The limited number of people, who actually hear the gospel.
Posted : 12 Mar, 2011 01:27 PM
James wrote - "It is unthinkable to suppose then that God sent his Son to save people who, by the ordering of his own providence, never hear the gospel in order that they may believe and be saved."
Unthinkable? And yet it is not unthinkable to you that God would create souls who will never be given the opportunity to believe and be saved because He created them as non-savable; and as far as God is concerned they can burn in Hell and He doesn't care?
The limited number of people, who actually hear the gospel.
Posted : 12 Mar, 2011 02:42 PM
When you compromise the truth and reject the word of God, you walk out of the light and everyday out there will get darker and darker, and then there is no truth, no love, no mercy, no compassion, the lie of the perseverance of the saints will cause those that trust in it to end up in gross outer darkness!!
The answer is simple get back with the word and stay in it line upon line, precept upon precept.
The limited number of people, who actually hear the gospel.
Posted : 12 Mar, 2011 07:14 PM
The premise here is VERY simple.
Note the very first sentence of the article:
"It is difficult to believe that the Triune God intended Christ's
death for every man woman and child, the blessing of which is enjoyed upon condition that they believe in him, when he has not arranged for everyone to hear the Gospel."
Notice no one on this thread has dealt with this fact.
You see, Doctrines are hooked together, and if you change one, then another will have to change also.
For instance, you believe Jesus died for everyone who ever lived?
Well, that is extremely popular with modern American Christians.
So, at the moment that is the fad.
But, another doctrine that is believe by most Modern American Christians IS something that Christians have believed in the early church, and since the Reformation, and that is Justification by faith alone.
Meaning you have to TRUST IN Jesus in order to be saved.
Well, if you believe that Jesus died for everyone who ever live, and you believe that a person must trust in Jesus, then you automatically believe that a person must hear about Jesus so that they would know who to trust in.
But, the problem is, although you believe Jesus died for everyone who ever lived, you KNOW that not everyone who ever lived has gotten a chance to even HEAR ABOUT Jesus!
Why would God do such a thing?
Now, if you just take Jesus at His Word, you won't have a problem. Because Jesus SAID he was going to lay down his life for the sheep, the ones the Father has given Him.
But that is a tough thing to do, if you have believed Jesus died for everyone who ever lived, for many years.
I understand it may take some time.
God expects us to grow in our understanding of His Word.
Matthew 1:21: "...She will bear a son, and you shall call his name
Jesus, for he will SAVE HIS PEOPLE from their sins. '
The limited number of people, who actually hear the gospel.
Posted : 12 Mar, 2011 07:56 PM
The premise here is VERY simple. Note the very first sentence of the article: "It is difficult to believe that the Triune God intended Christ's death for every man woman and child, the blessing of which is enjoyed upon condition that they believe in him, when he has not arranged for everyone to hear the Gospel." Notice no one on this thread has dealt with this fact.
Well if that's a "fact", then you should have no problem providing a citation as to where this factual statement comes from so we can read it for ourselves. I'd also appreciate a Scriptural reference as to where God has not arranged for everyone to hear the Gospel. Kinda limits God, don'tya think?
The limited number of people, who actually hear the gospel.
Posted : 12 Mar, 2011 07:57 PM
james you have presented no facts. You have posted an article of a man's opinion. The God I serve is Able to insure every person on earth hears the gospel. How many times must you hear His thoughts are not our thoughts and His ways are not our ways. You limit God, who is limitless. I'm wondering if you are one of the ones Paul was warning us about in Philippians 3:18,19 as he was weeping.
The limited number of people, who actually hear the gospel.
Posted : 12 Mar, 2011 08:05 PM
James shared:
Notice no one on this thread has dealt with this fact.
----------------------------
James, I have dealt with this, even giving you a scripture : Romans 1:20 ~ "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities ---His eternal power---His divine nature ---have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."
James you are the one who is being intellectually dishonest. It is so frustrating to deal with blind people who claim they see better than everyone else. I have dealt with every one of your interpretation errors of Scripture, shying away from none. Yet you only respond to maybe 50% of my posts that disagree with your doctrine. You just ignore them, claim you didn't see them or go off on another tangent. Even on this thread you have failed to respond not only to me, but also Saved's last post. And you come on here claiming no one has responded and expect everyone to automatically believe it. That kind of thing may work with your Calvinist friends, but here not everyone believes everything they hear.
Are you so dull that you cannot even see that if you say the Gospel is only preached to the elect, then everyone who hears it will automatically accept it? What happened to your superior intellect and your super powers of logic, deduction and reasoning, get to close to some kryptonite?
The limited number of people, who actually hear the gospel.
Posted : 12 Mar, 2011 08:18 PM
James wrote - "For instance, you believe Jesus died for everyone who ever lived? Well, that is extremely popular with modern American Christians. So, at the moment that is the fad."
Yep. I believe Jesus died for the sins of all mankind. It's in Scripture. As to being "extremely popular with modern American Christians", I couldn't tell you. Did you see a poll to that affect? Oh, and since you don't know me, I'll tell you that I don't do fads.
Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life. - Romans 5:18
How are you going to twist that verse in order to deny "all" couldn't possibly mean "all"?
The limited number of people, who actually hear the gospel.
Posted : 12 Mar, 2011 08:26 PM
James wrote -"But, another doctrine that is believe by most Modern American Christians IS something that Christians have believed in the early church, and since the Reformation, and that is Justification by faith alone. Meaning you have to TRUST IN Jesus in order to be saved. Well, if you believe that Jesus died for everyone who ever live, and you believe that a person must trust in Jesus, then you automatically believe that a person must hear about Jesus so that they would know who to trust in. But, the problem is, although you believe Jesus died for everyone who ever lived, you KNOW that not everyone who ever lived has gotten a chance to even HEAR ABOUT Jesus!
No, I don't KNOW that. Tell me where I can find that information. Scripture would be a good place to start and would be my first preference. But if you can't find it in Scripture, then maybe you can provide a citation and I might consider it.
