The greatest fallacy in Christianity today which causes a great deal of strife amongst believers and non-believers is the erroneous belief that abortion is in fact murder. This is a fallacy and is not supported by any verse of scripture. In fact there are many verses that state otherwise.
I debate this with Christians regularly and their blindness to truth is intolerable. The inability of Christians to accept truth when it's very clear in the Bible, is disappointing.
First of all God is a Spirit (John 4:24). God is not a physical being. He does not have have a physical body.
Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
God is not a physical being so he did not have the ability to physically breath into Adam the "breath of life" This verse really means is God gave Adam the ability to breath oxygen through his nostrils.
Further proof of the "Breath of Life" simply referring to the oxygen we breath is in
Genesis 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
Genesis 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
Genesis 7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land , died.
Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
There's no doubt that "breath of life" referrers to the air we breath, not a literal event that took place.
In Ezekiel 37:8-10 we watch as God re-animates dead bones into living soldiers, but the passage makes the interesting note that they were not alive as persons until their first breath. Likewise, in Genesis 2:7, Adam had a human form and a vibrant new body but he only becomes a fully-alive human person after God makes him breathe.
It is neither a sin nor wrong to kill a living creature that does not have a soul. It's only a sin and murder when one kills a living and breathing human being. A living and breathing human being regardless of age has become a living soul.
A baby in the womb is a living creature without a soul. A baby does not breath oxygen (breath of life) until he/she has been birthed into the world and is breathing the air with his/her own lungs. While in the womb the baby receives oxygenated blood through the umbilical cord. The baby is living but is not yet a immortal being with an immortal soul.
Abortion is simply an induced miscarriage. The statistics state that 1 in 3 pregnancies end in a miscarriage. These miscarriages occur due to absolutely no fault of the mother. They happen for a wide variety of reasons and many miscarriages that occur can't be explained. But if you're a Christian and you believe God controls all things and you believe unborn babies have a soul, you'd also have to believe God is a murderer. If God allows a baby with a soul to die and he has the ability to prevent this but allows it anyway, that'd be no different then a mother inducing a miscarriage.
As an inferior creator God has given rights, responsibilities, abilities, and permission for 9 months to terminate the life we've created if we see fit to do so. This aligns itself with the doctrine of God. God as the supreme creator has the right to terminate his creation at will. He has this right as the supreme creator. We as an inferior creator have a limited period of 9 months to destroy our creation. At the time of birth when the baby starts breathing on his/her own, they become a living soul. The baby becomes an immortal person with an immortal soul. Our inferior creator rights have been expunged.
A baby didn't even have any value until a month of age.
LEVITICUS 27:6 And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver. Likewise, in Numbers 3:15 a census was commanded, but the Jews were told only to count those one month old and above anything less, particularly a fetus, was not counted as a human person.
Naturally occurring miscarriage only further proves that unborn babies have no souls. God allowing miscarriages to occur when he could prevent them, proves that unborn babies don't have souls. Would God take the life of an innocent human being? No, he would not.
mine here
ya know if we were to use your analogy here.. what you suggest is because GOD allows miscarriages or deaths when HE could prevent them means one doesnt have a soul then..
if that was the case everyone who died wouldnt have a soul..
GOD could prevent all deaths.. HE could. but yet HE doesnt.even the innocent ones as well. some miracles happen and folks get to live longer,because GOD intervened. all for the glory and power of the GREAT PHYSICIAN. and innocent folks do die.
folks die for various reasons some from ripe old age, some because of their own sins made em die young, some because someone else sinned and caused them to die young. some just because ,for reasons unknown to us. but i will say this if someone dies, its because they was living and anyone living has a soul. and it is MURDER to kill an unborn child.
its kinda funny how a man can hit a pregnant woman in the belly and cause her to miscarriage and be charged with murder of the unborn.. or if someone murders a woman who is pregnant and the person is charged with not just one murder but yet is charged with the murder of two people. and yet the same woman can choose to have a doctor murder the innocent unborn child.
el captn you say GOD doesnt allow the murder of innocents , or innocent living babies,, youre right bout that .HE dont.
exodus 20:13 you shall not murder.
see a miscarriage is generally something unnatural ,but yet natural that can happen to a womans body and the unborn child. if it happens naturally then its not murder.
now if the woman did things to cause it then shes responsible and needs to repent. same if any woman has ever had a abortion.. she needs to repent for said murder. GOD can forgive you anything people..except the blasphamy of the HOLY SPIRIT, but please dont ever do that again.. its just not right. that baby is clingin to you for life. dont snub it out.
I believe the basic mistake is introducing the concept of an "immortal soul". There is no such thing in scripture. There is no dualism of body and soul. This is not christian faith, this is greek philosophy.
The concept was taken up eventually by theologists in the early church, because they were greek and the greek philosophy was the paradigm they thought in, like we today think in the routes of sience (and we all do, even if we are the most hard core creationists we go by the rules of modern science).
A creature of God is a creature of God, breathing doesn't play a role, and it wasn't oxygen God was breathing into the nostrils of the human, but the spirit of God. It was life itself, if you ask me, but this is only another interpretation.
Linnie, they are beautiful children and your story is a blessing to hear in itself, along with that truth about Adam. He represented the innocence before our fallibility, his own initial sin.
elcapitan
QUOTE
Psalms 22:10 says, "I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly." The verse says, "from", not "in". God knew David well before conception but until David was from his mother's belly he did not have a soul and hence he did not have a God. Luke 20:38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him. By God's definition a human being is not alive until they have souls and they don't acquire a soul until their breathing on their own.
UNQUOTE
�From� is referring to God being there even while David was in the wound. Here�s an example. Joh 15:27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
The breath is referring to life in the spiritual. For Adam and those who came from the dead�those who lived and then died�it was physical. God says that He speaks in parables and that the physical examples are to show us spiritual concepts. I can�t think of once where it said that Adam was dead before his life.
In the same way as that being an example of spiritual truth, so is physical life. If it is alive, it has soul. Now, does this mean that it is an immortal soul? No. The animals have mortal souls, just as sinful man will have spiritual death.
Psa 49:12 Nevertheless man being in honour abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish.
Psa 49:20 Man that is in honour, and understandeth not, is like the beasts that perish.
He is speaking of an unsaved man. They man that will suffer the spiritual death and not be saved. His soul will continue to be chained to sin and thus mortal, instead of the life forever that is represented in Jesus.
When you can find out who among humans are destined for Hell (mortal souls) or Heaven (immortal souls), then you truly have become your own false god.
Also, miscarriages are something God allows and NO ONE is innocent. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Had any of us been where Adam and Eve had been, we would have done the exact same thing as they. You also forget the story of Job and all other times where the Lord destined for His people to be broken down, such as Lazarus, which only shows to prove that a child in the womb is no different. Notice that God calls it a child, whether in or out of the womb.
wow. wow. i am in shock that someone could actually claim to be a christian and believe and attempt to use the bible (erroneously i might add) to prove their beliefs. it is no mystery why so many people in the world are against christians.
first off, your logic makes no sense. yes, its true, god does allow miscarriages to happen, but that in no way means that the baby has no soul. god also allows earthquakes, does that mean that all the people who die in earthquakes have no souls as well? what about those who die in car accidents? or fires? or floods? or wars? do none of those people have souls either? bad things happen in this world - god allows them, but he doesnt cause them and who they happen to has no bearing or say in whether or not they have a soul. miscarriage, floods, earthquakes...all death and suffering is a result of the fall of man (you seem to be familiar with genesis...im sure you've read about it) and is no indication of whether or not the suffering people have a soul or not.
secondly, the scriptures that you used dont support your misguided theory at all. if you had looked a little beyond what you first saw that "confirmed" your thoughts, you would have seen that in fact, they were DISPROVING your theory.
looking at the original text, the hebrew word used in genesis 2:7 and job 33:4 for breath (when it actually mentions in the verse that is comes from God/the Almighty is "nashamah" (pronounced nesh-aw-maw') the meaning of which is as follows:
1. breath, spirit
1. breath (of God)
2. breath (of man)
3. every breathing thing
4. spirit (of man)
the other verses you quoted use a DIFFERENT word entirely for breath. this word is "ruwach" (pronounced roo'-akh) which means something completely different.
1. wind, breath, mind, spirit
1. breath
2. wind
1. of heaven
2. quarter (of wind), side
3. breath of air
4. air, gas
5. vain, empty thing
3. spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation)
6. disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse
7. prophetic spirit
4. spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)
1. as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death, disembodied being
5. spirit (as seat of emotion)
1. desire
2. sorrow, trouble
6. spirit
1. as seat or organ of mental acts
2. rarely of the will
3. as seat especially of moral character
7. Spirit of God, the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
1. as inspiring ecstatic state of prophecy
2. as impelling prophet to utter instruction or warning
3. imparting warlike energy and executive and administrative power
4. as endowing men with various gifts
5. as energy of life
6. as manifest in the Shekinah glory
7. never referred to as a depersonalised force
also the word for life is the same in all the passages..."chay" (pronounced khah'-ee)
1. living, alive
1. green (of vegetation)
2. flowing, fresh (of water)
3. lively, active (of man)
4. reviving (of the springtime) n m
2. relatives
3. life (abstract emphatic)
1. life
2. sustenance, maintenance n f
4. living thing, animal
1. animal
2. life
3. appetite
4. revival, renewal
5. community
now, i feel that i dont really have to say much more, but i will end on this. the fact that the "breath of life " referred to in verses where God is giving the life is different that simply the breath of life that is in every living being is significant, because that proves that something special and intimate takes place at the moment when life begins (the gaining of a SOUL) as opposed to the breath of life that is in our nostrils every day (the breath that we would begin taking when we are born) which is simply wind, breath, air etc as proved by the definition of the words in the ORIGINAL language...
i think its also important to note that the definition of life doesnt change....that says to me that all life is sacred to God (remember man was never intended to kill animals...death of any kind was NOT part of god's original design) from the instant it begins, born or unborn.
And this guy is here to find a date? I don't think I would go waging war about hardcore subjects while looking for the woman to share my life with. Does he also poo where he eats?
If you are a true born again christian this is a no brainer. God knew us before time , He created us ,formed us. We are created with a spirit that comes to life when we are saved( at the age of accountability). We are sooo precious to God that that He was there and excited when we were conceived because He had BIG plans for us. This subject should be a "settled" matter in the christian realm.
And this guy is here to find a date? I don't think I would go waging war about hardcore subjects while looking for the woman to share my life with. Does he also poo where he eats?
Just seems off to me.
No offence scifi guy (but be offended if need be)
mine here
your whole post it seems was meant to be offencive. it was very unnesecery . a put down of someone who claims to be your brother. we all know folks do tend to misinterpret the bible at times. does that justify us bein mean to them? nope.
2 timothy 2:24-26 24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.
