One of the most dramatic moments in my life for the shaping of my theology took place in a seminary classroom. One of my professors went to the blackboard and wrote these words in bold letters: "Regeneration Precedes Faith."
These words were a shock to my system. I had entered seminary believing that the key work of man to effect rebirth was faith. I thought that we first had to believe in Christ in order to be born again. I use the words in order here for a reason. I was thinking in terms of steps that must be taken in a certain sequence. I had put faith at the beginning. The order looked something like this:
"Faith - rebirth -justification."
I hadn�t thought that matter through very carefully. Nor had I listened carefully to Jesus� words to Nicodemus. I assumed that even though I was a sinner, a person born of the flesh and living in the flesh, I still had a little island of righteousness, a tiny deposit of spiritual power left within my soul to enable me to respond to the Gospel on my own. Perhaps I had been confused by the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church. Rome, and many other branches of Christendom, had taught that regeneration is gracious; it cannot happen apart from the help of God.
No man has the power to raise himself from spiritual death. Divine assistance is necessary. This grace, according to Rome, comes in the form of what is called prevenient grace. "Prevenient" means that which comes from something else. Rome adds to this prevenient grace the requirement that we must "cooperate with it and assent to it" before it can take hold in our hearts.
This concept of cooperation is at best a half-truth. Yes, the faith we exercise is our faith. God does not do the believing for us. When I respond to Christ, it is my response, my faith, my trust that is being exercised. The issue, however, goes deeper. The question still remains: "Do I cooperate with God's grace before I am born again, or does the cooperation occur after?" Another way of asking this question is to ask if regeneration is monergistic or synergistic. Is it operative or cooperative? Is it effectual or dependent? Some of these words are theological terms that require further explanation.
A monergistic work is a work produced singly, by one person. The prefix mono means one. The word erg refers to a unit of work. Words like energy are built upon this root. A synergistic work is one that involves cooperation between two or more persons or things. The prefix syn -
means "together with." I labor this distinction for a reason. The debate between Rome and Luther hung on this single point. At issue was this: Is regeneration a monergistic work of God or a synergistic work that requires cooperation between man and God? When my professor wrote "Regeneration precedes faith" on the blackboard, he was clearly siding with the monergistic answer. After a person is regenerated, that person cooperates by exercising faith and trust. But the first step is the work of God and of God alone.
The reason we do not cooperate with regenerating grace before it acts upon us and in us is because we can- not. We cannot because we are spiritually dead. We can no more assist the Holy Spirit in the quickening of our souls to spiritual life than Lazarus could help Jesus raise him for the dead.
When I began to wrestle with the Professor's argument, I was surprised to learn that his strange-sounding teaching was not novel. Augustine, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Jonathan Edwards, George Whitefield - even the great medieval theologian Thomas Aquinas taught this doctrine. Thomas Aquinas is the Doctor Angelicus of the Roman Catholic Church. For centuries his theological teaching was accepted as official dogma by most Catholics. So he was the last person I expected to hold such a view of regeneration. Yet Aquinas insisted that regenerating grace is operative grace, not cooperative grace. Aquinas spoke of prevenient grace, but he spoke of a grace that comes before faith, which is regeneration.
These giants of Christian history derived their view from Holy Scripture. The key phrase in Paul's Letter to the Ephesians is this: "...even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have you been saved)" (Eph. 2:5). Here Paul locates the time when regeneration occurs. It takes place 'when we were dead.' With one thunderbolt of apostolic revelation all attempts to give the initiative in regeneration to man are smashed. Again, dead men do not cooperate with grace. Unless regeneration takes place first, there is no possibility of faith.
This says nothing different from what Jesus said to Nicodemus. Unless a man is born again first, he cannot possibly see or enter the kingdom of God. If we believe that faith precedes regeneration, then we set our thinking and therefore ourselves in direct opposition not only to giants of Christian history but also to the teaching of Paul and of our Lord Himself.
(Excerpt from the book, The Mystery of the Holy Spirit, by R.C. Sproul, Christian Focus
James wrote- "It was my choice to choose Christ! But the ONLY reason I chose Jesus, is because God put a new heart in me. The Holy Spirit, made me come alive spiritually, and then NATURALLY, I said,"I want to be a Christian"."
So you had a new heart and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit before choosing Christ? Isn't that like being saved before "trusting in Christ ALONE for salvation"? When did your repentance for the remission of sin take place?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; -Acts 2:38,3:19
The more I read of Calvinism, the more questions I have...
Calvin taught that faith was forced upon the unbeliever by God; he taught that the unbeliever was "totally depraved." Jesus criticized people for their unbelief. Why would He have criticized people if they were not personally responsible for their unbelief?
James wrote- "It was my choice to choose Christ! But the ONLY reason I chose Jesus, is because God put a new heart in me. The Holy Spirit, made me come alive spiritually, and then NATURALLY, I said,"I want to be a Christian"."
So you had a new heart and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit before choosing Christ?
James replies:
I guess I need to stop expecting people to be able to read at an adult level. THE TITLE OF THIS THREAD....is Regeneration precedes faith. Precedes means "to come before".
Please read the article by Sproul again, and slowly this time.
71 continues:
Isn't that like being saved before "trusting in Christ ALONE for salvation"? When did your repentance for the remission of sin take place?
James replies:
No. Because we are saved by grace, through faith.
We were chosen before the world was made, and our sins were paid for AT Jesus' death on the cross, and we are Made alive Spiritually WHEN the Holy Spirit enters our hears, and we are saved when we repent and Trust in Jesus.
71 continues:
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; -Acts 2:38,3:19
James replies:
This is Peter preaching to a crowd of people, and it is NOT peter teaching systematic theology!
We have plenty of Scriptures that teach the order of salvation, and this is NOT one of them. When you preach to a crowd on the street, you present the Gospel, the good news about Jesus.
You do NOT teach systematic theology, like you would to a group of Christians who are studying the Bible.
71 continues:
The more I read of Calvinism, the more questions I have...
James replies:
PLEASE go to www.monergism.com and READ.
71 continues:
Calvin taught that faith was forced upon the unbeliever by God;
James replies:
NO. The Bible/the early Christians/Augustine/The Reformers/The Puritans/ modern day Reformed theologians, ALL AGREE that the Bible teaches that fallen mankind has a will enslaved to sin, and will ONLY CHOOSE to reject Christ.
and that WHEN the Holy Spirit makes a person come alive Spiritually, THEN THAT PERSON WILL NATURALLY WANT TO ACCEPT JESUS.
There is no "forcing", there is taking a TOTALLY DEAD PERSON, and MAKING THEM INTO A NEW CREATURE.
71 continues:
he taught that the unbeliever was "totally depraved."
James replies:
Totally depravity or total inability, means that for Fallen mankind, that sin has effected his ENTIRE BEING, or his TOTAL BEING, including his WILL. It does not mean fallen man is as bad as he can be.
71 continues:
Jesus criticized people for their unbelief. Why would He have criticized people if they were not personally responsible for their unbelief?
James replies:
We are all totally responsible for our actions. And God is totally sovereign.
And 71, you make a very good point here! How can God be totally sovereign, and man be totally responsible?
We have to answer this question, because the Bible everywhere, says that this IS the case!
They have good articles answering this question on monergism.com.
Oviously...Since James is on his High Horse all the time bout Calvin / Reformers and he believes himself to be Elected & the Rest of Us Reprobate...I Elect Yall quit Argueing with him and Let him believe what he wants to...Its his choice wether he believes it or not...
I dont know bout the rest of ya...BUT...in MHO...anything that has the word RE...Re-Legion...Re-Formers...Re-Generarion...is a REDO...I cant find the Words ReLegion, Reformer, Regeneration or the phrase Regeneration precedes Faith in the BIBLE...jus an observation...xo
Connecting the dots in scripture... God has elected that ALL His creations be reconciled (RETURN) back to Him, ALL THINGS CREATED BY HIM from the foundation (before He even created us). BUT, there is no way man can return BACK to God without going through Jesus Christ, and how can man come into the knowledge of Jesus Christ and be REGENERATED?... ONLY FIRST BY FAITH TO BELIEVE, THEN God put His Spirit into our hearts. The Bible teaches us that Abraham FIRST BELIEVED that God would do what He had promised, and his belief was counted to him as God's righteousness. The same principles works with us, because Abraham is the father of our FAITH. Romans chpater 4.
I think what James is saying is twisted and contrary to what we are taught in Romans chapter10, and throughtout the bible.
A person is born again through the power of the Holy Spirit by FAITH that COME INTO the person's heart to believe that his sins are forgiven by the work Jesus did on the cross, which being REPENTANCE, THEN the Holy Spierit comes and begans His work in regenerating (cleansing process)
The Holy Spirit DOES NOT live in a corrupt building, and BEFORE we receive Christ BY FAITH we ALL were corrupt. NO one comes to Christ on their own without God CONVICTING their hearts of their sins.
Therefore, FAITH to return back to God, is a choice to receive or reject, upon being FIRST CONVICTED IN OUR HEART BY GOD OF OUR SINS, AND WE ARE BROUGHT TO REPENTANCE. But NO ONE wakes up in the morning and say, "wow, I think I will come to believe in Christ today, nothing else to do. And then turn myself over to God." This would mean thet YOU are taking responsibility for your own salvation, and calling yourself back to God...lest anyone should boast! Man's mind is in darkness and corrupt separarted from God, this is why we are in sin and called sinners. For when we were enemies of God we were reconciled back to God by the death of Jesus Christ. For when we were still sinners from the foundation of the earth Jesus died for our sins on the cross. So man isn't smart enough to make a informed choice to come back to God.
There is always a sin conviction from God first, letting you know that you are in sin and that you are empty and lost, separated from God, and then you amke the chouice to receive or reject the invitation.
The Holy Spirit does not clean you up first, then you get faith. Faith precedes Regeneration
No, you get faith first to believe that God will clean you up, then the work of the Holy Spirit is to enter into your ehart and SEAL your response, and clean you up for the entering into presence of God. You are then born again from above. the only choice you made was to receive the invitation yea, or nay...
Not by our works of righteousness that we have doen, But according to to God's mercy HE SAVED US, by the WASHING OF REGENERATION AND RENEWING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, which God shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ, so that being justified by grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.. Titus chpater 3.
This is why I say, if a person does not understand the basic foundation of how, how why, who, and what of God's plan of salvation, for r salvation, this ii a problem... from reading what James is posting, he even has what Calvin has to say about salvation all wrong, as well as what the article is saying....:excited: lol.. sorry, James but I must speak what I see and hearing you saying.:laugh:
Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Tts 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Act 26:5 Which knew me from the beginning, if they would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee.
Gal 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
Gal 1:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
Jam 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion [is] vain.
Jam 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, [and] to keep himself unspotted from the world.
To answer James question about where in the Bible does it say we are given a Measure of Faith...
Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as [[[ God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. ]]]
Here is a couple other verses that are interesting...
2Cr 10:15 Not boasting of things without [our] measure, [that is], of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
BTW, James, if you already had the Holy Spirit living on the inside of you BEFORE you were REGENERATED Born again, maybe you can answer why it was necessary for God to turn around and send back Hs Holy Spirit which fell upon ALL the apostles during Pentecst?
Remember, Jesus laid hands on them when He was with them and gave them power of the Holy Spirit, but AFTER His resurrection He told them to wiat in Jersulem for the PROMISE of the Father, and when they are FILLED with the Holy Spirit, they will then have power to do the works of the ministry.
The Holy Spirit is the fruit and spritiaul blessing (harvest) from God that a believers receives WHEN they believe in Christ. So do you get theblessing of fruit from the tree BEFORE or AFTER it has bloomed?
