Did you hear what the man, said about the man that trys to communicate spiritual things being logical, or employing logic in understanding spiritual matters.
Logic is like a log in the eye you see, or do you really see with the log in the eyes.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
From Thread � Jesus Teaches Monergistic Regeneration � Logic was brought up�and it goes with this Thread also�so 2 birds 1 stone�
LSUsports Shared ~ No sir. You would need to show that carnal man = logic. Good luck doing that.
*** There is no Word � Logic� in the Written or Spoken Word of GOD�but in Fact it does Exist�
Shared ~ Again I ask for scripture referring to logic itself, not carnal man. Surely you know there is a difference.
*** You can ask all you want and you will not find the Answer to your Question in the Bible�& yes I do know the difference�
Shared ~ Logic needs no proof. If the moon exists, it cannot not exist.
*** You are right�The Proof is in the Pudding�So to speak�When I cannot see the Moon�I still Know that it Exists�
Do you disagree with that simple fact or do you say that the moon MIGHT NOT EXIST?
*** I disagree with the Peoples Logic�it is Contrary to GOD�s Sovereignty�
*** And that�s Miss not Sir�lol�but thank you for being polite, I appreciate it�Speaking of Sun & Moon�can you Logically Explain this Happening and Reconcile it to your Logical Carnal mind ???�Homework is always Good for the Soul�
Josh 10:12-14
12~ Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, [[[ Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon. ]]]
13~[[[ And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, ]]] until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
14~ And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel.
The WORD Logic is not in the Bible�the Word Carnal is found in 10 Verses in the Bible which as a courtesy I will post below�and Mind occurs 95 times in 92 verses in the KJV and not 1 Word about Logic�
Rom 7:14 ~ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 8:17 ~ Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 15:27 ~ It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.
1 Cor 3:1 ~ And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, [even] as unto babes in Christ.
1 Cor 3:3 ~ For ye are yet carnal: for whereas [there is] among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1 Cor 3:4 ~ For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I [am] of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
1 Cor 9:11 ~ If we have sown unto you spiritual things, [is it] a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
2 Cor 10:4 ~ (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
Heb 7:16 ~ Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Heb 9:10 ~ [Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation.
Now lets look at the Strong's Hebrew Lexicon Search Results for Mind & Carnal�There is no Listing for Logic in the Hebrew�& really don�t need to take the time to verify in Greek�
Result of search for "mind":
1431 gadal gaw-dal' a primitive root; properly, to [ twist ] (Compare 1434), i.e. to be (causatively make) large (in various senses, as in body, mind, estate or honor, also in pride):--advance, boast, bring up, exceed, excellent, be(-come, do, give, make, wax), great(-er, come to...estate, + things), grow(up),increase, lift up, magnify(-ifical), be much set by, nourish (up), pass, promote, proudly (spoken), tower.
1434 gdil ghed-eel' from 1431(in the sense of twisting); thread, i.e. a tassel or festoon:--fringe, wreath.
2154 zimmah zim-maw' or zammah {zam-maw'}; from 2161; [ a plan, especially a bad one: ]--heinous crime, lewd(-ly, -ness), mischief, purpose, thought, wicked (device, mind, -ness).
Result of search for �Carnal� .
4904 mishkab mish-kawb' from 7901; a bed (figuratively, a bier); abstractly, sleep; by euphemism, carnal intercourse:--bed((-chamber)), couch, lieth (lying) with.
7901 shakab shaw-kab' a primitive root; to lie down (for rest, sexual connection, decease or any other purpose):--X at all, cast down, ((lover-))lay (self) (down), (make to) lie (down, down to sleep, still with), lodge, ravish, take rest, sleep, stay.
7902 shkabah shek-aw-baw' from 7901; a lying down (of dew, or for the sexual act):--X carnally, *** co~pu~lation, X lay, seed. *** This word is not acceptable to post per CDFF *** and I agree�
7903 shkobeth shek-o'-beth from 7901; a (sexual) lying with:--X lie.
7931 shakan shaw-kan' a primitive root (apparently akin (by transmission) to 7901 through the idea of lodging; Compare 5531, 7925); to reside or permanently stay (literally or figuratively):--abide, continue, (cause to, make to) dwell(-er), have habitation, inhabit, lay, place, (cause to) remain, rest, set (up).
7925 shakam shaw-kam' a primitive root; properly, to incline (the shoulder to a burden); but used only as denominative from 7926; literally, to load up (on the back of man or beast), i.e. to start early in the morning:--(arise, be up, get (oneself) up, rise up) early (betimes), morning.
5531 cikluwth sik-looth' or sikluwth (Eccl. 1:17) {sik-looth'}; from 5528; silliness:--folly, foolishness.
5528 cakal saw-kal' for 3688; to be silly:--do (make, play the, turn into) fool(-ish, -ishly, -ishness).
3688 kacal kaw-sal' a primitive root; properly, to be fat, i.e. (figuratively) silly:--be foolish.
Now Lets look at the Dictionary meanings of the words Logic, Carnal & Mind�
Logic �noun
1. the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.
2. a particular method of reasoning or argumentation: We were unable to follow his logic.
3. the system or principles of reasoning applicable to any branch of knowledge or study.
4. reason or sound judgment, as in utterances or actions: There wasn't much logic in her move.
5. convincing forcefulness; inexorable truth or persuasiveness: the irresistible logic of the facts.
6. Computers . logic circuit.
Carnal �adjective
1. pertaining to or characterized by the flesh or the body, its passions and appetites; sensual: carnal pleasures.
2. not spiritual; merely human; temporal; worldly: [[[ a man of secular, rather carnal, leanings. ]]]
Mind �noun
1. (in a human or other conscious being) the element, part, substance, or process that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges, etc.: the processes of the human mind.
2. Psychology . the totality of conscious and unconscious mental processes and activities.
3. intellect or understanding, as distinguished from the faculties of feeling and willing; intelligence.
4. a particular instance of the intellect or intelligence, as in a person.
5. a person considered with reference to intellectual power: the greatest minds of the twentieth century.
6. intellectual power or ability.
7. reason, sanity, or sound mental condition: to lose one's mind.
8. a way of thinking and feeling; disposition; temper: a liberal mind.
9. a state of awareness or remembrance: The poem puts me in mind of experiences both new and forgotten.
10. opinion, view, or sentiments: to change one's mind.
11. inclination or desire: to be of a mind to listen.
12. purpose, intention, or will: Let me know your mind in this matter before Tuesday.
13. psychic or spiritual being, as opposed to matter.
14. a conscious or intelligent agency or being: an awareness of a mind ordering the universe.
15. remembrance or recollection; memory: Former days were called to mind.
16. attention; thoughts: He can't keep his mind on his studies.
17. Chiefly South Midland and Southern U.S. notice; attention: When he's like that, just pay him no mind.
18. Roman Catholic Church . a commemoration of a person's death, especially by a Requiem mass. Compare month's mind, year's mind.
19. ( initial capital letter ) Also called Divine Mind. Christian Science . God; the incorporeal source of life, substance, and intelligence. Compare mortal mind.
I hope this has cleared up a lot of Non-Sense that keeps going on in the Forums of late about Mans / Women�s Carnal Logical Mind vs. GOD�s Sovereignty & Perfect Existence�xo
Reiterate ~ James Shared ~ I think that one of the ways in which mankind is MADE in the "image of God" is that we are rational creatures!
*** This comment is contrary to GOD's Soverienty...people are not GOD...we are his Creation...created for His purpose and people are [[[ Irrational creatures ]]]...xo
James shared ~ Jude, that does not make any sense.God cannot be sovereign if man is a rational creature????
*** I said people are Irrational not Rational James�Does it make sence now ???�xo
God's ways are higher than our ways, God's thoughts are not our thoughts, therefore you can logically deduce that God"s logic is not your logic.
Where does that leave you? Exactly where God wants you, relying on Him instead of your logic, following the Holy Spirit instead of following your own logic, trusting in Jesus rather than trusting in your own logic.
"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding, and He will direct your paths" (Proverbs 3:5)
If you don't like that verse, you can be honest and say you don't accept the Bible, or you can be dishonest using your logic and rationalize that verse away.
God's ways are higher than our ways, God's thoughts are not our thoughts, therefore you can logically deduce that God"s logic is not your logic.
Where does that leave you? Exactly where God wants you, relying on Him instead of your logic, following the Holy Spirit instead of following your own logic, trusting in Jesus rather than trusting in your own logic.
James replies:
Now, wait a minute.........PJ has us pitting clear thinking AGAINST the Holy Spirit.
Are you doing the same thing???
Twosparrows said:
"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding, and He will direct your paths" (Proverbs 3:5)
If you don't like that verse, you can be honest and say you don't accept the Bible, or you can be dishonest using your logic and rationalize that verse away.
James replies:
The Jehovah's witnesses USE that verse to say that they are right and every Christian church is wrong.
So, this verse CAN be misused, agreed?
I would like to know who doesn't like that verse?
AND....the context of that verse is book which is a collection of sayings on HOW TO BE WISE. That entire section you quoted from is God TELLING man to use logic and SEEK WISDOM.
So, that verse does NOT mean, "forget about trying to think clearly, and just use your spiritual intuition..."
Shared ~ So, that verse does NOT mean, "forget about trying to think clearly, and just use your spiritual intuition...Right?
*** Boy~ o~ Boy...PJ aint got us confused...lol...No it does not mean that...I believe the verse means to Quit Over Analizing [ Logic ] and Allow the [ Holy Spirit ] to Reveal the Truth as God wills through His Scriptures...xo
Shared ~ So, that verse does NOT mean, "forget about trying to think clearly, and just use your spiritual intuition...Right?
*** Boy~ o~ Boy...PJ aint got us confused...lol...No it does not mean that...I believe the verse means to Quit Over Analizing [ Logic ] and Allow the [ Holy Spirit ] to Reveal the Truth as God wills through His Scriptures...xo
James replies:
You just said what I said, using different words!
"forget about trying to think clearly"
Jude wrote: "Quit over analyzing"
"Just use your spiritual intuition"
Jude said: "Allow the Holy Spirit to Reveal the truth..."
That is superstitious NONSENSE that CONTRADICTS the Bible!
YOUR private religious HUNCHES are NOT the Holy Spirit.
Why in the world would God give us teachers and preachers, if we are supposed to ignore them and instead rely on private religious hunches???
You just said what I said, using different words! "forget about trying to think clearly"
*** No I said something completely different and differently�
Jude wrote: "Quit over analyzing"
*** YUP ! I wrote that�whats so hard to understand here ??? You just don�t like what I said because it goes against your grain�Once again�I believe the verse means to Quit Over Analizing [ Logic ] and Allow the [ Holy Spirit ] to Reveal the Truth as God wills through His Scriptures..
"Just use your spiritual intuition"
*** I did not say that you did�please don�t be twisting my words�what I said is below�
Jude said: "Allow the Holy Spirit to Reveal the Truth as God wills through His Scriptures."
*** YUP !!! I said that�Jesus said He would pray the Father to send US a Helper�That is the Holy Spirit�Scripture is Spiritually Revealed & Learned not Carnally�.You have a Problem with that ? Take it up with GOD, Jesus, Paul, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John�all the Prophets for that matter�
That is superstitious NONSENSE that CONTRADICTS the Bible!
*** It is NON-SENSE to you�
YOUR private religious HUNCHES are NOT the Holy Spirit.
*** Their are NO Private Hunches�it is the Holy Spirit that Resides & Lives within the Born Again Believer that Teaches and Convicts�Ya gona say that�s Contradictive to ???
Why in the world would God give us teachers and preachers, if we are supposed to ignore them and instead rely on private religious hunches???
*** You�ll have to answer your own question here�I personally do not Ignore Teachers or Preachers�But I will Ignore False Doctrine and Lies ifin that�s what they Teach and Preach�xo
GodsJude - *** There is no Word � Logic� in the Written or Spoken Word of GOD�but in Fact it does Exist�
Ryan - I'm sorry! Sometimes I forget who I'm responding to. Sorry ma'am! Yes I was aware that the word logic wasn't used and I wasn't specifically asking where the scriptures used the actual word, just for clarification.
GodsJude - *** You are right�The Proof is in the Pudding�So to speak�When I cannot see the Moon�I still Know that it Exists� *** I disagree with the Peoples Logic�it is Contrary to GOD�s Sovereignty�
Ryan - Now we are getting somewhere. I completely agree that man is not perfect and that their logic can be flawed. I'm however not speaking about man's logic, but rather logic in and of itself. We know the moon exists, so it's can't not exist. That is logic. A flawed man can disagree with it, but he would have flawed logic. Logic itself though is not flawed. Scripture is logical. Man controlling the universe is contrary to God's sovereignty. Logic is not.
Godsjude - *** And that�s Miss not Sir�lol�but thank you for being polite, I appreciate it�Speaking of Sun & Moon�can you Logically Explain this Happening and Reconcile it to your Logical Carnal mind ???�Homework is always Good for the Soul�
Ryan - I would argue that the carnal mind would be prone to think illogically, not logically. It's your position that the carnal mind is logical?
GodsJude - 12~ Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, [[[ Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon. ]]]
13~[[[ And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, ]]] until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
14~ And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel.
Ryan - You would need to show how these verses are illogical. I can agree maybe that they may be beyond certain people's understanding, but remember logic is determined by reality not what someone understands. I don't understand all the intricacies of a tornado, but I know they occur. You may be confusing man's reasoning with logic.
GodsJude - The WORD Logic is not in the Bible�the Word Carnal is found in 10 Verses in the Bible which as a courtesy I will post below�and Mind occurs 95 times in 92 verses in the KJV and not 1 Word about Logic�
Ryan - I would argue that logic is presented in scripture without having to use the word logic. Jesus says to act a certain way. That logically means we are to not act the opposite way. That's logic, but the word logic isn't used in the verse.
