The great themes of the Scriptures start in Genesis and end in Revelation; where we get in trouble, as a Church, is to start imposing separations and systems that just aren't there. One way that we do this is by placing a great divide between the Old and New Testaments. To not see great continuity between the Testaments one has to contort the scriptures to absurdity - thankfully most in Christendom aren't consistent enough to accomplish that, even though their stated positions do. One such contortion is to read The Great Commission and Evangelism as a completely NEW, and thus unique, call to the Church. However, Evangelism is not new, it has been a part of the plan since the beginning. Here are some examples:
Israel being called to faith and repentance: Deut. 30:8; Josh. 24:15; Lev. 5:5; 16:29-31; Deut 10:16; Ezek. 18:30-31;
Israel being called witness to their children: Deut. 6:7, 20-25;
Israel being called to witness to their neighbors: Jer. 31:34;
David's call to witness to the nations: Ps. 18:49;
David's prayer that salvation would be known among all the nations: Ps. 67;
David's confidence that all nations would be converted: Ps. 22:27;
The missionary work of the prophets: Isa. 2:2-4; 19:25; 40:5, 9; 42:6; 45:22; 49:6; 56:7; 66:19; Zech. 8:23; cf. Ps. 68:31; 85:92;
So, clearly, it is established that Evangelism was prescribed and practiced in the Old Testament; but what does that buy us? It gets us several things:
The consistent Character of God. Same God, same work, same destiny. This means, then that there has always been one plan of redemption, no changes, and no accidents.
More proof that God's Word (and Law) applies to all people, in every time, everywhere. There is a modern error afoot that teaches that all has been abrogated until reinstated in the New Testament. This is a more "palatable" form of Dispensationalism and one that is counter-Scriptural.
It further lends proof to the idea that the New Testament is NOT a starting point, at least not in the same way it is held in the modern church. Now, granted most people would never admit this but practically speaking, especially when they ask the question "where do you see that in the New Testament", they are implicitly relying on this fallacy.
Understanding the above would also lend one to the understanding that God is at work and His work is large and grand - what He started in Israel is now EXPANDING to all the nations, and that's exciting.
In tends to inoculate us against the error that makes "saving lost souls" the primary concern and over-individualizing all things Evangelical.
Personally, I find it incredibility reassuring that Kingdom growth has always been a part of the plan Israel the Church, and that I get to live in the "last days" on the other side of the fulfillment of Genesis 3:15 to witness His Kingdom expansion. What a great time to be alive!!
Prior to my conversion to Judaism, I was a Franciscan seminarian, so yes, I acknowledge the NT. I simply don't regard it as part of Judaism, because of course it isn't. I don't object to it, it simply isn't part of my faith any more than the Qur'an, Vedic Hindu texts, or Book of Mormon is. I still read it from time to time, but when it comes to the Gospels, if not reading Matthew I actually like the apocryphal texts. Gospel of Thomas, Acts of Paul and Thecla, Infancy Gospels, recently discovered Gospel of Judas to name just a few.
James replies:
It is not that simple. Either the New Testament is the Word of God, or it is a LIE.
The book of Mormon is Hoax, as is the Koran. As are the apocryphal texts you mentioned.
The Word of God is the 66 Canonical books of the Bible and nothing else.
You seem to want to be fuzzy minded about the Word of God, and I would like to know why.
Jeff continues:
Note how tolerant James is everyone. How much he embodies the teachings of Jesus ordering me off-site.
James replies:
What is your definition of tolerance?
This is a Christian discussion group, and you are not Christian.
Jeff continues:
Funny how when it comes to tolerance, what he seems to object to is Judaism.
James replies:
I object to any and all false religions. But when it comes to Islam and liberalism I put them in a special category of evil.
Jeff continues:
Guess that we tolerate Christians, Muslims, and everyone else saying ya don't HAVE to be like us, believe what we believe, practice how we practice for God to love you and get into "heaven" scares him and his ilk to death.
James replies:
Uh, Jeff....I have a friend who was born and raised in Israel.
When he was in his twenties he accepted Jesus, and his family disowned him for it. He told me this is what happens when any Jew in Israel becomes a christian. He told me that if you are a drug addict or thief, or almost anything they forgive you, but if you become a Christian, you are disowned by the entire family.
So, lets not whine because I told you to leave the group.
Jeff continues:
Afterall, if ya don't HAVE to be a particular religion but just follow 7 no-brainer rules like don't steal or murder that'd mean...oh noes! Free thinking! Less tithes in the coffers! ...Dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria! ;)
James replies:
How about we deal with the Biblical evidence that Jesus is the Messiah?
The teachings of Jesus, the Prince of peace commanded us to always offer up the other cheek and to love all of our enemies. The only weapon followers of Jesus may use is the sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God.
2 Corinthians 10:3-5: For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have Divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ."
Luke 6:27-30: Jesus commands, "Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back."
Don't take what James said to be with malice, that's just James, and when you get to know him you will see that his bark is worse than his bite:laugh: James knows there were those who tried to run him away because of his Calvinist beliefs, but he's still here and they are gone.
Many on this site don't know who Jesus Christ is and these are they who confess and profess they are born again Chritians, yet they can't even discuss what it is they know about Jesus or the gospels effectively..
At least you have something to bring to the table for discussion in that, you know what you beliefe and why you believe what it is you believe, and can artiulate rather effectively your relious beliefs and know your scriptures.
I love you and God loves you just the way you are, but God loves you tooooo much to allow you to stay the way you are. You coming to this forum was not by accident, because nothing JUST happens... it was all apart of God's divine plan. He always send those H e desires to hear the gospel to those who claim to know the gospel, so you're here for a purpose and James nor anyone run you away until God's purpose and plans have been fulfilled through and in you.
James is a sweet guy and you will get to know him, he enjoys debate and will challenge you in a quick mniute to see if you know what or why a person says what they say, and will speak what might sound harsh but he's cool...
Your time hasn't come for your salvation, but it draws nigh, and at least you bring something to the table for discussion and know what it is you believe and why.
Many on this site say they know Jesus and are born again Christians, and they can't even tell you one things as to why, or what it is they believe or anything about the Old or New Testamnet and it prupose or how or God demonstrated His love toward them, and they were saved.
So keep expressing your thoughts and religious beliefs, we all will learn something, just as you will learn soemthinf rom what we speak about Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior, the only true God by whom you might be save and have eternal life in, and through His name.:glow::yay::dancingp::peace:
love ya,:hearts:
BTW, that was a goo done Richard... and if Jeff is a part of the 144,000, Jeff, remember, I would like for my mansion to be built on the culdesac where Jesus and the others will be living, next door or up or down the street, doesnt matter, just as long as I'm on the culdesac with Jesus and the apostles:ROFL:
I haven�t been following the Feud here but I would think that Jeff believes that Jesus was not The Messiah�not The Son of God.
If that is the case then there is going to be quite a difference in Beliefs! I seriously Doubt that anyone�s mind is going to be changed by �corresponding� or by Insults!
May I submit a Debate as to whether Jesus was The Messiah? Start a new Thread. All posts must stay on Point and deal only with evidence or arguments about whether Jesus was or was not The Messiah.
I would think that would go a long way to helping all of us better understand Our Beliefs.
Jeff, I have a question�did God call you to Become a Priest? Or was it just Gas? I mean, that is a Serious Undertaking! Most Priests do so because of a Powerful Sense of �Being Called� by God to make such a Sacrifice.
Did something happen at Seminary to �Anger� you or Cause you to �run away�. The dark one will do whatever it takes to try and thwart God�s Plan.
