If man has free will, then how is the Bible the Word of God?
Posted : 24 May, 2011 11:28 PM
ET said "so no mand does not have a free will to do anything except it be disobedience! " Isn't that the whole point of free will? the ability to choose to accept or deny the Word of God. The Bible says the following regarding free will concerning obedience.
2Th 1:5 For this is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God for which you also suffer,
2Th 1:6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay tribulation to those who trouble you,
2Th 1:7 and to give rest with us to you who are troubled, at the revealing of the Lord Jesus from Heaven with the angels of His power,
2Th 1:8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God and who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ,
2Th 1:9 who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
2Th 1:10 when He shall come to be glorified in His saints and to be admired in all those who believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that Day.
It is apparent that men have the ability to choose to obey the gospel or not. This is the whole crux of the doctrine of free will. Obedience requires the making of a decision. If people did not have this ability then all of their decisions would have to be made for them.
If man has free will, then how is the Bible the Word of God?
Posted : 25 May, 2011 07:12 AM
Ezekiel 3
16At the end of seven days the word of the LORD came to me: 17�Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; so hear the word I speak and give them warning from me. 18When I say to a wicked man, �You will surely die,� and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die fora his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. 19But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin; but you will have saved yourself.
20�Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. 21But if you do warn the righteous man not to sin and he does not sin, he will surely live because he took warning, and you will have saved yourself.�
If man has free will, then how is the Bible the Word of God?
Posted : 25 May, 2011 07:55 AM
When man was made he gave us a free will to make a choice. Man was perfect and Eve choose to eat of the apple. She was told not to and did. Adam did not have to eat of the apple. But did- free choice. A bad choice but free will.
Arch has it right, those men made a choice to write Gods word.
It is true that some of the books found were never finished for unkown reasons. maybe those authers did not get the chance to finish them.Dennis
If man has free will, then how is the Bible the Word of God?
Posted : 25 May, 2011 11:36 AM
George context is very simple all that context is saying is very simple, the word of God came from the father. nothing about the context says anything about man and his ability to choose or refuse but the bible is full of people doing both.
If man has free will, then how is the Bible the Word of God?
Posted : 25 May, 2011 12:45 PM
As James put (differently but even so) in another post, man in his fallen state is naturally pre-disposed towards evil, and because we are fallen, we are (were is more accurate for us) not free, but in bondage to sin.
Now with that in mind, free will is probably the ONLY freedom fallen man has: free in that he can choose to continue in his ways, or repent and accept Jesus as saviour and Lord; yet not fully free (as in equally balanced) because of his sinful nature. He needs something to tip the scales the other way (to have his eyes opened) because without that, he doesn't even recognise he can choose - he is truly 'dead' in his sin.
Before I became a Christian, I had no idea how bad I was - and I was only eleven so how bad could I have been at that point!? It's only when people started to tell me about Jesus, how good He was (and the Holy Spirit nudging me though I didn't recognise Him at the time) that I knew I had to choose whether to continue my life the way I wanted, as I had been doing, or to turn it over to God and let Him run the show. Thank God that I'm here 'cos knowing what I know now, the world and :devil: don't even come close!
If man has free will, then how is the Bible the Word of God?
Posted : 25 May, 2011 02:14 PM
Man does have free will.
A child is born a sinner and by nature desires to disobey their parents. How then do children listen and obey?
Children learn to both love and fear their parents enough to make the decision to obey.
God says throughout the Bible we are to be as little children and He also says we are to fear and love him.
That love of God and His Mercies, and fear of displeasing Him, is how those men obeyed God and wrote what He wanted them to.
The Bible says God is not willing that any should perish. If God automatically would decide who believes in Him and is thereby saved, He would also be making the decision to send many to Hell without a chance. Jesus died for all.....the Bible says that a LOT. It is up to every one of us to decide if we believe and except that.
If God controlled man's wills, than our sins would not be our faults because He would have made us do it.
The Bible says the serpent/Satan beguiled Eve into eating the fruit of the forbidden tree. If God controlled people's wills, He would be responsible for that too.
God says sin entered the world because of man, but if God controlls wills, sin would have entered the world because of God, which in turn would make God a liar.
Running on the logic that God controls wills, ends in blaspheming God. Frankly, some of the natural progression of logic here I was not comfortable even typing.
I can get exact verses for all of this if you want me to.
If man has free will, then how is the Bible the Word of God?
Posted : 25 May, 2011 02:41 PM
But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God." (2 Peter 1:20-21).
KJV 2 Peter 1:20-21
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
See thats where Bible version can cause you issues.
"For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man", man didn't just suddenly decide to do this .
"but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." #1 not just men....."holy men of God" the type of people that would fear and love Him as they are supposed to. And they spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Whatever version you have there makes it sound as though the Holy Spirit just moved these randomly selected men to be these direct channels of God and they couldn't do anything about it.
See....your version changed the phrase "holy men of God",
to "men", and that is what is misleading you. holy men would fear god....regualr men would not.
This is why new Bible versions can be dangerous. They change a word here....and there.....but it makes a much bigger difference than people usually notice. God warns people about adding to and taking away from the Word of God in the Bible (my Bible anyhow)KJV). A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump as the Bible says. Everything God does, He does perfectly, because He is perfect and cannot fail. He said He would preserve His Word to all generations. If He preserved His Word, I assure you He did it perfectly. The Bible refers to Jesus Christ as the Word of God. Jesus Christ is Perfect. Do you have the right Bible?
Satan, when speaking to Eve in the garden, did not outrightly say,"No thats not at all what God said!" Instead, He changed a few of the words which God had spoke, and caused Eve to question the truth. Satan is still at the same game today, but with Bible versions. Can people still be saved from the wrong bible versions? Luckily "YES" because most of them still CONTAIN God's words and the Bible says God's words will not return to Him void (ie:without effect).
