Author Thread: Scripture List: Unconditional Election
Admin


Scripture List: Unconditional Election
Posted : 2 Feb, 2011 11:45 AM

2. UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION



Because of Adam's transgression, his descendants enter the world as

guilty, lost sinners. As fallen creatures, they have no desire to

have fellowship with the creator. Left to their own choices, they

inevitably follow the god of this world. It would have been

perfectly just for God to have left all men in their sin and misery

and to have shown mercy to none. God was under no obligation

whatsoever to provide salvation for anyone. The doctrine of election

declares that God, before the foundation of the world, chose certain

individuals from among the fallen members of Adam's race to be the

objects of His undeserved favor. These and these only , He purposed

to save. God could have chosen to save all men (for he had the power

and authority to do so) or He could have chosen to save none (for He

was under no obligation to save any)--but He did neither. Instead he

chose to save some and to exclude others. His choice of particular

sinners unto salvation was not based upon any foreseen act or

response on the part of those selected, but was based solely on His

own good pleasure and sovereign will. It is not within the

creature's jurisdiction to call into question the justice of of the

creator for not choosing every one to salvation. It is enough to know

that the judge of the earth has done right. It should, however, be

kept in mind that if God had not graciously chosen a people for

himself and sovereignly determined to provide salvation for them and

apply it to them, NONE WOULD BE SAVED. The fact that he did this for

some, to the exclusion of others, is in no way unfair to the latter

group, unless of course one maintains that God was under obligation

to provide salvation for all sinners---a position which the Bible

utterly rejects.

The act of election ITSELF saved no one; what it did was to mark out

certain individuals for salvation. Consequently, the doctrine of

election must not be divorced from the doctrines of human guilt,

redemption, and regeneration or else it will be distorted and mis-

represented. In other words, if it is to be understood correctly,

the Father's act of election must be related to the redeeming work of

the Son, who gave himself to save the elect and to the renewing work

of the Spirit who brings the elect to faith in Christ!





A. General statements showing that God has an elect people, that He

pre-destined them to salvation, and thus to eternal life.



Deuteronomy 10:14,15: Behold, to the Lord your God belong heaven and

the heaven of heavens, the earth with all that is in it; yet THE LORD

SET HIS HEART IN LOVE upon your fathers and CHOSE their descendants

after them, you above all peoples, as at this day.



Psalm 33:12: Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord, the people

whom he has CHOSEN as his heritage!

Psalm 65:4: Blessed is he whom thou dost CHOOSE and bring near,

to dwell in thy courts! We shall be satisfied with the goodness of

thy house, thy holy temple!

Haggai 2:23: "On that day, says the Lord of hosts, I will take you O

Zerubbabel my servant, the son of Shealtiel, says the Lord, and make

you like a signet ring; for I have CHOSEN you, says the Lord of

hosts."



Matthew 11:27: "...no one knows the Father except the Son and any

one whom the Son CHOOSES to reveal him."

Matthew 22:14: "For many are called, but few are CHOSEN."

Matthew 24:22,24,31: And if those days had not been shortened, no

human being would be saved; but for the sake of the ELECT those days

will be shortened...For false Christs and false prophets will arise

and show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible

even the ELECT... and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet

call, and the will gather HIS ELECT from the four winds, from one end

of the earth to the other.



Luke 18:7: And will not God vindicate HIS ELECT, who cry out to him

day and night?



Romans 8:28-30: WE know that in everything God works for Good with

those that love him, who are CALLED ACCORDING TO HIS PURPOSE.

for those whom he foreknew he also PREDESTINED to be conformed to the

image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many

brethren. And those whom he predestined he also called; and those

whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he

also glorified.

Romans 8:33: Who shall bring any charge against God's ELECT?

Romans 11:28: As regards the gospel, they are enemies of God, for

your sake; but as regards ELECTION they are beloved for the sake of

their forefathers.



Colossians 3:12: Put on then, as God's CHOSEN ONES, holy and

beloved, compassion, kindness,...



1 Thessalonians 5:9: For God has not DESTINED US for wrath, BUT TO

OBTAIN SALVATION through our Lord Jesus Christ.



Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to

further the faith of GOD'S ELECT and their knowledge of the truth

which accords with godliness...



1 Peter 1:1,2: To the exiles of the dispersion...CHOSEN and DESTINED

by God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obediance to Jesus

Christ and for sprinkling with his blood...

1 Peter 2:8,9...For they stumble because they disobey the word, as

they were DESTINED to do. But you are a CHOSEN RACE, a royal

priesthood, a holy nation, God's own people, that you may declare the

wonderful deeds of him who CALLED you out of the darkness into his

marvelous light.



Revelation 17: 14: "They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb

will conquer them, for he is Lord of Lords and King of Kings, and

those with him are CALLED and CHOSEN and faithful."





B. Before the foundation of the world, God chose particular

individuals unto salvation. His selection was NOT BASED ON ANY

FORESEEN REPONSE OR ACT PERFORMED BY THOSE CHOSEN. Faith and good

works are the result, not the cause of God's choice.



1. God did the choosing.

Mark 13:20: And if the Lord had not shortened the days, no human

being would be saved; but for the sake of THE ELECT, WHOM HE CHOSE,

he shortened the days.







2. God's choice was made before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:4: Even as he CHOSE us in him BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF

THE WORLD, that we should be holy and blameless before him.

(see: 2 Thess. 1:4 and 2 Thess. 2:13 quoted below)



3. God chose particular individuals unto salvation-their names were

written in the book of life before the foundation of the world.



Revelation 13:8: And all those who dwell on the earth will worship

it, every one whose name has not been WRITTEN BEFORE THE FOUNDATION

OF THE WORLD in the book of life of the Lamb that was slain.

Revelation 17:8: "...and the dwellers on earth whose NAMES have not

been WRITTEN in the book of life FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD,

will marvel to behold the beast, because it was and is not and is to

come."



4. God's choice was not based upon any foreseen merit residing in

those whom He chose, nor was it based on any foreseen good works

performed by them.



Romans 9:11-13: Though they were NOT YET BORN AND HAD DONE NOTHING

EITHER GOOD OR BAD, in order that God's purpose of ELECTION might

continue, NOT BECAUSE OF WORKS but because of his CALL, she was told,

"The elder will serve the younger." As it is written, "Jacob I loved,

but Esau I hated."

Romans 9:16: So it depends NOT UPON MAN'S WILL OR EXERTION, but upon

God's MERCY.

Romans 10:20: "...I have been found by those who did not seek me; I

have shown myself to those who did not ask for me."



1 Corinthians 1:27-29: God CHOSE what is FOOLISH in the world to

shame the wise, God CHOSE what is WEAK in the world to shame the

strong, God CHOSE what is LOW and DESPISED in the world, even things

that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, SO THAT NO HUMAN

BEING MIGHT BOAST IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD.



2 Timothy 1:9: ....who saved us and called us with a holy calling not

in virtue of OUR WORKS but in virtue of HIS OWN PURPOSE and the GRACE

which he gave us in Christ Jesus AGES AGO.





5. Good works are the result, not the ground, of predestination.



Ephesians 2:10: For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus

FOR GOOD WORKS, which God PREPARED BEFOREHAND, that we should walk in

them.

Ephesians 1:12: We who first hoped in Christ have been DESTINED AND

APPOINTED to live for the praise of his glory.



John 15:16: You did not choose me, but I CHOSE YOU and APPOINTED YOU

that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide;

so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.





6. God's choice was not based upon foreseen faith. Faith is the

result and therefore the evidence of God's election, not the cause or

ground of His choice.



Acts 13:48: And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and

glorified the word of God; and as many as were ORDAINED to eternal

life BELIEVED.

Acts 18:27: ...he greatly helped those who THROUGH GRACE HAD BELIEVED.



Philippians 1:29: For it has been GRANTED to you that for the sake

of Christ you should not only BELIEVE in him but also suffer for his

sake.

Philippians 2:12,13: Therefore, my beloved, as you have always

obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my

absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; FOR GOD

IS AT WORK IN YOU, BOTH TO WILL AND TO WORK FOR HIS GOOD PLEASURE.



1 Thessalonians 1:4,5: For WE KNOW, brethren beloved by god, that he

has chosen you; FOR OUR GOSPEL CAME TO YOU not only in word, but also

IN POWER and IN THE HOLY SPIRIT and WITH FULL CONVICTION.

2 Thessalonians 2:13,14: ...GOD CHOSE YOU FORM THE BEGINNING TO BE

SAVED, THROUGH sanctification by the Spirit and BELIEF IN THE TRUTH.

To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the

glory of our Lord Jesus Christ



James 2:5:...Has not God CHOSEN those who are poor in the world TO BE

RICH IN FAITH and HEIRS OF THE KINGDOM which he has promised to those

who love him?





7. It is by faith and good works that one confirms his calling and

election.





2 Peter 1:5-11: For this very reason make every effort to supplement

your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, and knowledge with

self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness

with godliness, and godliness with brotherly affection, and

brotherly affection with love.......Therefore, brethren, be the more

zealous TO CONFIRM YOUR CALL AND ELECTION, for if you do this you

will never fall........







C. Election is not salvation but is UNTO salvation. Just as the

president elect does not become the president of the united states

UNTIL he is inaugurated, those chosen unto salvation are not saved

UNTIL they are regenerated by the Spirit and justified by faith in

Christ.





Romans 11:7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it sought.

THE ELECT OBTAINED IT, but the rest were hardened.



2 Timothy 2:10: Therefore I endure everything for the sake of

THE ELECT, that they also MAY OBTAIN THE SALVATION which in Christ

Jesus goes with eternal glory.



From Romans 16:7 it is clear that men are not actually "in Christ"

until their conversion.



D. Election was based on the sovereign, distinguishing mercy of Al-

mighty God. It was not on man's will but God's will that determined

which sinners would be shown mercy and saved.





Exodus 33:19: "...I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and

will show mercy on whom I will show mercy."



Deuteronomy 7:6,7: For you are a people holy to the LOrd your God;

the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for his own possession

out of all the peoples of the earth. It was not because you were

more in number than any other people that the Lord set his love upon

you and chose you, for you were the fewest of all peoples.



Matthew 20:15: "Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what

belongs to me?..."



Romans 9:10-24.......I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I

will have compassion on whom I have compassion, So it depends not

upon man's will or exertion, but upon God's mercy.....He has mercy

upon whomever he wills...Has the potter no right over the

clay...Vessels of mercy which he has prepared beforehand...



( one of my favorite Christian rock bands is "Jars of Clay"!)



See also Romans 11:4-6

Romans 11:33-36

Ephesians 1:5





E. The doctrine of Election is but a part of the much broader

Biblical doctrine of God's absolute sovereignty. The Scriptures not

only teach that God predestined certain individuals unto eternal

life, but that all events, both great and small, come about as the

result of God's eternal decree. The Lord God rules over heaven and

earth with absolute control; NOTHING COMES TO PASS APART FROM HIS

ETERNAL PURPOSE.



1 Chronicles 29:10-12: Therefore David blessed the Lord in the

presence of all the assembly; and David said; "Blessed art thou O

Lord, the God of Israel our Father, for ever and ever.

Thine, O Lord, is the greatness, and power, and glory, and the

victory, and the majesty; for all that is in the heavens and in the

earth is thine, thine is the kingdom, O Lord, and thou art exalted

above all. Both riches and honor come from thee, and THOU RULEST

OVER ALL. IN thy hand are power and might; and in thy hand it is to

make great and to give strength to all.



JOB 42:1,2: Then Job answered the Lord: "I know that thou canst do

all things, and that no purpose of thine can be thwarted."



Psalm 115:3: Our God is in the heavens; he does whatever he pleases.



Psalm 135:6: Whatever the Lord pleases he does, in heaven and on

earth, in the sea and all deeps.



Isaiah 14:24,27: The Lord of hosts has sworn: "As I have planned,

so shall it be, and as I have purposed, so shall it stand....For

the Lord of hosts has purposed, and who will annul it?

His hand is stretched out, and who will turn it back?"



Isaiah 46:9-11: "Remember the former things of old; for I am God,

declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not

yet done, saying, 'My counsel shall stand and I will accomplish my

purpose, calling a bird of prey from the East, the man of my counsel

from a far country. I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass;

I have purposed, and I will do it. "



Jeremiah 32:17: Ah Lord God! It is thou who hast made the heavens and

the earth by thy great power and by thy outstretched arm! nothing is

too hard for thee.



Daniel 4:35: All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as

nothing; and he does according to his will in the host of heaven and

among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand or say

to him "What doest thou?"



Matthew 19:26: "...with God all things are possible."









Sincerely,



James

Post Reply



View Profile
History
Scripture List: Unconditional Election
Posted : 2 Feb, 2011 08:37 PM

"A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position"



You tried to substitute Whosoever with the analogy of someone with ten million dollars and since there is no one here with ten million, then obviously man doesn't have the ability. You tried to say his position was the same as your example.



I provided a different analogy using the same structure as yours that supported his argument.



My point is that your comment in no way supported your position or refuted his.

Post Reply

klmartin62

View Profile
History
Scripture List: Unconditional Election
Posted : 3 Feb, 2011 01:39 AM

Both sides can post scripture, the true doctrine is the one that can reconcile them all. Otherwise you are saying the bible contradicts itself.



Leon

Post Reply



View Profile
History
Scripture List: Unconditional Election
Posted : 3 Feb, 2011 06:26 AM

Shawn67,



I REPEAT......



JUST BECAUSE A VERSE HAS THE WORD "WHOSOEVER" IN IT DOES NOT PROVE ABILITY!!!



IS THIS TRUE OR FALSE SHAWN?



You sound like someone who has at least memorized the name of a few logical fallacies, so let me ask you this:



What do you call it when a person posts THIRTY Scripture verses posting a position, and then another person posts a verse that has the word "whosoever" in it, to prove that man HAS the ability to come to God on his own????



Here are some verses that say that fallen man Does NOT have the ability:



Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.





Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.



1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.





In Christ,



James

Post Reply



View Profile
History
Scripture List: Unconditional Election
Posted : 3 Feb, 2011 07:07 AM

Shawn and Hilltop :applause:



James and Leon--- as usual all you want to do is :boxing:



Why is it anytime anyone points out valid points concerning your posts about YOUR doctrine (which many on this forum disagree with)you always fire back nonsense and seem to question their intelligence?



Why is it all I'm getting from reading anything you guys write is the feeling that all you're interested in is getting others to hop onto your Doctrine theory and agree with every word you say?



If they don't you accuse them of not being as Smart as you THINK you are.

Post Reply



View Profile
History
Scripture List: Unconditional Election
Posted : 3 Feb, 2011 07:11 AM

Well here is the simplicity, of believing any scripture James. it does prove the ability if you believe it, So you have said you do not believe it, so what is your point, That others should believe you and leave God!!

Post Reply



View Profile
History
Scripture List: Unconditional Election
Posted : 3 Feb, 2011 07:47 AM

Chevy74,



You said:



"Why is it all I'm getting from reading anything you guys write is the feeling that all you're interested in is getting others to hop onto your Doctrine theory and agree with every word you say?

If they don't you accuse them of not being as Smart as you THINK you are."





James replies:



Find where I accuse anyone of not being Smart.



What I AM saying, is that they are CONTRADICTING Scripture right after they read it!



Jesus says, "NO ONE CAN COME TO ME UNLESS.."

And Paul says "THEY CAN NOT..."



And then RIGHT AFTER READING THAT THEY SAY...



"NO, ANYONE CAN COME, WE ALL HAVE THE ABILITY..."



This has NOTHING to do with intelligence, and it has everything to do with just ACCEPTING what the Bible says!!



We are dealing with Christians who REJECT what the Bible plainly says, BECAUSE THEY DON'T LIKE THAT PART!



And this is NOTHING NEW. I can show you quotes from Preachers going back hundreds of years, who dealt with the SAME THING.



Romans 9 is Paul TEACHING the FACT that God is the one who has CHOSEN a particular people for Himself, and that it is NOT based upon anything a person would do, and then some Christian will contradict the Bible and say, "Well, God just looked into the future and saw who would have faith."!



It is Christians rejecting what is PLAINLY said in God's Word.



In Christ,



James

Post Reply



View Profile
History
Scripture List: Unconditional Election
Posted : 3 Feb, 2011 07:56 AM

No Leon it is people rejecting what you said Paul said, that is the point, no we are rejecting the will of god concerning but rejecting, Calvinism's twist of Romans 9.

Post Reply

klmartin62

View Profile
History
Scripture List: Unconditional Election
Posted : 3 Feb, 2011 08:07 AM

You keep saying that, but you haven't been able to reconcile Romans 9 to your belief. If you cannot, then it is the belief that is false, not the scripture.

Post Reply



View Profile
History
Scripture List: Unconditional Election
Posted : 3 Feb, 2011 08:28 AM

Ok I am game here, I will stick my neck out.

What would have happened had Saul----- ( paul) refused jesus on the damascus road?



What about the jews they are Gods chosen people. They chose to reject God and the church was adapted in?



What if I decided to follow Jesus but I am not the elect?

Then am I wasting my time?



Leon and James I ask you these questions.

I am curious.

Post Reply

Hilltop

View Profile
History
Scripture List: Unconditional Election
Posted : 3 Feb, 2011 10:10 AM

Hebrews 11 vs 31: By faith the harlot Rahad did not perish with those who did not believe, when she had received the spies with peace.



Verse 32 thru 38- trials of Saints of old-



Hebrews 11 vs 39 : And all these , having obtained a good testimony through faith,did not receive the promise,



40: God having provided something better for us, that they should not be perfect apart from us.

Post Reply

Page : 1 2 3 4 5