Thread: The Old Testament Evidence that Jesus is The Messiah.
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The Old Testament Evidence that Jesus is The Messiah.
Posted : 28 Jul, 2011 03:06 PM
Continued ~
Archimedes Posted ~ Think about this:
Jesus was a Real Man -- History Proves that.
What is in the Bible is Historically Accurate.
That means that that there are Only Three Possibilities When it comes to Jesus Christ.
Either Jesus was a Raving Lunatic...a Mad Man�out of His mind. Deluded and Deceived.
Or a Conspirator�a Magician�Deceiving everyone and it was all just a Conspiracy (which is what I believe the Jews believe)...
Or Jesus was Exactly Whom He Said He was...The Living Son of God!
Those are the Only Possibilities!
Now we just have to discuss these Three possibilities.
Jude Replies ~ Well I know in my Heart of Hearts that Jesus isn�t a Raving Lunatic as the Pharesees/Saducees would have us believe�and He isn�t a Magician deceiving anyone�He was up front and personal with Everyone even the Pharesees/Saducess...Soooo�from reading the Historical Documents in the Bible Especially Isaiah, I have found Him to be Exactly Whom He SAYS He IS�.Soooo now how does a person go about using the OT & NT for that matter to Show the Evidence that Jesus is the Messiah ??? Anyone ???
The Old Testament Evidence that Jesus is The Messiah.
Posted : 29 Jul, 2011 05:24 PM
Archimedes, I may not have replied to a post of your's, or someone else's because when I read it it struck me as having been written by an unruly child. I don't argue with children, people who make debates personal and sling insults, or those clearly not in possession of the intelligence required to participate as an equal of mine. Not saying this applies to you, just when I may not respond to someone, that'd be my reason. Or it can be as simple as with many replies, I didn't see a need to respond to every single one.
The Old Testament Evidence that Jesus is The Messiah.
Posted : 29 Jul, 2011 05:36 PM
@SavedinChrist71 There were many 'messiahs' in Biblical times. Messiah simply means annoited one, and every ruler was annoited as a ritual like our President gets sworn in as a ritual. Don't confuse every occurence of the word messiah in the OT as being about The Messiah.
As to your Daniel passages, I'm not concerned with anything they'd say for the simple reason that even if Daniel means Jesus the simple and inescapable facts remain that according to Daniel and others same prophecies about the onea nd only Messiah, Jesus didn't fulfill a single one. Didn't rebuildthe 3rd Temple, recall all the worlds Jews to Israel to live under full Torah observance, etc. To say nothing of how we're all here right now ~2000 years debating the matter when if the Messiah HAD come you'd expect other things to have occured too like the stuff in Revelations.
I have no issue with people wanting or believing Jesus was the Messiah because for me secure in my disbelief, those with the belief effect my own beliefs about as much as an anthill over in Africa effects my day to day life - which is to say it doesn't effect me in any way shape or form. My thing is only when Tanakh texts get fiddled with so erroneously that some insert the name Jesus into a text that everyone knows never mentioned it. Be like Muslims taking the NT, pasting it to the Qur'an, then retroactively claiming Mohammed is the Messiah or something else that you'd likely be rather irked over. ;)
The Old Testament Evidence that Jesus is The Messiah.
Posted : 29 Jul, 2011 06:44 PM
Jeff,
This is for you (I'll start a new Thread if you'd prefer).
My Question that you have not replied to is
" Why would ANYONE be willing to Die for a Madman or a Deceiver? Especially in such Horrible ways? All one had to do was DENY CHRIST!!!!! Simply to DENY HIM!!!"
No big deal�you Deny Him and then go back to Believing! WHY DIE for HIM????
Is there any man in Jewish History that THOUSANDS�nay�HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS have been willing to DIE FOR that man?
I do not think I am acting like an unruly child and I have not insulted you (it was not intended).
Your reply would go a long way to clarifying your integrity and sincerity.
The Old Testament Evidence that Jesus is The Messiah.
Posted : 29 Jul, 2011 07:36 PM
Jeff wrote - "@SavedinChrist71 There were many 'messiahs' in Biblical times. Messiah simply means annoited one, and every ruler was annoited as a ritual like our President gets sworn in as a ritual. Don't confuse every occurence of the word messiah in the OT as being about The Messiah."
Jeff, There may have been many messiahs, but there is only One Messiah that is recorded in the Bible. Only one Messiah was prophesied to come to Israel and the World. And I know of no Biblical prophet or Book in the OT that speaks of many messiahs, but only the One. Daniel spoke of that One. Isaiah spoke of that One, as did Micah. What other Messiah is there other than "The Messiah" spoken of by the prophets? Did they speak specifically of other Messiahs that would be the Saviour of Israel and the world?
Jeff wrote - "As to your Daniel passages, I'm not concerned with anything they'd say for the simple reason that even if Daniel means Jesus the simple and inescapable facts remain that according to Daniel and others same prophecies about the onea nd only Messiah, Jesus didn't fulfill a single one. Didn't rebuildthe 3rd Temple, recall all the worlds Jews to Israel to live under full Torah observance, etc. To say nothing of how we're all here right now ~2000 years debating the matter when if the Messiah HAD come you'd expect other things to have occured too like the stuff in Revelations."
If by "them", you are referring to the NT writers, I only brought them up to ask if you thought what they wrote was a fabrication based upon the OT prophesies of the coming Messiah. Jesus most certainly did fulfill that which was written of Him as He came into this world and of His being crucified. Your belief is what got Israel into trouble when Jesus came the first time. They were expecting a King, a Messiah that would save them from their enemies. They did not expect the Son of a carpenter, who would later die for the sin of their disbelief. Look again at Daniel's vision-
"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."
Who is the one that can end sin, who can make reconciliation for sin, who can bring in everlasting righteousness, who can seal up vision and prophecy and who is worthy to be anointed as the most Holy? Is this not your Messiah? Is this not the "Messiah the Prince" of Daniel's vision? Is this not the Messiah who Isaiah wrote of in 53:5?
"But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."
Who else in Scripture or what other 'messiah's have made reconciliation for our sins? Again, I ask you, who is Messiah the Prince in Daniel 9:25? Who is this Messiah that is qualified to fulfill those things that are determined in Daniel 9:24? Search history; see when the temple was rebuilt and Jerusalem restored. See that Daniel was right on in his prophetic words written in chapter 9. Messiah the Prince came after 69 of Daniel's 70 weeks, from the time the decree went forth. He was cut off [crucified]. And then, just as Daniel had written, Jerusalem was sacked and the Temple destroyed.
Those things written in Revelation will not come to pass until the 70th of Daniel's 70 weeks. Jeremiah speaks of this time as Jacob's Trouble. The Messiah you and Israel look for will return as King, at the end of the 70th week and fulfill those things you look for. That is - to finish the transgression, to make an end of sins, and to bring in everlasting righteousness. This is the same Messiah that came before "the city and the sanctuary" were destroyed in AD70.
