Thread: Did Christ die for ALL...or did He just died for Y'all (the Elect)...?
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Did Christ die for ALL...or did He just died for Y'all (the Elect)...?
Posted : 14 Feb, 2011 08:37 PM
Do We Really Have A Gospel For All Men?
Article by Pastor George Zeller
Paul taught that the good news of the gospel includes the fact that �Christ died for our sins� (1 Cor. 15:1-4). Can we honestly share this good news with all men everywhere? Most Reformed men believe that Christ died as a Substitute and paid sin�s penalty only for the elect, that is, only for those who will eventually be saved. The Bible uses all kinds of universal terms to make it clear that the Saviour died for the sins of Adam�s entire race (Isa. 53:6; John 3:16; 6:51; 1 Tim. 2:6; Heb. 2:9; 1 John 2:2; 2 Peter 2:1; etc.). See For Whom Did Christ Die?
How can we sincerely offer to men what has not been provided for them? How can we offer them a free gift if the gift has not been purchased for them? How can we urge them to drink from the fountain of life if no water has been provided for them? How can we tell them to be saved if Christ provided not for their salvation? How can we say to a person, "Take the medicine and be cured!" if there is no medicine to take and no cure provided?
Reformed men, if they are honest, have a very uncertain gospel: �Perhaps Christ died for you.� �Maybe God so loved you.� �Christ shed His blood for you, perhaps.� �Salvation has been provided for you, maybe.� �Possibly God commendeth His love toward you.� �Hopefully He�s the propitiation for your sins.� �There is a possibility that Christ died as your Substitute.� �I bring you good news, maybe.� It would be like saying, �I know you have a problem, but I�m not sure there is a solution to your problem. I know you have a terrible disease, but I am not sure there is a remedy for you. Your case may be hopeless. We just don�t know whether there is a Saviour for you or not.� How thankful we can be that there is indeed a �Saviour of all men� (1 Tim. 4:10)!
Do We Need to be Saved Before We Can Believe?
We all recognize that salvation is a supernatural work of God, and that no one can be saved apart from divine enlightenment (Matt. 16:17; Acts 16:14) and apart from the Spirit�s inner conviction (John 16:7-11). God the Holy Spirit convicts and convinces the world of the sin of unbelief (John 16:9). Those in darkness are commanded and are responsible to receive the Lord Jesus Christ, the Light of the world. At the point of regeneration a child of wrath becomes a child of God and is a possessor of the very life and light of God. At the very moment he believes on the Lord Jesus Christ he is regenerated and saved eternally (John 1:12; Gal. 3:26; Acts 16:30-31). Reformed men teach that regeneration precedes faith. The Bible teaches that a man must believe in order to live (John 20:31; John 6:47); they teach that a man must live in order to believe.
Charles Spurgeon recognized the folly of saying that the sinner must be regenerated before he can believe: "If I am to preach the faith in Christ to a man who is regenerated, then the man, being regenerated, is saved already, and it is an unnecessary and ridiculous thing for me to preach Christ to him, and bid him to believe in order to be saved when he is saved already, being regenerate. Am I only to preach faith to those who have it? Absurd, indeed! Is not this waiting till the man is cured and then bringing him the medicine? This is preaching Christ to the righteous and not to sinners." [From Spurgeon�s sermon entitled "The Warrant of Faith."]
Did Christ die for ALL...or did He just died for Y'all (the Elect)...?
Posted : 15 Feb, 2011 06:20 PM
Jesus SAID that He died for a specific GROUP of people that the Father had GIVEN TO HIM..........
Joh 17:1-2 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Joh 17:6-12 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Joh 17:20-21 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:24-26 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
Did Christ die for ALL...or did He just died for Y'all (the Elect)...?
Posted : 15 Feb, 2011 07:29 PM
James,
You posted 3 times in a row, your 1st post I have already answered before and this is the second time you have posted it. Clearly you are not listening or don't want to hear. Your lack of understanding makes me wonder if you really understand the Gospel?
Do I need to explain the sin of unbelief and why people go to Hell ....AGAIN???
Did Christ die for ALL...or did He just died for Y'all (the Elect)...?
Posted : 15 Feb, 2011 07:30 PM
James,
You posted 3 times in a row, your 1st post I have already answered before and this is the second time you have posted it. Clearly you are not listening or don't want to hear. Your lack of understanding makes me wonder if you really understand the Gospel?
Do I need to explain the sin of unbelief and why people go to Hell ....AGAIN???
Did Christ die for ALL...or did He just died for Y'all (the Elect)...?
Posted : 15 Feb, 2011 07:42 PM
James shared;
nd I humbly apologize for yet again posting a scripture verse that contradicts Arminians, but Eph.5:25 says that Jesus did NOT die for everyone, but "gave Himself for the church". Here is my question: Eph 5:25 [we are commanded to love our wives in the same way that Christ loved the church and gave himself for it; therefore, if Christ loved and gave himself for all people in the same way, we are commanded to love all women in the same way that we love our wives];????
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Precisely James! You are getting close to the truth now! ......The "Church" is predestined and elect.... Before the beginning of the world God purposed, predestined the "church" (the Body of Christ), not necessarily all individual believers...God gives them a choice to belong to the church or not.
(James, it is called "cooperate election"... look it up)
Did Christ die for ALL...or did He just died for Y'all (the Elect)...?
Posted : 16 Feb, 2011 10:08 AM
Good try James with all your scriptures, however, you DID NOT answer my questions, instead you gave out scriptures.
So let's try this one more time...
QUESTIONS:
(1) According to your twsted teachings, WHO THEN CAN BE SAVED?
(2) WHEN YOU WERE A SINNER, BEFORE YOU KNEW YOU WERE AN ELECT, CHOSEN, OR A CALLED, HOW DID YOU KNOW YOU WERE AN ELECT?
I suppose to sum it all up what I am asking you is, what was the defining moment that brought you to know that you needed Jesus Christ in your life and that you were on the wrong path?
There is NOT a person in the bible, or in this life who is a sinner, and has not had an up close personal encounter experience with Jesus Christ, wherein they were brought to their knees in guilt and shame of their sins, and lead to repentance. That is, if they truly have been born again, we see this in scripture, with Peter, Paul, Corninlus, and others in real life. As a sinner when God has siad enough is enough, we all have experienced God confronting us in our sins, and bringing us to repentance. And if you have NOT experienced a in your face encounter with the Lord, whereoin you have been broken and bought to your knees to repentance from your heart, then I say you HAVE NOT been truly born again.... and this ain't nothing about what you have been brainedwashed into believing by your Calvinist teahcings. This is about God, His carater, and how He works throughout the Bible. That's just the facts, based on what scripture tell us, about those whom God brought to repentance into salvation. again, question: What was your defining experinece with the Lord, coz, you should have a testimony of your salvation experience.
All expereinces with the Lord, and the people in the Bible, who had spiritual experiences whether good or bad, and they were used by God, and they are in the Bible, used by God for our example.
So let's talk about YOUR PERSONAL salvation experience, up close and personal encounter with the Lord. What took place? You don't have to go into great details, just share the defining monet God got in your face about your sins.
COZ, scripture alone, nor did faith alone saved you, without REPENTANCE! AND WITHOUT COMING FACE TO FACE WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD!
