1 Corinthians chapter 13 says Love is not selfish, it does not seek its own way.
Therefore I ask you is it the way of Love, is it the way of God to force its way on someone? The question is Not if God has the right,...He does. The question is ; Is it God's nature?
Two - Oh but PJ, Calvinism takes loads of faith ; faith that Calvin and his followers have the one only correct interpretation of the Bible and God's plan from before creation to after the end of this world.
Ryan - It takes nothing of the kind. I don't follow Calvin or his followers anymore than yall because you defend Finney. Let's stay consistent here. I defend the scriptures which you all say to scrap because "we are just to believe and we must have a will and God must be fair to all". That is making a God of your own choosing. That is not the God of scripture. You have fashioned him into the fair god you always wanted.
it is very simple faith is inherent in every word of God, and that faith is expected to be acted upon, it is the truth thru out the whole bible,
In otherwords anyone can hear Jn 3:16 and do exactly what it says and be saved, it does not matter that some say it is not applicable,Jesus said it is.
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Hear, can man hear?
Posted : 15 Apr, 2011 12:38 AM
This one word is one of the simplest truth's, but yet vital truth's to mankind.
In the parable of the sower Jesus teaches mankind that this is how the kingdom of God operates and if you do not know and understand this parable, you will not understand any of the parables.
He says he that hath an ear to hear let him hear: we know there is more to this statement than having physical ears, it does not a choice to made by the hearer, in hearing it will require the hearer to believe what he hears, and ultimately act accordingly to what he has heard.
Mr 4:23 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
Mt 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Lu 8:8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
The parable of the sower is recorded in three of the four gospels, Mt. 13:18, Mr. 4:9, Lk. 8:4
These truths are for the sinner and the saint if you will study the parable of the sower, you will see there where four types of hearers, but of the four there was only hearer that produced good fruit.
The responsibility of all aspects of the teaching is on the hearer, if you will study this parable you will see this is how an individual is saved.
Hearing as with the intent to obey quickly
Believing with the heart (not the mind)
Acting in accordance to what you have heard and believed.
This is exactly what the fruitful hearer does, some say that faith is a gift, and that is not true, faith is an action following the hearing of God's word.
Faith cometh by hearing and hearing the word of God, faith is inherent in every word of scripture, so when you hear the word of God on a subject, faith for that truth cometh to the hearer, the hearer then chooses to believe, or not to believe.
Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
So as you meditate upon these truths you will realize that bible faith as mentioned in Romans 10:17 and the just shall live by faith, is an action
Faith is an action:
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Hear and be saved
Posted : 15 Apr, 2011 08:46 AM
Our text for this teaching is:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Romans 10 Verses 8 thru 17
The parable of the sowers teaches us all that is written in the apostles doctrine as to how one is saved.
First the word of faith is preached unto him as how to be saved:
Verse 9 says that if thou shalt confess with mouth the lord Jesus and believe with the heart unto righteousness unto righteousness.
So just as the parable teaches as man hears the word of God that he believes Jesus is the Christ, is lord, that seed of the word of God in his heart will produce faith and as he proclaims Jesus as lord, the holy spirit will then give him a new heart, a new spirit within him.
In verses 13 of Romans it say's he that calleth on the name of the lord shall be saved.
The definition of the word �save� in the literal Greek translation of the scriptures means to deliver, protect, heal, preserve or to make whole. The definition of the word �believe� from the literal Greek translation of the scriptures means �to have faith; to entrust, commit or to trust in�. The account in Acts says that Paul and Silas spoke the word of God to the jailer and members of his household, so there was teaching that was involved in becoming a believer and in being saved.
Man is delivered from the dominion of darkness into the kingdom of his dear son.
Here are two bible examples of this teaching:
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
2:37 � Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Acts 16:27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
acts 16:28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
Acts 16:29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
acts 16:32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
acts 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway
The bible doctrine how to be saved is established with these scriptures.
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Bible faith is an action:
Posted : 15 Apr, 2011 09:03 AM
Hebrews 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
4:1 � Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
2Co 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Ro 4:9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
Ro 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Ro 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
Ro 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Ro 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
Ro 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
I thought we were discussing God's nature...not Calvin or Finney...:rolleyes:
Isa 58:8 "Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy reward. 9 Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, [ Here I am.] [ If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity; ]
:glow:...Ima outa here...Yall hava a Blessed Weekend...xo
Well we are discussing God's nature but it seems some say that Calvinists cannot learn of God's nature through scripture, but that they only follow men.(An argument that is tired and been show to be hypocritical on numerous occasions)
PJ - In otherwords anyone can hear Jn 3:16 and do exactly what it says and be saved, it does not matter that some say it is not applicable,Jesus said it is.
Ryan wrote - "13As it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated". 14What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God�s part? By no means! 15For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." Romans 13:15"
All you Calvinists use Romans 9:13 as the cornerstone of this doctrine as if it somehow seals your argument that God does not love all of mankind..."As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." Personally, I believe this is a gross misinterpretation of Scripture for someone to wrap their doctrine around in order to believe that 'God hates'.
Jesus told us in Luke 14:26 - "If any [man] come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." Was Jesus really telling us to "hate" our parents, siblings and children? The same word "hate" used in Luke 14 is that used in Romans 9:13. No, Jesus wasn't telling us to "hate" them as He gave us the command to - "Honour thy father and [thy] mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." So what is the Lord telling us? He is telling us that, "He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." I believe the word "hate" as used in Romans 9:13 and Luke 14:26 is not defined as the hate that would be opposite of love. The passage in Luke 14 is simply telling us to not put our family [or anyone] before the Lord. It doesn't mean to "hate" them, as it is also written, "If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?" And it's my belief that God did not hate Esau as the Calvanist would have you believe in order to push their doctrine, but that God preferred Jacob over Esau. God had told Isaac that the great nation Israel was to come through Jacob, not Esau. And it would be in Jacob�s seed [not Esau's] to which the Messiah would come. Furthermore, if you read Malachi 1, from which Paul pulled his verse in Romans 9:13, Jacob is Israel and Esau is Edom. They are represented in nations. And God does show His anger and hatred for nations in that the sin that is evident in them. It doesn't mean He hates the individuals of those nations no more than He hates the individuals of Israel, yet hates the sin therein as we see time and again throughout Scripture. But nowhere do I find God displaying any hatred toward Esau [the individual]. There is simply no indication anywhere in the narrative of Esau's life that gives any impression that God "hated" him. God does not hate anyone. It's a shame there is even such a debate as this.
Jude - *** No ! It is not Gods nature to Force...( If ) it was...We would not have been given FREE WILL or a Choice in Anything...xo
Ryan - who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, but of God. John 1:13
You are in direct contradiction with scripture.
YIPPY...:dancingp:...Now were seeing Mans Nature...Now yer Talkin the Differance Betwix Mans Carnal Mind & GOD's Holy Spirit [Born Again]...Two Completely Differant Subjects...anywho...I get goin have a nice weekend...Ima goin fishin with Jesus as always...xo
I defend the scriptures which you all say to scrap because you just believe the Doctrines of Grace and interpret all Scripture in light of them. "We have no will, everthing is already decided, it is not about God's Love for mankind, but about God bringing more Glory to himself." That is making a God of your own choosing. That is not the God of scripture. You have fashioned him into the fair god you always wanted.
