If God's Sovereignty and the display of His Glory is paramount. If God unconditionally chooses who to save and no one has free will to choose Him. Then why did Jesus have to go to the Cross and die such a horrific death? God being Sovereign, why doesn't He just pick some, kill the rest and be done with it?
If you say to satisfy His own justice I humbly submit to you then all that was required was the death of His son. The animals were not tortured and beaten before they were sacrificed and were not crucified. So why wasn't Jesus simply, quickly and humanely beheaded? His death would of still paid the price for our sin and Gods justice satisfied.
Why the Cross?
James replies:
You titled this thread "serious Calvinism Question" but this Question does not fall under the five points nicknamed Calvinism.
Anyone could ask this question to any Christian.
I think that God does things, to shame the world, to show the utter wickedness of mankind, and God deliberately choose things that are NOT the things people look up to.
The Jews wanted a triumphant Messiah, even though the Old Testament prophesied a suffering Messiah.
The Greeks, the supremely intelligent philosophers, thought the cross made no sense whatsoever.
I Think there is real mystery in the cross also.
But what about God using the cross as an example to all of God's people on how THEY should suffer for the truth?
God even chooses to save people who are mostly from the lower classes of the Earth.
One of the complaints of the Roman high society was that they noticed that almost all the People who were Christians were the poor and low class of people. They wanted a religion that had high class people in it, and God has only chosen to save a very few of them.
But God CHOSE crucifixion. And notice that Jesus' ENTIRE life was TRULY humble! Jesus was a direct descendant of KING David. Jesus COULD have had a life AS a king! But no, not even a proper place to be born! I think the humility of His life, and the pain and humiliation of His death, SHOWS just HOW much God relates to our pain and suffering on Earth, and that HE truly became one of us.
Paul says, " I am crucified with Christ" and that is the attitude we should have towards sin in our own lives.
I am just saying these things off the top of my head, and I don't feel like I am doing very well with your question. I would suggest you read what giants of the faith have to say on this question.
See what Spurgeon said, and Calvin said, and Luther, and Edwards, the Puritans. Find out what modern theologians have said on this.
Yes Dennis i would say you put both feet in your mouth,
You do occasionally agree with the complete false teaching of calvinism.
Just so you will know I was addressing the lie of calvinism that say's, since man can not respond to God, that he then gives them a new heart, not of their choice, but his choice and after they have a new heart so they can believe God.
Just in case you missed what I said Dennis, that is witchcraft, hopefully that is clear enough.
If you need something to do go after the lie, do you believe it is scriptural for the Calvinist to continually God a liar.
You see Dennis lies can send people to hell for eternity.
" [God] causing those to turn to him would be witchcraft. "
The Bible says:
Eze 36:26-27 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and CAUSE you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Psa 65:4 Blessed is the man whom thou CHOOSES, and CAUSES to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.
Joh 6:37-40 All that the Father giveth me SHALL come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
James you have never gone with what Jesus said, it is always what you say Jesus said, two different items,
One is true
One is not
Jn3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Jn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Jn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Jesus answered, �Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. [1] 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, �You [2] must be born again.�
James no where in this text does Jesus say anything about seeing or that you must be first born again to believe.
This is a simple declaration saying that man must be born again to enter the kingdom of God
Now if you will go to the parable of the sower, Jesus talked about the kingdom of God, and how it operates,
In this teaching it totally contradicts, what you just said, endeavoring to discredit my statement.
By the way Jesus said in the parable of the sower, if you do not understand this truth you will not understand the kingdom of God.
Jesus specifically deals with how a man is born again in the parable of the sower.
James no one was born again before Jesus, he was the first.
The bible teaches us of man being in faith time and time again, and they where not born again.
The parable of the sower teaches the how man had faith,
Thank you for your sincere effort. Although the question "Why the Cross?" remains unanswered, you have taught me much. I knew that truth must be revealed by the Spirit. I now see that even the religious it is especially the simplest of truths that must be revealed by the Spirit.
No offense intended, but have you forgotten what brought you to Jesus? What did bring you to Jesus? What was the thing that when you realized it, made you say enthusiastically YES! ?
Or are the words Jesus spoke to Nicodemus applicable here?
