Thread: Pj can you please explain to me to where I am not having to guess at what you mean, when exactly did I acuse Jesus of being wrong? I acused you of being wrong and I plainly p;ainly stated that I do believe we will prosper everything I ever said was about our intent and the condition of our hearts so please explai what you mean by I did it again and that I said Jesus was wrong
Pj can you please explain to me to where I am not having to guess at what you mean, when exactly did I acuse Jesus of being wrong? I acused you of being wrong and I plainly p;ainly stated that I do believe we will prosper everything I ever said was about our intent and the condition of our hearts so please explai what you mean by I did it again and that I said Jesus was wrong
Posted : 31 Jan, 2012 05:49 PM
Can anyone right divide this response?
Posted : 30 Jan, 2012 07:01 AM
Elisha said
That is what I ben trying to say newguy . PJ just cause I dont agree with you does not mean automaticly that I am in unbelief because to classify me in unbelief on a given subject you must first decide a few things #1 maybe you are wrong
(which is what I think on the subject of prosperity) #2 its possible that you have been mislead or decieved which would still make you wrong but someone else decieved you (i think you figured out the le on your own) #3 we are having a misunderstanding and you are not understanding what it is i am trying to say or vise versa you have several times completly ignored my statements that TV evangilists prey on por people by convincing them they wont be poor anymore if they send what little they have , I didint say all prosperity ws wrong just that doctrine in which the intent is self gain and not just love for the Lord and others a doctrine in which your soul purpose in giving is to increase yourself is completly contrary to the gospel of Christ and the Laws in which He said we are to Love others we are to be denying self so if we are giving just so we can recieve thats sin!!
who disagrees with that last statement
Pj said
phillipjohn
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Can anyone right divide this response?
Posted : 30 Jan, 2012 07:17 AM
Jesus did not figure himself out wrong, now you did it again Elisha you see you want to be wrong, it is not hard to enter into unbelief.
There will always be job's comforters
It is a choice to walk in faith and only those that walk in faith please the father.
Jesus is man's prosperity to whom will believe.
No I did not get it wrong by believing in the lord Jesus and his redemption and no amount of the mocking and scorning and unbelief will change his word.
To love him all will have to forsake his opinion's and accept the truth of the word of God.
In case you not sure what I have said, The gospel is prosperity and prosperity to every aspect of unbelief.
Pj can you please explain to me to where I am not having to guess at what you mean, when exactly did I acuse Jesus of being wrong? I acused you of being wrong and I plainly p;ainly stated that I do believe we will prosper everything I ever said was about our intent and the condition of our hearts so please explai what you mean by I did it again and that I said Jesus was wrong
Posted : 1 Feb, 2012 01:37 PM
Jesus is not a part of your opinion's of opinion's.
Your tactics and procedures are more than obvious.
Where does it say to be a tither in the new testament
First of all it has nothing to do with being written in the New Testament, that is as Jesus taught the traditions of men.
Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mt 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Ro 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
I realize what the context is on the last verse, but the latter part of the verse is applicable to all of the word.
Pj can you please explain to me to where I am not having to guess at what you mean, when exactly did I acuse Jesus of being wrong? I acused you of being wrong and I plainly p;ainly stated that I do believe we will prosper everything I ever said was about our intent and the condition of our hearts so please explai what you mean by I did it again and that I said Jesus was wrong
Posted : 1 Feb, 2012 04:26 PM
No where in scripture does God speak against being prosperous or being rich. God DOES NOT SPEAK ABOUT BELIEVERS BEING POOR, and being poor in spirit as many like to use, is about being humble, broken in spirit submmitted.
Jesus speaks about not allowing what a person has to cause them to forget God and the things of God. He speak against anyone SEEKING to BE RICH OR WEALTHY,HAVING THE WRONG FOCUS ON ONE'S MONEY INSTEAD OF GOD. And this all happenes with those who are poor who have their focus on ebing poor instead of God, so the messages is for everyone whether one is rich or poor.
Prosperity is not all about money, nor is having money a call for judment or condemnation, because God exalt one and put down another, so if a person ahs been exalted by God to be prospeous financially is this suppose ot be some kind og ungdoly sin? I don't think so, because its from God and not the person's doing in their hard word and diligence, and rewarded and blessed of the Lord, becasue He can trust them with the blessings to give willingly.
The blessings and rewards of the Lord is prosperity in ALL THINGS, GOOD HEALTH, AS YOUR SOUL ALSO PROSPEROUS IN THE WISDOM, KNOWING AND UNDERSTANDING OF GOD'S WORD NOT ONLY ON THIS EARTHY BUT IN ETERNITY.
As Jesus told Peter and the disciples and is for us as well, any one who leaves houses, or land or children or whatever to follow Him and spead the gospel, will also receive back those things they left not on on earthy but in heaven.
So Jesus answered them and said, �Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brother or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or land, for My sake and the gospel�s, who shall not receive a HUNDREDFOLD now in this time � and in the age to come, eternal life.� (Mark 10:29-30)
And What do these passages mean as it relates to this topic?
Proverbs 11:25 A generous man will prosper; he who refreshes others will himself be refreshed.
2 Corinthians 9:6 Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to bless you abundantly, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. As it is written: �They have freely scattered their gifts to the poor; their righteousness endures forever.�
Whats' everybody's problem with God Himself blessings and rewarding a believer with having money or being prosperous in their hard work receiving the reward thereforeof? is not the blessings and rewards of the Lord promised to those who are diligent adn generous in giving, and obedient to His word not only for prosperous lving on earth but in eternity...just saying:glow:
Pj can you please explain to me to where I am not having to guess at what you mean, when exactly did I acuse Jesus of being wrong? I acused you of being wrong and I plainly p;ainly stated that I do believe we will prosper everything I ever said was about our intent and the condition of our hearts so please explai what you mean by I did it again and that I said Jesus was wrong
Posted : 1 Feb, 2012 04:35 PM
BTWQ, all those passages that speak about being rich and having money are not speaking against such, but theye are PRINCIPLES FOR LEARNING FOR US TO LIVE BY, NOT JUST FOR THE RICH OR THOSE WHO ARE FINANCIALLY SECURE AND STABLE, BUT ALSO FOR THE POOR WHO DO NOT HAVE A DIME TO LEARN WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO LIVIING.
Bieng poor and not being content is a worse sin, than being prospoers financilly in your hard work and having money. Otherwise, why is everybody who doesn't have money and are not prosperous trying to make money? Why isn't everyone content with what they have instead of wanting a raise on their jobs, or seeking new jobs to make more money? WHY NOT BE CONTENT WITH WHT YOU HAVE...
God said look at the ant, you sluggards, and LEARN FROM THEM. Prosperity comes from hard work, and contentment is a learned behavior as Paul describes in Philippians chapter 4, until you can do better, but CONTENT SURE DOES NOT MEAN COMPLIACY!...SITTING BACK THINKING GOD DESIRE YOU TO BE POOR AND NEEDED AND WITHOUT....THAT'S A LIE FROM THE PENTHOUSE OF HELL!
Pj can you please explain to me to where I am not having to guess at what you mean, when exactly did I acuse Jesus of being wrong? I acused you of being wrong and I plainly p;ainly stated that I do believe we will prosper everything I ever said was about our intent and the condition of our hearts so please explai what you mean by I did it again and that I said Jesus was wrong
Posted : 1 Feb, 2012 04:42 PM
Ella:applause:
God does not want his people to be Poor!
How could we help someone else in fiances if Everyone
Pj can you please explain to me to where I am not having to guess at what you mean, when exactly did I acuse Jesus of being wrong? I acused you of being wrong and I plainly p;ainly stated that I do believe we will prosper everything I ever said was about our intent and the condition of our hearts so please explai what you mean by I did it again and that I said Jesus was wrong
Posted : 1 Feb, 2012 04:43 PM
I never ever ever said money was evil in fact I went to great lengths to express that my daddy the godlies man I know is a wealthy man and that God had prosperd him, all I ever said is if the intent of your heart is to get rich and you are not giving with a cheerful heart but rather "investing" so that you will recieve a return fron the lord, ie sewing a seed FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE of making money that is evil in its self why in the world cant you adress that one point pj and Ella my dear I know He didnt say we had to be poor but just cause someone is poor doesnt mean anything and someone may think I ampoor but I am not I am extremly rich spiritualy and I am well taken care of by God!
But again and for the last time I never said money or having money was evil I said the intentions of a so called evangilist to trick the poor into sending in money just for the sole purpos of making moneyu is evil and the poor person who sent in the money for the sole purpops of making money is also evil
I am done with this nobody is listeniong to what I am trying to say
thansk dona and agapewton for your support I know we dont always agree I dont know why PJ keeps wanting to argue with me if I am talking about money and he is not then why does he keep saying I am wrong?? its completly insane
Pj can you please explain to me to where I am not having to guess at what you mean, when exactly did I acuse Jesus of being wrong? I acused you of being wrong and I plainly p;ainly stated that I do believe we will prosper everything I ever said was about our intent and the condition of our hearts so please explai what you mean by I did it again and that I said Jesus was wrong
Posted : 1 Feb, 2012 05:24 PM
Elisha, you're bascially saying what I said, howver there are those who think God does not proser believrs with financial security. Even the rich man is poor, just as the poor man who desnot have money. As Solomon spakes what one has or accomplishes is all vanity anywayzzz because you die and leave all that you have worked for to those who have not worked a day in their life to gain anything, and they misuse what is left to them.
My point is how others believers condmen and judge those believers who have been exalted by God with prosperity financially, yet they still give and use their money wisely sharing with those in need. And many of those who do judge and condemn don't give out of their poverty as we see in 2 Corinthinas chapter 9 that Paul spekas about... That's my point.
Solomon tells us that no matter how much you have in riches the greatest riches anyone can have is to know God and have His godly wisdom in taking care of what one has. We are also taught that the rich amn and the poor man have more in common than they realize. But thetruth of the matter is, that both the rich man and the porr man are born, they both grow old, and the both die and are buried. We also know that both can be destined for heaven and both can be destined for hell. Or one can enter the kingdom and the other one may not.
The focus is GOD in all things whether a person is rich or poor, and if one is prosperous in thier hard work they should always give God the praise and glory for His blessings and rewards. Its as if the word prosperity is a sin or a bad word that Christian believers are nto to use or experience and this is NOT THE TEACHINGS OF SCRIPTURES.
My comments were not toward you in particular, but in response to the whole idea that many have MADE when a believer has money or is prosperous, saying that it is not what God desires of them... this is not what God teaches whatsoever. Its the focus and what one does with what they have that matters to God as a cheerful giver of what one has in return for the blessings God has bestowed upon them.
Pj can you please explain to me to where I am not having to guess at what you mean, when exactly did I acuse Jesus of being wrong? I acused you of being wrong and I plainly p;ainly stated that I do believe we will prosper everything I ever said was about our intent and the condition of our hearts so please explai what you mean by I did it again and that I said Jesus was wrong
Posted : 1 Feb, 2012 05:33 PM
BTW, how do you or anyone know that the people who give to these rogues on television are poor?? And hwo do you know or anyone know who God is blessings the for their giving out of their faith believing? After all God is a man of His word, doesn't matter if a person is a saint or a sinner and has faith in operation(action) God says He will act according to His word and the works of the persn who believes by faith. So you can't take that from God or those who operate in their faith.
You nor I know if these people are poor who give, becasue no one has told you or I that those who give to the evenagelist are poor. As far the televanglist who beg for money with their lies, that's between God and them, but it doesn't lessens God's promises to those who give, and we have no idea what the intent of their hearts are, wheher its becasue they seek to gain more or they give in obedience and out of theoi own poverty to be blessed and rewarded as God has promised to all those who give cheerfully for the works of the ministry without worrying about how the money will be used or who gets the money, or what it is to be used for... many people give out of obedience ragrdless of the lie, becasue God said He will take care of the lie and the liars.
Pj can you please explain to me to where I am not having to guess at what you mean, when exactly did I acuse Jesus of being wrong? I acused you of being wrong and I plainly p;ainly stated that I do believe we will prosper everything I ever said was about our intent and the condition of our hearts so please explai what you mean by I did it again and that I said Jesus was wrong
Posted : 1 Feb, 2012 05:41 PM
never ever ever said money was evil in fact I went to great lengths to express that my daddy the godlies man I know is a wealthy man and that God had prosperd him, all I ever said is if the intent of your heart is to get rich and you are not giving with a cheerful heart but rather "investing" so that you will recieve a return fron the lord, ie sewing a seed FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE of making money that is evil in its self why in the world cant you adress that one point pj and Ella my dear I know He didnt say we had to be poor but just cause someone is poor doesnt mean anything and someone may think I ampoor but I am not I am extremly rich spiritualy and I am well taken care of by God!
You have continually said you do not believe this truth so why do say to prove it.
The word of God is full of this truth and examples.
Pj can you please explain to me to where I am not having to guess at what you mean, when exactly did I acuse Jesus of being wrong? I acused you of being wrong and I plainly p;ainly stated that I do believe we will prosper everything I ever said was about our intent and the condition of our hearts so please explai what you mean by I did it again and that I said Jesus was wrong
Posted : 1 Feb, 2012 08:52 PM
NO PJ I HAVE SPECIFALY SAID I KNOW AND BELIEVE GOD WILL PROSPWER HIS PEOPLE, how can you tell me what I believe?
And ella I am not saying al the people are poor I am saying that most definatly some of them are and my grandmother Gd rest her soul was fooled into all that stuff they always wanted her money and she had very little the letters they sent her always promised some specific blessing and it was obvious that they were sending these letters out in bulk to everyone on their mailing list!
My point is every evangilist isnt greedy ans every person who mails in money idoesnt have the wrong heart I was speaking specifcaly about those who ARE doing these things there most crtainly are those out there that use Gods name in such a way that is evil I KNOW THAT IT DOES HAPPEN I am not saying they all do it .
as far as joel osteen I simply goes all I ever said about him is he is a buisness man!
MY problem with any of it is only with the aspect of the prosperity people (not all of them ) that are only in it for what they can get out of it I am not saying all prosperity folks believe that I cetainly believe in prosperity for the children of God the earth is the Lords and the fullness there of!
So I am not saying they all are guilty and I am not acusing anyone in pariticalar I am jast saying it happens and it happens ALOT!!!
Thats all I am saying it does happen and that its wickness at work
Pj can you please explain to me to where I am not having to guess at what you mean, when exactly did I acuse Jesus of being wrong? I acused you of being wrong and I plainly p;ainly stated that I do believe we will prosper everything I ever said was about our intent and the condition of our hearts so please explai what you mean by I did it again and that I said Jesus was wrong
Posted : 1 Feb, 2012 09:15 PM
NO PJ I never said that I always said if the intentions were wrong, I never one time said if a cheerful giver gives as unto the Lord they wont be blessed I never ever said thaty I also never said that if you give like you should as far asa tithwes you wont be blessed and Ella you are so right the Lord is not slack on his promises He does promise to take care of us
all I have said is that its wrong to just give with the sole intention of recieving PJ I am sorry if you misunderstood maybe you have a comprehansion deficit (i am being serious not trying to cut down at all) if thats the case I am extremly sorry I have my disabilities too but I really dont think you are comprehending me so I will say it again I do believe in prosperity in every aspect of the believers life
I just dont believe that if you have the wrong heart about giving thjat is if you are giving with the SOLE INTENTION of recieving that you are in Gods will nowhere des the word say give just so you can recieve
we are to be giving with a cheerful heart as unto the Lord whether we prosper or not through good times and iin bad just like job , he honored God no matter how increased he was and no matter how decresed he was it shouldnt matter if we are rich or poor if all he does it meet our needs thats all that matters anything extra should be an opportunity to gove something extra
and PJ I will also say this and I know you are going to start wih your atacks on me again but I know something about one of these word of faith evangilists something from very personal level you see I posted those articles about ONE Markus Bishop and you jumped in to defend him but if he repents thats between him and God but you see my Daddy is a godly man he is also the biggest roofing contractor i n Panama City and just happend to be the one who put the roof on the 10,000 dollar home that this man wanted to have as parsinage status and not have to pay taxs on it
And maybe I am in sin for saying it but yes I resent him HE tried his best to ri[p my daddy off my Dad is a chirstian man and the Lord has prospered him to high levels he has plent and wants for nothin he buys his cars brnd new and he doesnt believe in making payments so he pays cash for them thats what the Lord has done for him
But markus bishop hired my daddy to roof a 10,000 squar foot house and half way into the job decided not to pay he tried very hard to wiggle out of a HUGE chunk of money my daddy had worked for and also bought materials and you can imagine the cost on a house that size probaly 5 to 10 times the size of most peoples house that are reading this
So if I am sinning then I will repent if the lord reveals it to me but PJ you are not the Lord and I dont need you to tell me when I have sinned I am teling you that man has robbed so many people and he is selling his books and spreading his poison and i think you PJ are a member of his little word of faith group and my dear brother I hope i am wrong I hope yoyu are not into the word of faith movement that is unless its a diffeent one from the markes bishop one !1 These people are motivated by greed dear they are its aparent and what I am saying is thrue he has ripped of many many people including the IRS and attemted to rip off my daddy, and my child hoor friends mother and that made my friends child hood very bad and she ended up being strtrung out on drugs and I believe it all began with markus bishup and him taking peoples money his corruption and greed has reached many people and brought destruction
so like I saif you will know the tree by the fruit it bares and HIS FRUIT IS ROTTEN
I have no problem exposing him for the snake hge is and I would be leary of anyone claimin g the word of faith movement! It is motivated by greed from the very core of the felowship of churches the leaders are grredy ivaing taxes and there churches being forclosed on and so on and so forth so yeah I got a bad taste in my mouth because of it I recognize lies when I hear them the same way I recognize truth when I hear it
BUT i will say it one more time for those of us you didnt get it the first 10000000 times I DO BELIEVE IN PROSPERITY I DO BELIEVE THE LORD WILL PROSPER HIS CHILDREN I DO I DO I DO
You are in no position to tell me what I do and dont believe PJ you are over stepping the line
Do you know who makrus bishop is?? have you read his books??? Is that why you been getting so mad at me because i exposed him for what he was?
