of a full-blooded, born-again, bible believing, Holy
Spirit filled Christian?
Granted, Christians are blessed with different spiritual
gifts. Some have multiple, all have at least one, and at
any given time during one's journey with Jesus, some folk
may have used all of the biblically, based, spiritual gifts even
if they didn't fully realize it at the time.
Have you ever judged a person who doesn't speak
in tongues?
If you don't speak in tongues, have you heard people use
that gift?
What was your perspective towards that experience?
Having a gift of discernment myself, it was sad to realize
upon visiting a really solid charismatic church for 3 seasons
of my life, that some people pretend to speak in tongues.
They simply do their best to mock what they hear as to
fit in with everyone else who does.
When I suspected that was happening, the Holy Spirit confirmed and convicted in me of what I inantely knew already, so it does make me cautious being around people who do claim to speak in tongues.Yet, I am thankful for all the honest people who sincerely have that gift as it is a powerful and personal expression of prayer to use.
I have really enjoyed this discussion with you. You are well versed and articulate. I used to believe everything you are saying, and to this day I cannot say with 100% certainty that I am right and you wrong.
The fact that I still pray in tongues at times is evidence against me on this matter.
The main reason that I argue the point is that I feel speaking in tongues at will is trying to force the issue. I believe that if the Spirit wants you to pray in tongues, He will let you know. I have tested this belief and it holds true for me. However, my truth may not be yours.
I am going to quit posting on this subject before we have everyone hopelessly confused.
This post and the discussion between you brothers which has been very respectful has been very informative as well.
I appreciate that. I am young in Christ, and fully believe in the gift of tongues . Although I have never spoke in tongues, I have no doubts about whether I am saved or not. I have had several occasions where God allowed me to be absolutely immersed in the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit. Neither occasion did I speak in tongues.
I know christians who have been saved for many years, and I mean born again, Spirit filled christians, not just people who attend church or have their name on a roll or pay tithes, who have never spoke in tongues.
When I hear Spirit filled or born again "with the evidence of speaking in tongues" one question immediately enters my mind: Who is the "evidence" for?
God surely doesn't need the evidence because He already knows our hearts and whether His Spirit abides there.
If the evidence is for the individual then I personally think that brother or sister lacks faith in God and doesn't fully understand His Word.
Romans 10: 9-10 If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God has raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Upon conversion, which happens in the heart when we believe, and is a simple act of faith, the Holy Spirit immediately takes up residence in our hearts!! The heart is the key. If an individual feels they need to speak in tongues as evidence for themselves that they are either saved or possess the Holy Spirit then they are really telling God they require a sign before they will believe or accept He has done what He promised He would do in Romans 10: 9-10.
Lastly, If "the evidence" is not for God or for the individual themselves then are you saying it is for others?
If so, I find this very disturbing for then we are saying we require a sign to show someone else what we possess!
Once again, the HEART is the key. God already knows what we possess. He knows if we are saved and whether His Spirit abides in us. He doesn't need evidence, we are seriously lacking in faith if we need evidence, and if the evidence is for others then we desire to " show off" our gifts and that means our heart is not right.
I'm fully convinced tongues is a gift and is "real", but to say we should desire that gift more so than any other, or envy others who have that gift, or God forbid, pretend we have the gift of tongues in order to be accepted is to be out of the will of God in my opinion.
Very good post brother. I think where the confusion lies is in a true understanding of the Trinity. I use the Bible's repeated reference to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob/Israel to teach the Trinity. We have Abraham, the father of our faith. Then Isaac, the obedient son, whose father even chose his bride. And then, the key to what are talking about, Jacob/Israel, who was the active force in making God's will happen.
Jacob was the only person in the Bible whose name didn't stay changed, once God changed it. He was referred to alternatingly as Israel, or Jacob. This represents the twofold purpose of the Holy Spirit. When we accept Christ as our savior, the Spirit of Christ comes to live inside us. When God anoints is for a purpose, the Spirit of God (the Father) comes upon us, as it did with Jesus after He was baptized. I believe that it is the second that is referred to as the baptism in the spirit. The evidence you are speaking of is the power of God, to show others the glory of God. Many times miracles are needed to accomplish God's will, at those times He gives us the power to accomplish this. This is just my opinion, and as such, is probably worth what it is costing you.
Yes, there are several different kinds of tongues. When a person gets born again the Holy Spirit is w/ /them but not IN them. I was born-again at age 6 but i did not recieve the Holy Spirit until I was 10. I had to ask God for the INfilling of the Spirit. God answered my prayer & I immediately spoke in tongues. Any one I know who has ever been saved has had to ask to be infilled & when they were, everyone of them spoke in tongues. This kind of tongues is for the edification of the person that is praying. The Word says, "For we know not how to pray as we ought but that the Spirit utters moanings & supplications for us" cos He knows what we need to talk to God about & our rational mind is w/ out understanding of some things that we need to pray about."
Unfortunately, the Charismatic movement replaced the genuine tongues for the deception of people & they 'teach' people how to speak in tongues. This is very false & harmful doctrine cos people who dont understand tongues believe they have received the real thing. The Holy Spirit doesnt need ANYones help to speak His own language.
THen, there is the gift of tongues where people prophesy in tongues in church & either God gives them the English interpretation or gives it to another; ergo for edification of the entire church.
Then the gift of 'other tongues' is when God wants to talk to someone but the speaker doesnt know the language. It all boils down to God using tongues in different ways for different situations. If you'd like a deeper understanding, contact me here at Godslave. I have much experience, plus, Im extremely well-versed in the Word. I hope this has helped clarify but Ive only covered the basics.
SATAN is the author of confusion. When I see confusion in any church in any form wether it be disagreement conditional love or people jumping up and down the isles or rolling in the floor.....i recognize the work of satan trying to get in a word...trying to distract us from the work of the Holy Spirit at hand.
The bible also says that speaking in tongues would die when that which is perfect is complete did I misquote? help me The Bible is complete now and besides Jesus, nothing else on this earth is completed or perfect is it? so may be why God would have no use for us to speak in tongues any more. Everything we do should glorify God. Everything. How does speaking in tongues openly where no one understands it glorify God? If an interpreter was present, it might but it is not often we hear of a worship service having both tongue speakers and an interpretor present is it? and if there was someone there who claimed to be an interpreter, I feel I would be confused as to how they know they are an interpreter and how do I know they really ARE an interpreter. ha but seriously.
You hear preachers brow beat holler and scream at people to "get the Spirit!" Don't they know that when you accept Christ as Savior you Get the spirit so you have no need to get Him again? It's like saying get the money, get the money when you should say you've got the check now GO CASH IT MY BROTHER! wALK WITH THE SPIRIT AND LET GOD CULTIVATE SOME FRUIT IN YOU. FOR CHRISTIANS WILL BE RECOGNIZED BY THE FRUIT...NOT THE TONGUE! How's that? Amen???
oh and I loved when I heard a woman minister say one time about how stupid it is when we pray for weeks and weeks inviting theHoly Spirit to be present at an upcoming conference or revival. DUHHHHH HE INVITES us. I MIGHT ADD HERE that we are COMMANDED not invited to gather ourselves with believers to worship and fellowship nurture one another and help each other to grow and walk in the spirit. We just need to pray to be there, invite others to be there and pray to be listening with both ears and our mouths shut most of the time.
i KNOW THAT WHEN YOU RECEIVED THE GIFT OF sALVATION yOU RECIEVED THE hOLY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU. yOU JUST DIDN'T UNDERSTAND AT THE TIME THAT YOU GOT THAT BENEFIT. iT'S LIKE WHEN YOU GET A NEW CAR AND CAN'T USE ALL THE GADGETS UNTIL YOU FURTHER READ THE INSTRUCTIONS BUT BELIEVE ME YOU GOT THEM WHEN YOU BOUGHT THE CAR. THEY CAME WITH IT. SO WHEN WE GROW IN OUR SALVATION WE LEARN HOW TO PAY ATTENTION TO THE HOLY SPIRIT WHO WAS THERE ALL ALONG.
Alllllsooooooo Yes the Holy spirit makes moanings and groanings FOR US the key word here being FOR and not WITH us our by using our mouth.tHE WHOLE REASON HE DOES THIS IS BECAUSE WE DON'T ALWAYS KNOW HOW TO PRAY OR NEED HIS COMFORT AND PRAYERS.
I think the concept OF HAVING TO ASK FOR SALVATION AND THE hOLY SPIRIT serves only one purpose and that is to make a child of God feel that he is still missing something when he is saved. TO BELIEVE THIS WOULD INFLICT GUILT OR A FEELING THAT THERE WAS STILL SOMETHING TO DO TO GAIN A HIGHER FORM OF SALVATION. dON'T LET ANYONE DO THAT TO YOU. His grace is SUFFICIENT ENOUGH. I am telling you, Satan is the author of confusion and any so called doctrine or belief or practice that distracts us from the real thing is verY CONFUSING TO ME. GOD HAS NEVER ONCE CONFUSED ME. I often do not understand everything He wants me to but He has never ever once confused me rather assured me daily of my undeserving salvation and His PERFECT love for me .
HE DIED FOR US WHILE WE WERE YET SINNERS. whew!!! fROM THER ON IT'S ABOUT US LEARNING TO AND PRACTICING HOW WE GROW TO LOVE GOD BACK. hE ALREADY DID THE LOVING OF US. HE DID IT ONCE AND HE' S NOT GOING TO DO IT AGAIN OR DO IT IN DEGREES. IT'S DONE.
Amen, Brothers. I agree with most said here! This is a very kind, courteous discussion about one of God's lesser gifts. ("Do all speak in tongues...?" Nope.) The BEST gift is Himself, and all this speaking stuff is good, but especially that which edifies the Church is His heart for us! "Desire spiritual gifts, but especially...prophesy..." (1Cor.13 onward says much about the subject that I wouldn't possibly be able to add to.)
Speaking only from my own experience, I've been most blessed by prophetic words of knowledge, that God has allowed for my encouragement--to spur me on to love Him more. I also pray in tongues often (almost daily, if I remember to open my mouth to Him! "I thank God that I speak in tongues more than you all...BUT..." there is SO much more in Christ!). He really HAS blessed me at times and so much of it is still a mystery to me, but I'm content to use what He gives me, pray that I may interpret, and trust Him. As long as He is pleased with the fruit in my life...
I've read really neat books on the subject, and have enjoyed hearing what and how God uses this small gift. (They Speak With Other Tongues, Chasing the Dragon, The Cross and the Switchblade, some of Agnes Sanford's books, to name a few.) The only thing I really want in my life is to please Him, and the tongue does have the "power of life and death" (Proverbs somewhere). James informs us that "if a man offend not in word, he is a perfect man, able to bridle also his whole body.." Lord Jesus, please help us all to please You in everything we say! Tongues or no tongues, help us to honor You with all our words! :)
God bless your tongues (praying in the Spirit and with understanding), siblings in Christ! :)
They were understood languages - the kinds with dictionaries and a group of people speaking them -- an "ethnos" or people group. The translators of modern translations sadly are inconsistent. They take the same Greek word -- and arbitrarily translate it "tongues" in some places, and "languages" in other places. See on the day of Pentecost how people from different ethnic groups each understood the disciples "in their own language." They were hearing the gospel -- concrete words with definitions -- not just sounds and noise. The common misunderstanding of "angelic tongues" is from a hypothetical statement Paul makes: "if I could speak in the [languages] of men and of angels, but have not love...." Notice the context -- he also mentions other hypothetical things "all knowledge" -- showing that he was never claiming to know the language of angels -- it was hypothetical language to make a point about love. Paul said he spoke in languages more than all of them -- because he was more educated. He was a student of Gamaliel, and knew Greek, Arabic, Hebrew, etc fluently. These were languages with dictionaries.
