It has been my experience that the answer is no. We all know and understand that HaShem is order, and that all things that truly show His Light and Love are as well. I ask that if you can't follow the simple request placed before you, please don't post on this thread.
Any debate on the Laws of HaShem, goes off the deep end, with passage after passage being posted. In just one post we may find as many as 15 if not more. This is an unproductive way to handle this, or any topic. As it can leave any one wishing to reply, with little option, Leave a post that is pages long, or leave a vague post filled with even more passages and little substance. This is what leads to endless debate with no answers, as well talking in circles.
For this reason, it is always best to look at ONLY ONE PASSAGE at a time. Now once that passage is called up, Both sides must look at it from both sides. i.e. Be ready and willing to argue the points you don't follow.
If the only thing we do is push one side of a topic, we fail to really look at the other side, and in most cases, fail to even hear the other side. So here is my propose, it is open to every one that truly wishes to open their hearts and minds to TRUTH. Not my truth, not your truth, and not your churches truth. Rather BIBLICAL TRUTH.
As almost all study of OT vs NT is centered around the Law of HaShem, (Know here after as TORAH) the first thing that must be found is, "How valid is Torah today?" Not an easy answer for many.
So here we go.
When it comes to Torah, the one passage that comes up more than other is Mat. 5:17. So lets look closely at this passage.
(NLT) Mat 5:17 “Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose.
(KJ same passage) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
One must always take note of the passage opening. Here we are told not to think that something is Yeshua's reason for coming. From that we are safe to say that anything that follows, (until a change of topic) is what we shouldn't see as coming topass. After all He just THINK NOT, or in my words, (Don't put words in my mouth, or forget the important words I use.)
So let's do a full brake down of this passage. Looking at from both sides.
First we have THINK NOT, or Don't misunderstand. Both give the same thought behind the words. Just tell us not to entertain the idea that Yeshua came to do any of the following. So what is it he didn't come to do?
(KJ ) I am come to destroy the laws or the prophets:
(NLT) I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets.
If we read this passage for what it tells us, rather than what we wish it to say, we find that the Torah, and the Prophets are placed together. From this one should conclude that they work together, and we can not remove one from this passage with any hope of keeping the whole context of the passage.
Also, if we remove any part of this, then apply the new contextual meaning to the full passage, as well as any that may follow, do we not teach a lie, based on what we hope is true? SO any teaching on this passage must hold true to both Torah and prophets. With this understanding, one must walk carefully. If we say Yeshua removed the Law, nailed it to the cross, and so on, We also say that He has removed the prophecies that have not been fulfilled. Like His second coming, Judgment of all man kind, and many others.
(KJ) I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
(NLT) No, I came to accomplish their purpose
Now the most common word to be pushed by them that stand in opposition to Torah is the word FULFILL. So lets take a look at that word.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fulfill Has this to say.
a : to put into effect : execute He fulfilled his pledge to cut taxes.
b : to meet the requirements of (a business order) Their order for more TVs was promptly fulfilled.
c : to measure up to : satisfy She hasn't yet fulfilled the requirements needed to graduate.
d : to bring to an end she came to install herself and fulfill her time at the house— Willa Cather
2a : to develop the full potentialities of He has a lot of talent, but he hasn't really fulfilled his potential.
b : to convert into reality a sense of the failure of life to fulfill its ultimate expectations— Leslie Rees
3 archaic : to make full : fill her subtle, warm, and golden breath … fulfills him with beatitude— Alfred Tennyson
Now in this we find both sides, we find that it can mean to being to an end, yet we must ask, has it all been brought to an end? Are we wrong to say Yeshua will be coming back? After all He has brought to an end the Prophets, then that would also mean all prophecy has been fulfilled, or removed as they no longer hold meaning. i.e. there is no need for them.
Yet if we now look at this from a more contextual view, we know He must return for the WORD to hold truth. After all if any part of what the WORD tells us is not true, then we place our salvation in the hands of sin. Just saying.
We also know from the fact that Yeshua must come again, we must understand that He is still working to FULFILL scripture.
On the flip side.
At best I can here, so I leave something our please let me know.
This passage is clear that Jesus FULFILLED the Law, nailed it the cross, and removed it. He know that man kind can not live up to it's standards, and that to be held to that standard would leave us all devoid of hope. The passage is clear in that it tells us Jesus removed law. As is clear in your own use of Webster.
Here is a passage that is almost always used to show one thing, when if we stay with-in the context of the full passage holds a meaning that may seem like a new idea to many of you.
Gen 38:9 But Onan was not willing to have a child who would not be his own heir. So whenever he had intercourse with his brother’s wife, he spilled the semen on the ground. This prevented her from having a child who would belong to his brother.
When we first see this passage, many will think of master baiting. Yet that is not what is behind this. Please read the full story for your self.
As we all know, or should, Biblical law tells us that the Hebrew people are to keep the blood line going for a brother that passes with no male children as his heir, the following must be done.
Gen 38:8 Then Judah said to Er's brother Onan, "Go and marry Tamar, as our law requires of the brother of a man who has died. You must produce an heir for your brother."
Deu 25:5 "If two brothers are living together on the same property and one of them dies without a son, his widow may not be married to anyone from outside the family. Instead, her husband's brother should marry her and have in tercourse with her to fulfill the duties of a brother-in-law.
Deu 25:6 The first son she bears to him will be considered the son of the dead brother, so that his name will not be forgotten in Israel.
This can also be found in Matt. 22:24, and Mark 12:19
From here we will look at Laws that are found in the NT, yet come from the Torah. To stay with-in the confindes I set forth, and to save some time, I will simply list them. Then answer any questions, if any come up.
Yes, I remember that story, she eventually had to sleep with her father in law and he thought at first that she was a prostitute. She ended up bearing twins.
The point of looking at what I have is to build a good foundation for the rest. I will start looking at the Laws that came at Sinai tomorrow. Please keep in mind this has nothing to do with the Temple not being there, nor with any ideas of being removed, or not. This is looking only at the laws. Can we stay on that topic please. If not there is little reason to move forward at all.
As we all know and have been told in almost every church out there, "Good christains pay tithe. It is wrong to, and so on. Just as it is wrong to follow the Torah, HaShems laws were and replaced."
By what may I ask?
Yet when we look for any teaching on an OT law, (Meanings HaShem's law on tithe what do we find. Well some say that ICor 16 tells how we are to follow through with this. Although a true reading of this chapter tells us Paul is speaking about gifts, (that would be in some teachings an offering that goes above the norm.) Though as we can see in Lev. 27 the word tithe is not always used when speaking of it. So one must use their own judgment when thinking on, studying about, or giving tithe.
Next we will look at Sexu@l acts. Though some will say that is covered in the 10 commandments, and would be right to some extent, we are going to look at what isn't said in them.
As we all know, Ex. 20:14 tells us, ""You must not commit adultery." for many out there this is all we need to know. It covers every form of Sexu@l out there. Some would even add that it also covers idolatry. Both would be right. Yet some will say that once married, there is no wrong doing in any matters of sexu@lity. We are going to look at this in a short, and (hopefully) informative manner. Brush up folks, as this will move along fast as this not intended to be an in depth study.
I am not one to be PC, so this sight does cramp my still.The idea that there can be no Biblical conversation if the passages used hold a word not liked by the folks that host this sight. Don't get me wrong, I understand that there simply is no room for people to talk of $ex in a way that is vulgar, or insinuating.
So you may need to just read what I place before you.
If we hold that only the 10 commandments are valid, then open the door for things that are not ok, and are sinful even called an abomination in the Word.
Lev 18:22, and 20:13 show this.
Rom.1:27, and 1Cor. 6:9-11 attest to this still be on the books if we can say it that way.
When I return we will pick up Dietary Laws. I know this moving rather fast, just keep in mind we are simply placing the foundation we need right now. In time you will see that even the :Laws" that govern how we are to understand prophecy are found in this foundation.
The Dietary Laws for the most part can be found in Lev. 11. If you read it you can get a better idea of what it intales, and with a little study you can learn why. Many of the things we are told not to eat, are bad for us in some way. Others many people are allergic to. That however is out side the scope of this study. So lets get to it.
In acts 10, a chapter that may will say confirms the dietary laws have been removed. Though this is a misunderstanding, and shows that many use only a part of Scripture to make their point. Lets take a look and see.
This chapter opens speaking of Cornelius, telling us what kind of man he is. Verse 2, He was a devout, God-fearing man, as was everyone in his household. He gave generously to the poor and prayed regularly to God. in 5 we find, Now send some men to Joppa, and summon a man named Simon Peter.
We all know that Peters dream comes next. A dream where he is told to kill and eat. To many this is the deviance they need to push the dietary laws into closet and lock the door. What they will never do is try to understand the full chapter, and follow it into the next.
So what do we find when we do this? I do ask that you read all of 10 and 11, to see this in it's full context.
1- Act 10:14 "No, Lord," Peter declared. "I have never eaten anything that our Jewish laws have declared impure and unclean.
2- Act 10:15 But the voice spoke again: "Do not call something unclean if God has made it clean."
Now we must ask, what is it that HaShem has made clean? The answer is found in the opening of this chapter, and is reaffirmed here.
3- Act 10:28 Peter told them, "You know it is against our laws for a Jewish man to enter a Gentile home like this or to associate with you. But God has shown me that I should no longer think of anyone as impure or unclean.
Please not that at this time a Jewish person could be stoned for going into the home of a gentile. Once we open our hearts and minds to what the Word REALLY tells us we find a new understanding of the teachings we find inside.
When I post again, we will look at the Words of Yeshua that many say remove this simple and healthy law.
Mar 7:18 "Don't you understand either?" he asked. "Can't you see that the food you put into your body cannot defile you?
Just as before, once we read the full content of the chapter, the context of what this passage tells us changes. Or at lest it should. You see Yeshua was speaking to the washing of hands. It is a given that we all see good reason to do this, yet in way would it change what we eat. It doesn't turn a hotdog into chicken alfredo. Nor can it make unclean food clean.
Just knowing that this isn't about food to start with makes a world of difference in how one may see and understand this chapter.
Then we must also lok at the top understanding of those that teach a removal of Torah. Their teaching mandates that it only came about after His death and resurrection. Meaning that the act of changing the Torah would render Yeshua unfit to be our savoir. You see to be the final sacrifice for our sins, Yeshua had to both live the Torah perfectly, and up hold it as well.
Deu 4:2 Do not add to or subtract from these commands I am giving you. Just obey the commands of the LORD your God that I am giving you.
If Torah was to removed at His death, then to remove any part before that time would be sin.
