Author	Thread: is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity...
Agapeton View Profile History	is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity... Posted : 23 Jan, 2012 01:01 PM Within the Scriptures? Seriously, I was just pondering about the wonders of our Lord and it suddenly dawned on me. The Scriptures really don't show a hierarchy within the Godhead anywhere in the Scriptures of the three essences with the exception of Jesus leaving all of His majesty, honor, authority, and power on the throne to become a man and be subject to the Father. But other than that part of the Scriptures ALL THREE ARE EQUAL in power and authority from one another. I honestly think that the only ones who separate the "authority" between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is mankind because we tend to put a "label" on something in order to make it easier to understand it on our human terms. What do you think? Is there such a thing as a hierarchy between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in the Scriptures? If so, then please present the Scriptures to show it so that we may all learn from it. By the way, this is purely for discussion purposes and not to bash anyone's knowledge of anything here. So the Phorum Pharisitically minded people please be peaceable or stay out of the topic. Thanks for your responses in advance. :peace: Post Reply
elishabroadway View Profile History	is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity... Posted : 24 Jan, 2012 02:35 PM This is a good topic, very good question I would say that we have alwasy asumed God the Father as the hierarchy as "Father" implys that he would be the one in charge but when you start thinking about it, what would be the need in a Head? The trinity all 3 in 1 have the same mind however different personalitys! But Jesus said he came to do the will of the Father and he spoke of doing the will of the one who sent him! Now this IMPLY'S that God the Father came up with the plan and sent the son which would imply that God the Father would be the head of the trinity! But like building a house the deisgner designs and the builder builds but neither one is more important than the ohter or less important than the other , they are both a must in order to build the house God the Father desgined the plan of redemtion Jesus God the Son came and actuly carried out the Plan or the Will of the Father, but with that in mind it doesnt mean nessacarly that God the Father is in charge, except for the fact that He is the Father absolutly implys that He is the Leader but again what is the need within a perfect God 3 in 1 for a leader or higherarchy no reason for one because they have the same mind and they are both perfect?? Dont agapeton but its a great question worth investigating thanks for bringing it up brother:applause: Post Reply
Agapeton View Profile History	is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity... Posted : 24 Jan, 2012 02:40 PM Agaepton, this is my comment regarding your question: is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity? Ella says: BY definition of the word GOD-HEAD, lets us know within the Trinity, that God is the HEAD of His OWN Divine order and divine nature and His OWN HIERARCHY. This also lets us know that Jesus Chist and the Holy Spirit are subordinates in the devine diety of who God the Father is, and who God the Jesus is, and who God the holy Sprit is in realtionship to the Trinity, YET they are all ONE. I like this from our church's statement of faith: We believe that in the unity of the Godhead, there are Three Personas: GOD THE FATHER, GOD THE SON, and GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT; equals ONE, in every Divine Perfection, executing distinct but, harmonious offices in the great works of redemption of mankind. ME: This is WHY I asked you this: ET, can you show me WHERE the Bible shows a distinct hierarchy within the trinity, please? By the way, this is the definition of Godhead. 1. Divinity; godhood. 2. Godhead a. The Christian God, especially the Trinity. b. The essential and divine nature of God, regarded abstractly. There is no hint of hierarchy within that definition, sister. So again, we see that all three are completely equal to one another. There is no hierarchy from what I see. But thanks. You said the definition of the Godhead was one thing and also said that Jesus and the Holy Spirit " are subordinates in the devine diety". You contradicted the definition and I'm asking for a definitive verse to show that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are SUBORDINATES. Post Reply
View Profile History	is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity... Posted : 24 Jan, 2012 02:46 PM No I don't see that. How many thrones are there? Why is a man under God have such problem with authority The only with an attiitude with authority is the rebel himself Post Reply
Agapeton View Profile History	is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity... Posted : 24 Jan, 2012 02:50 PM GodsJude Posted:*** Absolutly !!!...Jesus told His apostles...I cant remember what scripture at this time...He came to Serve...he striped down and gurded Him self with a towel and began to wash the Desiples feet as He explained to them many things about Serving each other...Who is Leader let him Serve...etc...etc...etc...Its All about Love for others...Jesus said if you Love Me you will keep my commandments...Love one another as I have Loved you... ME: Amen, sister! We are all to love and serve one another to the point of death, if need be. That is what we are to emulate. The same love, honor, authority, and intimate, relationship WITHIN the Godhead. Great example! Out of couriousty...When you go to visit someone on the spur of the moment in todays times...do ya get offered a drink of water or a bite to eat ???...I rarely do...I must ask to be served...May I have a glass of water?...When people come to visit me I offer all I have which isnt much...even ifin I gota cook it...Do unto others as you would have done unto you...Right ?...even ifin they dont know how to be giving...We give to just give...because of Love...xo ME: In all out honesty, I'm an Italian born man who got taught that we feed people even if they aren't hungry at my house. There is a saying in the Vavalle family. If you go to the Vavalles asking for money, you will walk out with empty pockets but your stomach will be full. :laugh: I usually have people coming to my place a lot cause i cook for them no matter what time. My mom was a loving woman and did that. I merely emulate the Love of Christ by doing the same thing He does by inviting others to the great supper. Great point! Post Reply
View Profile History	is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity... Posted : 24 Jan, 2012 02:52 PM Bottom line is, its all about being submitted/submissive to authority, becausee if a person cannot submit to those in authority over them in humility whom they see, they also cannot submit themselves to the will of God and His divine authority over them, who they cannot see. I Peter 2:13-17. Submit yourselves for the Lord�s sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority, 14 or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right. 15 For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men.16 Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but [use it] as bondslaves of God. 17 Honor all men; love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king. Romans 13:1-7. Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. Colossians 3:22-2522 Slaves, (servants, employees) obey your earthly masters (empolyors) in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to curry their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. 23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, 24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. 25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism. Post Reply
View Profile History	is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity... Posted : 24 Jan, 2012 02:57 PM 1 Jo 5:7~ For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. *** In human order of the translation...Father is listed 1st then Word (Jesus) 2nd then Holy Ghost 3rd...and in... 1 Jo 5:8~ And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. *** In human order of tanslation again...Spirit is listed 1st then water 2nd then blood 3rd...All are so very Important in Both verses obviously...this is the Closest to showing a "Order" or "Hierachy" and of the Trinity...xo Post Reply
Agapeton View Profile History	is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity... Posted : 24 Jan, 2012 03:00 PM Elisha, thanks. See the way i see it, we see Jesus being a man and obeying the Father here on earth but we also see that Jesus is EQUAL to God the Father according to Phillipians 2:6 and THEN BECAME LOWLY by coming to earth and doing the work needed. But in essence they are the same and have the same authority. Now since Jesus is equal to the Father, then the Spirit, who has the same authority as Jesus,m is also equal in the Godhead. Now since Jesus gave us this authority to emulate to the world of the same community, then we too, are of the same authority and are not one greater than each other. With that being said, we should hold no rank over one or the other now. We are all kings and priests. No lower hierarchy there. Equal through and through. So now if we the Body are the fullness of Him (Eph. 1:23), then we too are to interact JUST LIKE THE GODHEAD. You agree? Post Reply
View Profile History	is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity... Posted : 24 Jan, 2012 03:05 PM P. S. ...Yummy...Whens dinner ???...I love Italian...:eat:...xo Post Reply
Agapeton View Profile History	is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity... Posted : 24 Jan, 2012 03:07 PM ETcallhome Posted: Bottom line is, its all about being submitted/submissive to authority, becausee if a person cannot submit to those in authority over them in humility whom they see, they also cannot submit themselves to the will of God and His divine authority over them, who they cannot see. ME: Sister, has it dawned on you that I'm not disputing the higher authorities of the WORLD here, and am trying to speak of the HEAVENLY COMMUNITY THAT WE ARE TO EMULATE WITHIN THE BODY OR CHRIST? Are you on the same page here? God's people are not to govern themselves as the nations do. It was supposed to be like that from the beginning. 1Sa 8:4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah 1Sa 8:5 and said to him, "Behold, you are old and your sons do not walk in your ways. Now appoint for us a king to judge us like all the nations." 1Sa 8:6 But the thing displeased Samuel when they said, "Give us a king to judge us." And Samuel prayed to the LORD. 1Sa 8:7 And the LORD said to Samuel, "Obey the voice of the people in all that they say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected me from being king over them. Post Reply
View Profile History	is there ANY evidence of a hierarchy WITHIN the Trinity... Posted : 24 Jan, 2012 03:10 PM Agaepton, you keep going around in circles trying to prove somethings that the meaning of the word GODHEAD HAS ALREADY stated and proven, that God's divine nature and HEADSHIP of His OWN Hierarchy and the Trinity. Spiritual common sense tells us this throught the diet of who God has already shown Himself to be. The word tells us who is head of the Godhead, and the diety of Jesus as being God Himself, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit in the beginning of the foudnation of the world according to Genesies. So what's your spiritual insightful point? The word Godhead is only made mention of how many times in the Bible??... and your definition you have posted tell us of the divine meaning of the divine doiety of God? But the diety of Jesus Christ is mentioned thorughout the word of God from Genesise to Revelation. All refernces in scripture are clearly implied for spiritual understanding of the divine nature and diety of God incarnated as Jesus, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spriit as being as I posted from our church's Statement of Faith, three personas ( personalities), with three different offices of work, YET THEY ARE STILL ONE IN DIVINE ORDER AND NATURE. There is not much else to say if a person understands the diety of Jesus Christ and that He is God Himself incarnated... Post Reply

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