Thread: Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
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Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
Posted : 29 May, 2011 09:09 AM
This is the surprise that I promised : The forgiveness of your sins are not dependent on your asking for forgiveness --- it is unbiblical.
I looked up 8 forms of the word 'forgive' every single place they occurred in the New Testament after weeding out a few that do not apply to the topic here is what I came up with:
Occurs 1 time --- *Forgiveness based on confession. (1John 1:9)
Occurs 4 times --- *Forgiveness based on the blood of Jesus. (Matt26:28 Eph1:7 Col1:14 Heb9:22)
Occurs 5 times --- *Forgiveness given based on nothing. (Matt9:6 Col2:13 Heb8:10-12 Heb10:16-18 1John2:12)
Occurs 7 times --- *Forgiveness based on Faith. (Matt9:2-6 Mark2:5-10 Luke5:20-24 Acts10:34 Acts13:39 Rom4:7-9 Jam5:15)
Occurs 8 times --- *Forgiveness based on as we Forgive others. (Matt6:12-15 Matt18:21-35 Mark11:25 Luke6:37 Luke11:4 2Cor2:7-10 4:32 Col3:13)
Kind a of Occurs 9 times --- *Forgiveness based on repentance. Note: Of the the first five none reference anyone interacting with Jesus, that leaves only 4 verses in Acts, meaning all but two where written by Luke and the two in Mark, one is about John the Baptist and the other a quote of Isaiah. (Mark1:4 Mark4:12 Luke3:3 Luke17:3-4 Luke24:47 Acts2:38 Acts5:31 Acts8:22 Acts26:18)
Forgiveness based on asking for forgiveness Occurs 0 times in the New Testament.
I submit to you that asking for forgiveness is a lack of Faith or Understanding of the Gospel. Your sins are already forgiven--- All Of Them---Past Present and Future! Therefore the only thing that remains for us is to receive Forgiveness through Faith and in turn Forgive others as Jesus has Forgiven us.
What about confession and repentance? This is really about Faith, about agreeing with God about our sin and turning to Him. Many think to repent means to turn from their sin, I disagree --- that is only half way. To repent is a 180� u turn, meaning turning from sin and to God. Just turning from sin is Not repentance ; it is only a 90� turn from sin.
Forgiveness is only found in believing Jesus already has forgiven you, confession and repentance is not as much about forgiveness as it is about you cooperating with God to remove sin from your life, sin that has Already Been Forgiven!
Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
Posted : 29 May, 2011 04:09 PM
Haha! He is a little thief! He steals our hearts with his abrupt bluntness and his horses....maybe it's just the horses.. Haha! Just kidding..love ya Two! :)
I can see how this would be a huge deal to Catholic people.
Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
Posted : 29 May, 2011 06:47 PM
Sorry had to leave...had company ....will you ever forgive me..:laugh:
Saved, you are to funny, yes I still catch my self asking for forgiveness and say hey wait a second ...then I rest in His forgiveness and get proscribe about praying about sin.
Browneyedgirl, How's this:
TS steals 200 dollars from Saved = Sin
TS admits to Saved it was wrong = Confession
TS needs money and gets a job = Repentance
TS goes to Saved and asks for forgiveness to which Saved replies "God has forgiven me much more, in fact so much more that I had forgiven you in my heart before you confessed"
Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
Posted : 30 May, 2011 04:20 AM
Gee, Two... thanks for such confidence in me that you would believe I had forgiven you before you asked. But where the heck is my 200 dollars? Forgiveness doesn't mean you get to keep it, ya little thief. And repentance doesn't mean you don't have to give it back. :laugh:
So what would happen if I don't forgive you? How does that affect my relationship with the Lord and Matthew 6:15?
Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
Posted : 30 May, 2011 06:34 AM
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
Jesus said in Luke 23:34 to the Father, Father forgive, they know not what they do.
Jesus said that, even to the father, speaking to him just as a son would speak to his father..asking him to forgive the people.
Twosparrows, if you are right then I'll have wasted some of my time asking the Lord to forgive me, if you are wrong then you risk leading people astray.
Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
Posted : 30 May, 2011 07:54 AM
Hello MS.Marvel:
What sparrow has written,i was shown this while reading and meditating upon the word some time back.
I believe these Scripture speak on this matter.
John 13:7 Jesus answered and said to him, What I am doing, you do not yet know. But you will know after these things.
John 13:8 Peter said to Him, You may in no way wash my feet to the age. Jesus answered him, If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me.
John 13:9 Simon Peter said to Him, Lord, not my feet only, but also the hands and the head.
Johnm 13:10 Jesus said to him, The one having been bathed has no need other than to wash the feet, but is wholly clean. And you are clean, but not all.
1John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of His Son Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.
Since i have been,cleansed form 'ALL SIN',which sin am i in need of asking for forgiveness of.
1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous that He may forgive us the sins, and may cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
The English word 'IF' has a conditional part to it.
I have to be doing something,That is CONFESS my sin(s).
1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous that He may forgive us the sins, and may cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Forgiveness is totally based upon the person doing the forgiving.
1. Does this person require of me'ANYTHING' in order to be forgiven.
2. Does this person have both the authority to forgive me of ALL of my sins.
3. Does this person also have the power do remove them from His presence and from my being.
4. Does this person have both the authority and power to change me from the inside out,making me something that i am not.
5. Does this person Love me,to place within me desires for Himself.
Desires that i do not have within myself.
6.Will my sins ever be brought back up again by the one FOREVER forgiving me.
Let us look to the Scripture,the Word of GOD.
1.Gen 22:8 and Abraham saith, `God doth provide for Himself the lamb for a burnt-offering, my son;' and they go on both of them together.
Psa 51:16 For Thou desirest not sacrifice, or I give it , Burnt-offering Thou acceptest not.
2.Mar 2:7 Why does this one speak blasphemies this way? Who is able to forgive sins, except One, God?
3.Mic 7:19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.
Isa 38:17 Behold, for peace I had great bitterness: but thou hast in love to my soul delivered it from the pit of corruption: for thou hast cast all my sins behind thy back.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Mar 2:10 But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority to forgive sins on the earth, He said to the paralytic,
Mat 28:18 And coming up Jesus talked with them, saying, All authority in Heaven and on earth was given to Me.
4. 2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
5.Psa 37:4 And delight yourself in Jehovah, that He may give you your heart's desire.
Hebrew for desire is:
delicateness, have delight self, sport self
A primitive root; to be soft or pliable, i.e. (figuratively) effeminate or luxurious -- delicate(-ness), (have) delight (self), sport self.
6. Jer 31:34 And they shall no longer each man teach his neighbor, and each man his brother, saying, Know Jehovah. For they shall all know Me, from the least of them even to the greatest of them, declares Jehovah. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sins no more.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
All of the above is the Workings of YHWH.
Man is just the recipient of His Forgiveness,Grace and Mercy
The Holy Spirit empowers each believers unto these.
Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
Posted : 30 May, 2011 08:58 AM
MsMarvel, I sense your words are heartfelt words, therefore I will address your post with the utmost seriousness.:
MM: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
TS: This verse is about confession, not asking for forgivness.
MM: "Jesus said in Luke 23:34 to the Father, Father forgive, they know not what they do. Jesus said that, even to the father, speaking to him just as a son would speak to his father..asking him to forgive the people.
TS: "What I see in this verse is God forgiving people because Jesus asked not because they asked --- isn't this what the Gospel all about? The forgiveness is already given, we just need to accept it. I also believe the more we are able to accept it, the more we will be able to pass it on to others.
MM : "Twosparrows, if you are right then I'll have wasted some of my time asking the Lord to forgive me, if you are wrong then you risk leading people astray."
TS : Thank you for such a sobering statement, it is a good reminder that I don't know who reads these posts. I would like to say that I do Not consider myself a teacher, I just submit to this forum for consideration what I see in Scripture. Some of it like the fallen angel stuff; I am just sharing bits and pieces as I research related topics, have have not reached any conclusions.
However ....
On this topic I am fairly certain by Scripture that God sometime says ' I wish these people would quit wasting their time and mine by asking for forgiveness when I have already proven beyond a shadow of a doubt they are already forgiven; why don't they believe and rest in my forgiveness? What more than giving my own son to I have to do to prove it to them? I would rather have them confess their sin and ask for true repentance :nicenurse:while resting and trusting I have already forgiven them, then we would be moving in a direction instead of around in circles.'
Granted some my confuse apologizing and asking for forgiveness...two different things. I think we should apologize and thank God for forgiveness that is all ready been given for all our sins past, present and future.
This is just my opinion that when we ask for what we have already been given it is a lack of Faith. I think if people could really get into their soul that they are forgiven of past present and future sins it would change their life and open them up to a exciting and abundant relationship with God they never imagined possible! --- You know THAT is why Jesus came.
Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
Posted : 30 May, 2011 09:25 AM
Okay, allow me to be blunt:
Either Jesus finished it at the cross or He didn't.
Either you are Forgiven or your not.
Jesus said ' No one who puts his hand to the plow and keeps looking back is fit for the kingdom of heaven.'
So why do so many look back at their sin and ask for forgiveness. God has put your sin behind his back, shouldn't you? His has removed it as far as east is from west, shouldn't you? We are human; we sin; God knows we are but dust and has compassion on us, so confess it, ask for help and move on. Knowing you are forgiven from past present and future sins opens the door to a great relationship with God who gives true repentance. This is the relationship God desires, it is not like a human relationship where one must continually ask for forgiveness --- No, God desires a relationship that transcends the bounds of human relationships.
Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
Posted : 30 May, 2011 12:36 PM
"Asking God for Forgveness is NOT Biblical ... So what shall we say to these things?.. Is this error of the Doctrine of Christ due to lack of proper teaching and spiritual understanding and insight as to the teaching of God's Word?
OR is this fales teaching due to lack of proper stuyding and reveltion from the Holy Spirit of God's Word, and 2sparrow's own personal INTERPRETATION and wisdom and knowledge of what he finds in scripture basd on what he thinks God has to say? I notice no scripture explanations or passage have been provided to support this theory... if this is not biblcal surely God has provided passages to inform us of this as He has done all other things.
OR is this heresy at its best due to lack of confession and repentance of sins in humility before God, and there rejection of God's truth takes place in order to cover ones sins, and use the fact that there no longer stands a need for repentance of sins AFTER salvation?
2sparrow are you saying that once a person has repented of their sins during the process of salvation the person no longer has a need to repent ever again for their sins as long as they live, because Jesus has already paid the sin debt on the cross?... And no matter how many times you sin, or how many sins you commit, you can go about your day knowing that they are taken care of by the blood of Jesus. Becasue God is not expecting us to come before Him anymore to repent... since we did that already upon being born again.
Asking God for Forgiveness is NOT Bibical --- (this is the surprise)
Posted : 30 May, 2011 01:13 PM
@ET
If you would,look at what has been posted.
look without making judgements before you understand what has been written.
I have also shared this very thing with you at least 3 times in recent past posts.
Forgiveness based on asking for forgiveness Occurs 0 times in the New Testament.
I submit to you that asking for forgiveness is a lack of Faith or Understanding of the Gospel. Your sins are already forgiven--- All Of Them---Past Present and Future! Therefore the only thing that remains for us is to receive Forgiveness through Faith and in turn Forgive others as Jesus has Forgiven us.
What about confession and repentance? This is really about Faith, about agreeing with God about our sin and turning to Him. Many think to repent means to turn from their sin, I disagree --- that is only half way. To repent is a 180� u turn, meaning turning from sin and to God. Just turning from sin is Not repentance ; it is only a 90� turn from sin.
Forgiveness is only found in believing Jesus already has forgiven you, confession and repentance is not as much about forgiveness as it is about you cooperating with God to remove sin from your life, sin that has Already Been Forgiven!
Sparrow is sharing what the Word of GOD says about forgiveness.
Our sins had been placed upon Yeshua,He is the atoning sacrifice.
Forgiveness is based completely and totally because of the shedding of Yeshuas blood.
Will i trust that i have been forgiven (Past tense)
I presently am forgiven.
I have already been forgiven of all future sins.
Where then is the need to be asking to be forgiven,when FORGIVENESS has alredy been rendered.
When will we trust that Yeshua finished what He was to be doing according to the will of the Father.
