
And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
Act 16:4
And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem.
Act 20:17
And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.
Act 21:18
And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.
Act 22:5
As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.
Act 23:14
And they came to the chief priests and elders, and said, We have bound ourselves under a great curse, that we will eat nothing until we have slain Paul.
Act 24:1
And after five days Ananias the high priest descended with the elders, and with a certain orator named Tertullus, who informed the governor against Paul.
Act 25:15
About whom, when I was at Jerusalem, the chief priests and the elders of the Jews informed me, desiring to have judgment against him.
Next we shall look into the rest of the Scriptures which talk about the ELDERS ( plural, not pastor singular).
Timothy 5:17
Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
Titus 1:5
For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:
Hebrews 11:2
For by it the elders obtained a good report.
Jas 5:14
Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
1Pe 5:1
The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
Rev 4:4
And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
Rev 4:10
The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
Rev 5:5
And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Rev 5:6
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Rev 5:8
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Rev 5:11
And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
Rev 5:14
And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
Rev 7:11
And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 7:13
And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 11:16
And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 14:3
And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
Rev 19:4
And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
The explanation I hear is, that the church has a Mosaic type of leadership, and the elders were under Moses.
My oh my, what a denial of the New Covenant, did we not just read numerous Scripture where it is the ELDERS plural talked about in the Word of GOD.
George there must be many times more the mention of pastor in the New covenant, please post those, please.OK
Jeremiah 2:8
The priests said not, Where is the LORD? and they that handle the law knew me not: the pastors also transgressed against me, and the prophets prophesied by Baal, and walked after things that do not profit.
Jer 3:15
And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.
Jer 10:21
For the pastors are become brutish, and have not sought the LORD: therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered.
Jer 12:10
Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.
Jer 22:22
The wind shall eat up all thy pastors, and thy lovers shall go into captivity: surely then shalt thou be ashamed and confounded for all thy wickedness.
Jer 23:1
Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.
Jer 23:2
Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.
Eph 4:11
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
We will look at shepherd(s) since the same Greek word is used for both Shepherd, and pastor.
Mat 9:36
But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd.
Mat 25:32
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 26:31
Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.
Mark 6:34
And Jesus, when he came out, saw much people, and was moved with compassion toward them, because they were as sheep not having a shepherd: and he began to teach them many things.
Mar 14:27
And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.
John 10:2
But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
John 10:11
I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
John 10:12
But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
John 10:14
I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Jhn 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Heb 13:20
Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
1Pe 2:25
For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
1Pe 5:4
And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
Luke 2:8
And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
Luke 2:15
And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us.
Luke 2:18
And all they that heard it wondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds.
Luke 2:20
And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them
Now that the Word of GOD establishes the ELDERS as those having the oversight, Ella, please ask GOD Almighty to remove the scales from your eyes, to allow you to see beyond that which you have been listening to from the pastor. Let the Holy Spirit instruct you into understanding the Word of GOD Almighty, not the translations.
Response to "Church Service- Church Worship Service"
Posted : 30 Sep, 2015 12:50 PM
ET posted to George: Now what is a 'SELF CALLED PASTOR'.
George"s response: When a man goes to the cemetery, ooops seminary he learns the basics to read the Scripture from the Hebrew, and Greek texts, they study for about 3-5 years. Upon leaving they may have a few certificates in Biblical studies, pastoral studies, an M Div. also known as Mater of Divinity ( There is only ONE MASTER of anything),OH yeah the call themselves ' pastor', YET they have not pastored ANYTHING.
Ella: George, I graduated from seminary with my doctorate, but I don't recall EVER "calling" myself a PASTOR, nor do I know of any one who graduated from seminary referencing themselves as being pastors UNLESS they are a pastors of a church (flock)... so where are you getting your information from?.. who and what demon is telling you these things? :buddies: :devil:
George: The English word 'pastor' is translated from the Greek word ' poimen' which means shepherd,
George, Did you know that the ENGLISH WORD for PASTOR ALSO MEANS SHEPHERD?.. SO WHAT ELSE IS NEW?...:rolleyes:
George: So what have these 'self called' pastors shepherd, Answer NOTHING,that is why they are SELF called. When a man graduates college with an engineering degree is he thus an engineer, ABSOLUTLEY not, Why, he has no EXPERIENCE as an engineer, the same goes for anything in this life, no experience No title...
ET: Yet he is still considered to be an ENGINEER, BECAUSE HE HAS A DEGREE IN THE MATTER WITH OR WITHOUT EXPERIENCE... His college degree makes him/her who they are in title NOT THEIR EXPERIENCE... One does not graduate from seminary with a degree in pastoring as in being a pastor or shepherd over a flock/church, but the degree positions the person ONLY IN TITLE TO BECOME A PASTOR OF A CHURCH WITH OR WITHOUT A COLLEGE DEGREE OR EXPERIENCE... One DOES NOT NEED a college or seminary degree to be a PASTOR OVER A CHURCH. God never required such. People attend seminary to STUDY AND TO LEARN more than what they do know, but attending seminary IS NOT a requirement to be or to become a pastor, it is GOD WHO DOES THE CALLING, although there are those who are SELF-CALLED, BUT THEY ARE SOON EXPOSED, just as you have SELF-CALLED YOURSELF TO KNOW SO MUCH ABOUT GOD AND HIS WORD, YET WHAT YOU SPEAK IS NOT WITH SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING OR KNOWLEDGE IN THE WORD..you denounce everything God has set before the church based on YOUR OWN BELIEFS AND UNDERSTANDING... SHOO AIN'T BY REVELATION FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT. So are we to listen to YOU and what you speak,or attend church and listen to someone who has been to seminary and expresses more SOUND UNDERSTANDING AND KNOWLEDGE IN RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD THAN WHAT YOU ARE PUTTING OUT HERE ON THIS FORUM? ... so what's your point?
George: The ELDERS ( Old men ) are the ones which are to be OVERSEEING the body of believers, and the meeting of the saints.
So where is this located in all the quotes of Scriptures you have posted about ELDERS? The Bible DOES NOT say ONE THING about the OLDER MEN ARE SUPPOSE TO BE THE ELDERS IN THE CHURCH, OR THE ONES OVER THE CHURCH... you are once again, IN SPIRITUAL ERROR AND LACK UNDERSTANDING IN WHAT YOU'RE READING AND THE SCRIPTURES YOU ARE POSTING. The Bible uses Elder, Presbyter, Overseer, Bishop, Shepherd, Pastor, or Steward interchangeably and they all refer to a single office in the church. Local churches appoint their own elders using 1 Timothy 3, and Titus 1 as guidelines for the qualifications.
Elders have authority ONLY over the members of the local church under the direction of the PASTOR, not members from outside congregations. The Elders are also known as assistant or associate ministers or pastors in the church who work with the PASTOR.
Also, elders in the 1st century churches were probably those who no longer were PASTORS of a church, and were now the spiritual leaders and ministers, not simply a governing council of old men.There is no difference between the WORD elder and the biship or pastor in their office. Its that, in some churches they use these positions as being different, but there is nothing in the Bible that says they are different., including in the thousand of Scriptures you have posted. God says, HE CALLED THE PASTOR TO THE CHURCH... The qualifications of the ELDER ARE THE SAME FOR ALL THOSE GOD HAS CALLED TO OVERSEE HIS PEOPLE IN THE CHURCH, which is implying that the terms are interchangeable.
God say treat the elder (MEANING THE OLDER MAN), HE IS NOT SPEAKING ABOUT THE PERSON WHO HOLDS THE OFFICE OF AN ELDER called to lead the people in the church... BUT this refers to the OLD MAN in the church as your father, again, he is NOT talking about the spiritual leader, just as God says to treat the elder (older) woman as mother in the church, and the younger woman as sister.
George wrote: please ask GOD Almighty to remove the scales from your eyes, to allow you to see beyond that which you have been listening to from the pastor. Let the Holy Spirit instruct you into understanding the Word of GOD Almighty, not the translations.
Sweetheart, You do well to take your own counsel, because you are so far off the spiritually course in your understanding of God's Word.
Response to "Church Service- Church Worship Service"
Posted : 30 Sep, 2015 03:18 PM
Hi Ella,
I can see that you have been spiritually brain washed, to thinking the Elders are under a pastor.
Please give the Scriptures to support your thesis, as I have given you many Scriptures which show the Elders have the oversight, not a pastor, but you are not able to understand the Scriptures I posted.
Also please show where being a pastor is an OFFICE, especially a PAID office, where a man collects a pay check, benefits, housing allowance, car allowance, and any other perks which Messiah and the early learners of Yeshua never had.
Response to "Church Service- Church Worship Service"
Posted : 30 Sep, 2015 05:35 PM
George, you seek answers from everyone else, but you tend not to ANSWER NOTHING anyone seek from you. Why not try re-reading the books or letters of First and Second Timothy and the book of Titus...
You're full of games, trying to justify your LACK of SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING and sins...FLIP=FLOPPING ALL OVER THE PLACE FROM ONE TOPIC AND COMPLAINT TO ANOTHER, as it is written: YOU ARE FOREVER LEARNING, BUT NEVER COMING TO AN UNDERSTANDING IN KNOWLEDGE OF NOTHING YOU LEARN!...
As The Apostle Paul also states, the person who is determine to be spiritual ignorant, let him be ignorant.
